Dave B

Well, my car is officially slow now. It was never that quick, but now it's just sad. I got pumped to go racing tonight because the weather was nice 70-60 degrees, lower humidity (50-60%) and decent pressure (30.00). I was running at my normal track which is KCIR and is at 1100' above sea level. Full interior, 1/4 tank of 92 octane, warm/hot engine on every run. No real cool downs.


The results you've all been waiting for:

15" rims (42lb combo) in the front 26psi, CAI pipe with resonator with HKS foam intake:

Run #1 14.691@95.64mph with a 2.325 60'
Run #2 14.665@94.64mph with a 2.230 60'

15" rims (42lb combo) in the front 26psi, CAI pipe with midpipe with HKS foam intake:

Run #3 14.742@94.69mph with a 2.269 60'
Run #4 14.881@95.41mph with a 2.454 60'

17" rims (42lb combo) in the front 32psi, HKS intake with midpipe (hybrid):

Run #5 14.649@94.33mph with a 2.234 60'
Run #6 14.816@94.38mph with a 2.289 60'


Well there you have it, slow Maxima. As far as I can, various intake setups don't mean jack crap and 17s of the same weight seem to suck out about 1mph in the far end with little or no change in ET. All my 1/8 mile traps ranged from 75.3mph to 75.9mph. Spin into 2nd has been really bad and is probably hurting me a little. Compared to my prior bests, both of which are 14.451@99.51mph (50 degree weather) and 14.451@96.95 (85 degree weather), I'm loosing about 2-3mph somewhere. On two runs, I flipped my manual MEVI switch at 5300rpms in 2nd and left it open the whole run. There was no real difference in ET/MPH vs letting the RPM switch do it's thing. I confirmed the Harlan was working and could hear it. The swapping of intakes without letting the ECU learn might have been a bad idea and some will say the ECU doesn't learn at WOT, but either way I tested them all against each other and there was no real measureable difference. The only difference being the car had been driven with CAI/resonator for the past 1.5 months.

One thing that might be slowing me down is octane. When I've ran my 14.4-14.5s@97+mph and even 14.6s@94mph in 100+ degree weather (same track), I was running the equalivant of 95 octane or so. Since the JWT ECU advances the timing, I typically run on a hot motor, and I have only run 92 the last two times at the track maybe I'm getting some detonation in 2nd and 3rd gear. Just an idea.

After getting home, I took off my MEVI cover just to make sure all the butterfly valves were attached. They were nice and secure. I did notice a very slight buildup of oil residue where the cover seals to the manifold (front side). I tightened the bolts down to around 12 ft/lbs and put a little liquid gasket in the seam. I doubt this was causing any problems. I then proceded to reinstall my hacked airbox with midpipe since that's the setup I've always run best with (since the intakes don't matter). I then proceded to somehow shear the wires off the intake temp sensor so I had to do some repair and soldering to give it life again (I hope it works). I guess the wires just got old and decided to break off, right where they attach into the flange.

While working on my car I was listening to the Cubs game. So sad and I feel really bad for the guy that got in the way of the foul ball last night. I think his night was a bit worse than mine.

Tonight sucked.


Dave

Nealoc187

iTrader: (23)

Sucks that your trap speeds were so varied on the first 2 sets of runs. I was hoping to glean some useful info from your back to back runs with resonator and without, but with a full mph variance I don't think anyone can make a conclusive statement.

The runs with 15's vs 17's are nice data for those wondering how much an increase in size but not weight will hurt them.

Dave B

I forgot to mention that I had run at another track a few weeks back I was running the same ETs/MPHs except my 60 foots were pretty sad with tons of wheel hop. I was running with the CAI/resonator at the time. 60-70 degree weather, 1100', etc.

Tonight a few of my other friends showed. Two were in Contour SVTs, one was basically stock and the other had a 50 shot, y-pipe, exhaust, intake, ECU, LSD, and some other goodies. The stock SVT Tour was running 15.6s and the nitrous'd SVT ran 14.8s last I saw. He was having some problems with the nitrous in the upper gears. Another friend showed up in his 02 GT with 4.10s, X-pipe, MAF, and a few other things. He was running consistent 14.0s@100mph with 2.1 60 foots. The real winner of the night was a friend in his Buick GS (SC 3800). He ran a personal best of a 13.8@99mph with a 2.1 60'. His mods were a 3.2" pulley, ECU, intake, simple exhaust tweak, headlight yanked and 110 race gas.



Dave

meccanoble

iTrader: (22)

so basically, CAI and hybrid, and your resonator setup pretty much all will give same timing, maybe .1 difference if that?

Dave B

Not even .1. From what I can tell, there's absolutely no measureable difference.


