My 95 SE w/110k miles will sometimes "clatter" when I start it after sitting 24 hours or more. The noise lasts no more than 1 second and disappears completely after that. It sounds almost like the racket a diesel engine makes on start up. I suspect that it is a hydraulic chain tensioner for the cam chains that suffers from "bleed down" overnight, but am not certain since I am new to these cars.

If it is the tensionser, what can be done to help it maintain it's hydraulic pressure when the car sits for 24 hours? If I do nothing, will I see some kind of catastrophic failure soon?

I didn't notice this for the first couple of weeks becuase the car was hard starting under these conditions and it was always cranked long enough to build oil pressure. I've now run a couple of bottles of Techron thru it and it starts easily (thanks, DB Martin for the suggestion), but the easy starts have uncovered this weakness.

Speaking of oil pressure - Why didn't Nissan equip these cars with an O/P guage? Does anyone have a 'factory looking' installation recomendation for adding a guage?

TIA

 

Mine has done that since it was only about a year old ( I have a 95 GXE 5 speed). In the winter, I use synthetic to help it. BUT synthetic drains from the engine into the pan faster than conventional oil. So if your car sits a lot between start ups, I'd use 10w-30. After 100k miles and that noise all these years, my car still pulls hard! so don;t worry too much about it...

 

When the engine is running the oil pump draws oil from the sump and sends it
upward through passages called oil galleries to cool and lubricate all the
internal moving parts of the engine. When the engine is turned off,
gravity will cause the oil in the galleries to flow "backward" through the
oil filter and return to the sump unless something prevents that. The
anti-drainback valve is a one-way valve (a "check valve") which prevents
this from happening.

If the filter has a leaky anti-drainback valve the galleries become empty
when the engine is not running. When the engine is started it takes a few
seconds for the oil pump to refill the galleries. During that refill time
the engine parts, especially the valves, make an unpleasant knocking,
clicking, or clattering sound. This symptom is more noticeable after a
long period of rest, 24 hours or more.

Oil filters made for use in an inverted or horizontal position have an
anti-drainback valve. This is true for ALL brands of oil filters. The
difference (if any) from one brand to another is the material used and the
quality of manufacturer. Any individual filter might have a bad
anti-drainback valve.

The filter media, bypass valve, and anti-drainback valve are all internal
parts of the oil filter. Therefore an oil filter is a "blind item"
because the user cannot judge the condition or quality by sight, sound,
smell, taste, or touch. When buying a blind item we make purchase
decisions based on "image" factors such as the influence of advertising and
brand loyalties. Choosing a good filter is further complicated by the fact
that the same product may be sold under several brand names. Filter brands
A, B, and C may be identical except for the brand name and exterior color.
The supplier for filter brand D might be the same as brand A for this year,
but be changed to brand B next year. Industry insiders will know about
this but most consumers will not.

If your engine exhibits the symptoms of a bad anti-drainback valve you
should replace the filter. You might try a different brand of filter but
(as explained above) it might turn out to be an identical product. I
personally do not believe in the inherent superiority of the factory part
but respect the opinion of those who do.

 

Thanks. The car does need an oil change - so I'm hoping that will quiet it down a bit.

I've only had this car about 3 weeks and I am really enjoying it. These things are rockets. I find myself driving 85 where I'd normally drive 60 just because the car is so competent and comfortable at those speeds. Just got a set of Sumitomo "SRIXON4" tires and new KYBs. From what I've read, I've gotta have a strut tower bar next.

 

My car does this too.
I have used different oil filters and the problem continues.

The sound is reminisant of rocker arms.

Will a oil additive/cleaner help this?
If so which brand is best.?

Thanks, E

 

There is a TSB about the chain rattling at startup? There is a spring that should keep the tension before pressure is built up. I don't think that I need to tell you what happens if the chain skips.

 

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration maintains online databases of recalls and Technical Service Bulletins. Go to http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/proble...servicemmy.cfm

You will find this:

Service Bulletin Number: NTB96086
Bulletin Sequence Number: 61
Date of Bulletin: 9609
NHTSA Item Number: SB049475
Make: NISSAN
Model: MAXIMA
Year: 1995
Component: ENGINE:TIMING GEAR AND CHAIN
Summary: ENGINE TIMING CHAIN NOISE. *TT

Unfortunately, the TSBs are only in summary form. To get the full text you have to use a for-fee service such as AllData. For more information visit your local friendly Nissan dealer.

 

I use to have this problem also; more so in cold weather. Strangely enough, I haven't had it happen for over a year now. I still don't know what causes it. I did change oil filters though. I used to use Fram and Bosch. But about 6 months ago, I switched back to Nissan filter.