Dave

Nismo87SE

Dave you've got some seriously heavy 15in wheels. I have oem 15in with 205/50-15s and they are only 36lb, my sister's mx6 wheels are 36lb with 205/55-15s, while my uncle's 91se with 205/65-15 are 38lb. Also Dave you should consider getting an OBD-II scanner so you can log the engine sensor's during 1/4 runs. I'm betting the hotlapping is what killed your times. Myself I've seen around a 2 tenths and 1-2mph difference between a 170-185*F run vs 190*F+.

Nealoc187

iTrader: (23)

How much does an OBDII scanner cost? I'd like to start logging my runs as well and this will become more important as I start to run spray.

MrEous

iTrader: (11)

I think a better test for the intake mods would definitely be a couple of dyno runs.

1/4 mile times will ALWAYS vary as it is very difficult to get the same type of run in. I know you used 2 runs per setup but there are too many different things that can happen.

Maximum96

iTrader: (2)

if i was you, i would lose that foam filter and get a K&N, i also have a CAI, so i will get the K&N that is long but skinny, 3in wide all around and 6in long, might help bring in more cold air

I30tMikeD

iTrader: (8)

About the same times I was running last week at byron, same 1/8 and 1/4 trap speeds. I am not pleased either, and can't for the life of me figure out why I am running so slow.

I did a comparison of rear wheel weight and found no difference when reducing my rear wheel wegiht by 40lbs!

Dave B

I've been seriously considering on removing my MEVI and just running the JWT ECU. My MEVI hasn't done much for me and I think most of my gains have come from my JWT ECU. At least with the stock manifold I would have better torque and possibly a better setup for drag racing. I rarely exceed 85mph on the highway so what's the point of the MEVI for me? In the same conditions less the MEVI and ECU, I've run consistent 14.7s@95mph. It's all just disappointing. I'm going to yank my plugs tonight and see if anything looks odd. I tested my vacuum and it was a steady 19.5 hg which is normal for my car.

I really wish I could afford something else right now. I may go drive a MazdaSpeed Protege this weekend just to see how I like it.


Dave

Dave B

I've reverted back to my old favorite setup of a hacked airbox, K&N panel, and midpipe.


Dave

Dave B

I see what you're saying, but between 6 different runs with the same shift points, trap speeds changed very little and neither did ET assuming the 60' was similiar. The point was just to test if there is a huge difference between setups. From what I saw, there is no real measureble difference. 5 out of my 6 runs were within .14 seconds and 1.3mph even with 60 foots that varied by nearly .08 seconds. I've seen that much variation running the same setup all night long. Look at run #2 vs run #5. Two completely different setups of intake and wheels yet nearly the same exact ET/MPH.



Dave

Str8ridin

What kind of times are you expecting Dave B? And I would assume 1100 feet above sea level hurts a .2 -.5 off of your time?

Dave B

I was expecting at least a low 14.5 or 14.4 at 98+mph. I didn't come close to that. My car has done better in much hotter weather. 1100' sucks out about .2 and 1.5mph.


Dave

RastaManMax

iTrader: (5)

The Mazdaspeed Protege is pretty sad... Well in stock form anyways, go check out the Neon SRT-4, that's a beast and it seems as though they're holding up pretty well to being modded... The Mazdaspeed may be quick once you add a few mods, but those same mods on the SRT-4 will net in a far faster ride...

LEMAR

billy_corgan

I just replaced my midpipe with the stock resonator. Wow, you are right about it feeling a lot more powerful. I know the car is pulling harder.

MrEous

iTrader: (11)

Very true...I was noticing the little variance between those times as well.

billy_corgan

Even though there wern't many runs to work with, I averaged out all of the runs:


15" rims (42lb combo) in the front 26psi, CAI pipe with resonator with HKS foam intake:

14.678 95.140 2.278


15" rims (42lb combo) in the front 26psi, CAI pipe with midpipe with HKS foam intake:

14.812 95.050 2.362


17" rims (42lb combo) in the front 32psi, HKS intake with midpipe (hybrid):

14.733 94.355 2.262






Even though your times were very close together. The resonator-CAI pipe-foam filter looks like it is further down than the rest.

I think you can at least say the resonator-CAI pipe-HKS intake is better than the midpipe-CAI pipe-HKS intake.

Nismo87SE

I have the auterra dyno-scan OBDII logger and I believe it was $300. Also you might want to look into this it offers more features than a standard OBD-II scanner and its pretty nifty.

kingrukus

iTrader: (41)

Good. I was a little worried as to removing my stock setup and replacing it with my frankencar. Now that I know that the performance benefits of one intake vs another is simply an illusion, I have no more worries.