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Service Bulletin Number: NTB96086A
Bulletin Sequence Number: 139
Date of Bulletin: 0006
NHTSA Item Number: SB613975
Make: NISSAN
Model: MAXIMA
Year: 1995
Component: ENGINE:TIMING GEAR AND CHAIN
Summary: THIS BULLETIN CONTAINS A NEW TIMING CHAIR TENSIONER, TENSIONER GASKET AND GUIDE IF A RATTLE OF EITHER SEVERAL SECONDS OR CONTINUOUSLY IS HEARD COMING FROM THE AREA OF THE TIMING CHAIN COVER WHEN THE ENGINE IS STARTED AFTER A COLD SOAK FOR VEHICLES WITHIN CERTAIN VIN RANGES. *TT

WOnder how long an owner has to ask Nissan to fix a problem cited in a TSB? My car has 100K and is a 1995...would this TSB still apply to my car?

 

Nissan will issue a TSB if enough of the same problem crops up. They are designed to assist Nissan mechanics(oxymoron term here) limit their repair time by sharing information. They are by no means a RECALL item. Meaning the dealer is under no obligation to perform TSB repairs for free. If you car is still under warranty, describing the problem and also showing the dealer the proper TSB, might strengthen your case to get the repair done under warranty though.

 

There is no time limit.

Yes. A TSB is forever.


Let's distinguish between a Recall and a Technical Service Bulletin. A Recall is (usually) a problem related to safety or emissions. The manufacturer has an obligation to notify owners in writing. There is no debate with the dealer about whether the repair is needed, or who will pay for it. The repair is needed and Nissan will pay for it.

A TSB is the means by which Nissan notifies its dealers of a recognized problem and a recommendation for diagnosis and remedy. There is no formal notification mailed to owners. The repair may or may not be needed on a specific vehicle. The bill may or may not be paid by Nissan. There is room for the dealer to exercise his judgement.

 

Thanks for the explanation of the TSB/Recall Notice differences. I knew the difference, but this is a constant source of confusion among consumers. I will contact a Nissan dealer about 'the fix' prescribed in the entire bulletin, but I think I already know...remove/replace chains, tensioner, water pump, serpentine belts, ect. I'm guessing about $1500 worth of work at a dealer. Probably about 3-500 in parts alone. Does that sound about right to you?
I think that the fact that Nissan knew about this problem only 1 year after the cars hit the market is somewhat telling. I'd bet that cars started experiencing this failure at about 30-40k miles.

 

Yeah that sounds about right. Did you just buy the car from a dealer? You could ask them to help out?

 

I did buy the car from a dealer, but no way is he willing to help out. I stole the car for $6500- so I doubt that he's willing to lose any more money on it. Based on what I've read here, though, it doesn't sound like this will result in any major problems iminently. If it is not noisy after it has run a couple of seconds, I think I can probably drive it awhile just like it is.

I would be interested in hearing about anyone's experience who has taken on cam chain replacement themselves. Some cars have to have the engine yanked in order to do this. Others can be done with the engine in the car. I might be tempted to take it on myself, if it does not involve pulling the engine or exotic special tools.

 

According to the factory service manual the timing chain may be replaced with the engine in the vehicle. No special tools are required. The procedure involves many steps and will take many hours.

 

Here's the earlier 1996 TSB, the June 2000 TSB hasn't been posted yet. However, this should do for the time being.
-------------------------------------------------------

Timing Chain Noise
Classification:
EM96-006

Reference:
NTB96-086

Date:
September 11, 1996

1995-96 MAXIMA VQ30 ENGINE TIMING CHAIN NOISE

APPLIED VEHICLE:
1995-96 Maxima

APPLIED VIN:
Vehicles built before
JN1CA21D*TT159384, JN1CA21D*TT736598 or
JN1CA21D*TM417975
(depends on production line)

APPLIED DATE:
Vehicles built before February 2, 1996

SERVICE INFORMATION

A rattle noise may be heard from the front of the engine in the area of the timing chain cover. The noise may last for several seconds when the engine is started after a cold soak. In some cases, the rattle may occur continuously. A countermeasure (C/M) timing chain tensioner and guide is available to resolve this incident.

The C/M timing chain tensioner plunger bore is inclined at a slight angle to improve the air bleed from the bore. This new C/M tensioner and guide should be installed as a set whenever repairs are performed on the slack-side guide.

SERVICE PROCEDURE

1. Verify the engine noise is coming from behind the timing chain cover area and occurs under the conditions described above.

2. If the noise is verified, removal the old tensioner and check to make sure the oil feed passage to the chain tensioner is clear. Apply shop air to the oil filter mounting stud to pressurize the oil system. Cover the oil feed hole on the front of the block with a rag to catch any oil that may be blown out of the oil feed passage. A steady stream of air from the chain tensioner oil feed hole should be noted.

NOTE :If the oil feed passage is not cleared by this method, then the oil feed passage must be cleared before installing the new tensioner and guide.

3. Install a C/M timing chain tensioner and guide as a set using the parts listed in the Parts Information table.

4. Allow the vehicle to completely cool down and retest for the noise.


PARTS INFORMATION

DESCRIPTION PART # /PFP QUANTITY

Tensioner, timing chain 13070-31U02 1
Timing chain slack guide 13091-31U01 1

CLAIMS INFORMATION

Submit a Primary Failed Part (PFP) claim using the following coding:

OPERATION OP CODE SYM DIAG FRT PFP

RPL Front Cover/ AG14AA ZL 69 7.6 hrs. 13070-31U02
Chain Tensioner/
Tensioner Guide

 

This is just my guess. Hell I don't even own a VQ but IMHO(from my VE experience and teardown), I think most of the problem is 1) the tensioner gets thin and then noisy 2)a lack of lubrication is inhibiting the proper operation of the guide assembly.
Now on my engine, there is a super small oil feed hole that lubricates the assembly. If this small hole gets plugged, I can see how the assembly might get worn and or noisy. You could try an engine flush. That MIGHT clean out some of the clogged oil gallies and quiet down some of the noise. Redline and Amsoil offer engine flush products.

 

Thanks. It's kind of odd that they tell you to go to all of the trouble of clearing the oil passage and do not recomend summary replacement of the tensioner and guide. If you've got the thing completely apart, you might as well replace those parts - unless they're brand new. 7.6 hours, huh? I wonder how much additional time to replace chains along with the tensioner?

 

I asked Nissan dealer about this TSB and if they would cut me a break on this.

They said they could change out my Timing Chain at a cost of around 1800.00 dollars.
and NO they wont cut me any deals because of the TSB.

So anyway I sent corporate a email asking for their
opinion.

I will wait and see what they have to say.

E.

 

Exactly how much of a problem is this? I've noticed a little clatter in mine after it sits for a while sometimes, but only when it's cold. There is no way that I would ever spend $1800 to get it fixed, as I am a poor college student, but I want to know whether I should lose any sleep over it.

 

It could be a very big deal (new engine?) if the chain jumped one or more teeth on the sprockets. However, it sounds like a sizeable percentage of the higher-mileage cars have this problem and no one here has reported a catastropic failure like that. It just drives me nuts to hear mechanical disharmony and I may eventually fix it just so that I KNOW it will last another 100k.

 

Well I received a reply from Nissan Corporate.
They want more Info on my car, local dealer,and they
want to talk to me via phone.

Can anyone help build my case.
I'm thinking of tring the defective part senerio.
Does anyone know how long a Timing Chain will last before
needing replacement? an average?

I'm not looking for a free ride on this, just wanting them to work with me on cost of repairs.

We will see I guess.
Any reply's are welcome.
Thank you, E

 

Hi, I'm trying to keep this forum at the top for a little
while.

Does anyone have any ideas on my previous post.

Thanks for any reply's, Eric

 

Are you certain the chain itself is worn - or could it be simply the tensioner/guide like the TSB suggests?

I appreciate your 'testing the waters' with Nissan on this. The fact that they are even discussing this with you is pretty amazing.

Keep us posted on the outcome.

 

mrgem, When I took my car to the local dealer asking about
the TSB they gave me this snow job how I should change the
Timing Chain because they were working around the Chain
anyway.

I said, ok makes sense how much are you going to charge me?

They say, Oh around 1800.00 dollars.

I say, Your kidding right? Are you not going to cut me a rate since the TSB indicates a defective part?

They say, We don't do that on TSB's 'Anymore'. Indicating they may have a new policy on how they handle TSB's
but I'm not sure.

So anyway back to your ?, I have no idea if Timing Chain has suffered any excessive wear due to the rattle at cold start up.

I do feel that the tensioner/guide is defective and causing undue stress to my chain on cold starts. Which could led to a more serious problem.

I plan on keeping this car for quite a while, as a matter of fact I'm so into my car that as of right now she's
getting all door dings removed. Can't wait.

Anyway IF (I know BIG IF) Nissan Corp. agrees with me I'm assuming they would only pay for the tensioner/guide if at that time I feel I should change the chain, I will, at
my cost I'm sure.