KsuMax

Dave - Kcir just sucks. I though you were thinking about getting drag radials or slicks. I don't think you should get rid of the mevi.

Dave B

The calculations and comparisons are pretty cool, but keep in mind my 14.8s were because of significant wheel spin in 1st and 2nd gears. It wasn't a lack of power, it was a lack of traction.


Dave

BEJAY1

iTrader: (19)

Sorry to hear about the tough runs Dave. One thing I didn't have time to try was swapping ECU's between cars ie. me, Neal, Mike, etc. last weekend. We still might do that on a dyno day if we get the chance. Guess I'm happier with my 14.7 now (USIM & stock ECU)

What's worse than listening to the Cubs? Being there

SteVTEC

oh wow!!!! That thing rocks!!!!

Yeah Neal, Ari and I both have the Auterra OBD-II scanner. Very very nifty! You can do stuff like this.


http://mywebpages.comcast.net/stevte..._HSauterra.jpg
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/stevte...scan_Excel.jpg

SteVTEC

Dave

Just a few notes.

From my OBD-II scanner, timing will get pulled on even the stock map in heat-soak conditions with as high as 93 octane. So every little bit of octane can help when you're dealing with heat soak. Since the JWT ECU advances timing you would definitely want to run as high of an octane as you can get, but not race gas (100) or anything.

Don't get rid of your MEVI. Just get a set of DR's and launch at 5k. I think maybe the USIM is better for street tires because you can't launch at high-revs due to traction and you need the extra torque to pull you out of the hole. With DR's you'll be able to launch at much higher revs and keep them there, so the MEVI would match up better with DR's possibly. You go to the track so much anyways, why not invest in a set of DR's? You won't be complaining about poor 60 foots and lack of traction then.

I30tMikeD

iTrader: (8)

The ECU/VI set up has given you good results before (14.4), so why are you so down on it now. Maybe your just missing something that is hurting your performance. I still have yet to see 98-99mph traps and a low 14 sec time with my set up

Dave B

My track's season is over at the end of November. My car has till November to get it's act together

I guess I'm a bit upset with the MEVI setup because it really hasn't seemed to help me much except give me some wild trap speeds which looks cool, but really isn't getting me to the end of the track any earlier. Prior to the MEVI/JWT, I use to get pretty consistent 14.7s@96mph with a few upper 14.6s@96-97mph in sub 80 degree weather. Now with the MEVI/JWT I'm getting pretty consistent 14.5-14.6s@97mph with two 14.4s@99 and 97mph respectively...until recently where I've started running worse. I can't help, but think the MEVI's lack of torque is biting my car in the ***, 1/4 mile wise. I think the ECU alone is responsible for most of my gains. I also really can't use the MEVI to it's topend advantage because the only place I exceed 85mph is on the track. I've never even wound out 3rd entirely. I really liked the torque of the US spec manifold. I'm probably just talking crazy because I'm disappointed.


Dave

Dave B

Nismo-

That is a pretty sweet OBD-II scanner. I just don't feel like paying $300 for it....yet.


Steve-

Thanks for the info on the heat soak. I'll keep that in mind. Like I said, the times I've hit 14.4-14.5 is when I was running about 3 gallons of 92 and 2 gallons of 100 which comes out to around 95 or so.

As for drag radials, BSwithTF is coming to my track in November and he's going to let me run on his 24" BFG DRs. We'll see how it goes. The short 24" tire should definately help torque multiplication assuming the tires stay glued to the track.


Dave

BSwithTF

iTrader: (8)

Throw my D/R's on when I come up in November. Then you'll know for sure.

meccanoble

iTrader: (22)

cleaned my K&N filter, my cold air intake will be going in between next week and the week after. This thread just made me happier to have mine.

1st gen frankencar blue midpipe with stillen filter for sale soon.....

kingrukus

iTrader: (41)

Why are you selling your frankencar for? I see a lot of f/s with frankencars...I bought mine a few months ago and have yet to install it. Makes me think something fishy is going on with these particular intakes.... (though I have heard rumors of certain welds breaking).

I30tMikeD

iTrader: (8)

I was saying the same thing last week. I was going to sell the VI and ECU and stop modding all together. It is really frustrating going to the track with Neal. He has the same mods as me and runs a half second faster. It really ****es me off......
I would be curious to see what would run with the stock manifold and JWT ECU. I would do it, but I am to lazy to swtich manifolds.

Dave B

You first

I30tMikeD

iTrader: (8)

I just might......

meccanoble

iTrader: (22)

the frankencar has been good to me but it doesnt have a hole for temp sensor so i wanted a PR CAI midpipe. found a PR CAI at a great price so just gonna install lntire thing.