Reply's welcome, Thanks for reading. Eric

 

This type of thing can get tricky. I'm not sure what the mileage on your car is, but let's assume that Nissan concedes that their defective tensioner and guide should be replaced under full or partial warranty terms. There has to be a spec for slack in the chain itself.

What if the chain is out of spec? Will they attribute its failure to the faulty tensioner? Or will they simply tell you they will not install your 'free replacement' tensioner without replacing the chain-sprocket, etc?

Having been the general manager at Motorcycle dealerships, I can tell you it could go either way. It just depends on the individuals from Nissan that you are working with. One thing I can tell you is that they fear setting a precedent that could cost them millions. If they replace your tensioner and chain for free and some consumer-advocate organization gets wind of it and publicizes it...it could cost them a lot more than the $1800 for your car.

I'd say just keep probing -- avoid confrontation at this point. It could be that they'll work out a compromise where you pay for the labor and they pick up the parts... or they prorate the whole thing base on the car's mileage.

Let us know what develops.

 

OK I talked to Nissan Corp. and after going a few rounds
they said I was beyond my 60,000 warranty.
and offered no help.
Thing that sucks is I think this was going on when 60,000
mile warranty was still in effect, but I never went in
to have them check it because I did not know what I do now
and the noise disappeared do quikly.

So do yourself a favor, if you have any funky noises in
ANY car you own and that car is under the car's powertrain
warrenty miles, get it DOCUMENTED IN WRITTING at the dealers service dept. Whether they find something to fix or not.

Peace,E

 

Excellent advice. My wife's car's warranty runs out at the end of this month. I intend to drop it off during the next few days and complain about every single noise or other anomoly we've experienced. That way, even if something fails 6 months from now, I can prove that I reported it while the car was still under warranty.

 

my cousin max has some different kind of problem. anytime you leave it overnight in the cold, and try to start it it goes on shakes then cuts off. only way it stays on is if you press on the gas. i think this started after he started using regular gas. never was a problem in the summer. my brothers max doesn't have this problem and has 86k compared to my cousin 54k. probably the regular gas is the problem since my brother uses super.

 

Try a good filter before blaming the timing chain. Fram has a terrible reputation for anti-drainback valves. Their "Toughgard" line has a silicon valve and some other good internals, but still has cardboard end plates on the ends of the filter. Purolator "Pure-One" filters have the good silicone anti-drainback valves and are constructed very well... highly recommended. Of course the Nissan filter is a quality piece, and can be had for around the same price as the Pure-One.... which is around $5-6. I only use the Nissan and Pure-One.

Do NOT use the Fram. I've read several comparisons on the web, and all rated the standard Fram last. Cardboard end plates on the ends of the filter media, poor anti-drainback valves, and less filter media were noted as weaknesses. A VERY cheaply made filter.

 

Celica,
Maybe try a a new fuel filter,

btw- I just noticed I'm a Maxima Enthusiast now, Ha !

Good luck, E

 

Thank you all for the great information on this issue. I noticed this problem occasionally from day one and have now put 152,000 miles on the clock. At around 135,000 it would happen almost every time on a cold start. My fix was to use a three crank and quick shutdown during startup to limit the clatter. I've talked to my mechanic and he says this will be fine for now and just keep an ear on it. I've used Mobil 1 from day one and change it every 10K miles along with a Mobil 1 filter. Once the engine is warmed up, there is little noise from the timing chain.
I think I'll talk to my mechanic and acquire a quote to get this fixed since the parts are only $75.00 along with a new water pump which is in there somewhere. By the way, how long does the water pump last?
I keep thinking, damn what would it be like to have another 65 horsepower (255HP) in my current 5 speed. What a great ride the 2002 Maxima must be!

 

My 96 is just out of warranty. I requested that they replace my tensioner. They refused. Wrote a nice, formal, but strongly worded letter to Nissan. What now?

Ed

 

Well folks, the rattling timing chain got really bad at 157,000 and the wife would not drive it because of the possibility of trashing the engine. I had the timing chain, water pump, and front engine seals replaced for $950.00 (half of the dealer quote). My mechanic said it was not fun taking off the front of the engine, along with the oil pan and raising the engine up about four inches to remove an eight inch bolt. He took 1.5 days to complete and the rattle is now gone upon start-up. I'm on my way to 200 K.

Ed, I suggest you keep an ear on it and find a really good mechanic, not the dumb dealer guys. They mis-diagnosed my air bag computer, who knows what else some other poor fool will get caught.