i know theres a certain pattern to bleed abs brakes. mine does not have abs, is there a pattern to bleed non-abs brakes? also, if by chance i can tell the difference b/t the new and old fluid, how much should i pump thru each brake to ensure all the old fluid is gone?

PR, DR, PF, DF. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong but I think that's it.

i thought that was for ABS brakes.

I always do it in the order Terran says.... but I have ABS. Not sure if it matters as much if you don't have ABS. You'll see the color difference between the really dirty and new stuff - thats why some people use the blue (I think) brake fluid when doing this - so its obvious when the new stuff has made it through the system.

When I flush all 4 sides, I typically use one of the larger bottes of the Castrol LMA brake fluid... don't know the exact size of that bottle off the top of my head.

the big bottle thats almost the size of a 1 liter bottle right? since we're at it, which brake fluid should i buy. i don't have access to fancy blue color ones, just the ones kragen and autozone carry. i was thinking of buying valvoline synthetic blend.

Just looked it up -its actually 1 quart...so close to a liter.

it doesn't matter if you have abs or not as long as you're doing only the calipers, the order terran gave is correct. a slightly faster way to do it is to siphon off most of the old fluid first, refill the reservoir with new fluid then bleed, and add as needed. just did rear brakes and calipers (painted too) yesterday. i also got the "one man bleeder" from auto zone, worked just fine with 1qt. of fluid. up on stands and all wheels off, i went around twice just to get all of the old fluid out.

ABS or non it should be the same...the ABS system is independent of the normal brakes.

Couldn’t we empty the reservoir and fill it with fresh fluid like we do on the steering fluid?

NO...you would get air in the system, which you definitely do not want to do.

When we do a brake fluid flush, we'll first take most of the fluid out of the resevoir with a suction bulb. Then use a rag to wipe out the remainder and the gunk that collects on the bottom. Then refill with new and do the blleding process. If you don't wipe out the gunk that can collect in the resevoir, you end up running some of that through the system and it does not all flush out. There is still fluid in the body of the master fluid when you suction out the resevoir so you should not get air in the lines.

Do you have to take off the wheels when you bleed the brakes?

It helps access. Fronts, you can turn the wheels without removing them. Rears are more difficult without removing the wheels, unless you lift the car very high.

According to the 97 FSM, the bleed order is: PR, DF, DR, PF.

HELP! I think i may have ****ed myself up. the reason i was asking about the bleeding order was because i was painting my calipers and installing stainless steel brake lines. i figured since i have to take the old brake lines off anyways, i just took the calipers off to paint so i don't have to mask off the wheel well and rotors and stuff. long story short, i let the fluid drain out of each line by itself and the master cylinder reservoir is now empty. can i just refill with new fluid and proceed to bleed the system? or do i have to take the master cylinder out and bleed that first? i've never took that out before and not sure how difficult it is.

I did that a few weeks ago. I just refilled the resevoir and bled each caliper till no bubbles came out. The brakes work fine. However, there is a chance it won't work and then you'll have to bench bleed the master cylinder, which I've heard is not fun.

sh|t. how difficult is it to take the master cylinder out? the hayes manual should cover that right? i'm at work right now so i can't check.

The one man bleeder kit will help alot. It is basically a hose that fits over your open bleeded and then put the other end into a container of brake fluid. Just work your pedal up and down 6 or 7 times on each line and all the air should work out of the system. If not just repeat the process until you have a firm pedal.

i've bought a mityvac bleeder kit, the plastic one w/o a vacuum gauge, just so i can bleed it after i put everything together. it came with instructions to bleed the master cylinder too. i guess the hard part will be taking it out of the car.

Not to thread jack, but after reading this thread earlier today, I decided to bleed my brakes too. Man!!! I've had my car since 40k miles and now it has 167k, and I've never had it done, or done it myself. Needless to say, my brake fluid looked like coffee!! I have pics if someone wants to host them.

I’m curious. how does air get into the system?

His question was, "can you empty the reservoir and refill" I would say no as if you were to empty it, there is a chance that some air bubbles could be trapped in the system and could go to the brake lines.

When you read any procedure on bleeding the brakes, the book will always stress to make sure the master cylinder is topped off. I personally wouldn't risk the chance of air getting into the system...then you'll have to bleed them anyways.

thanks....

I've been told the Mity-Vac method is inferior to the pedal method. Go to a local parts store and buy a 1-man bleeding kit (less than $10). WHen you use the Mity-Vac, you are sucking the fluid out, so a proper seal is essential and usually difficult to obtain. By contrast, when pumping the brake pedal you are pushing the fluid out, and so a good seal isn't important. I just bled my brakes today with the pedal method, and I own a Mity-Vac. My $0.02.

As for the inquiries about air getting into the system: When you disconnect a brake line, air gets into the system. What I did today was I siphoned the old fluid out to the "Min" line and then filled with new stuff. This way, you don't go low enough to introduce air into the MC, and you don't have to push extra fluid out of the system either.

Mike

i took out the master cylinder earlier tonight in attempts to bench bleed it. the mityvac manual said to plug 3 of the 4 fittings and suck fluid out of one of them. my problem is, i don't know what to plug them with. and if i fill the reservoir with the MC on a vise, wouldn't the fluid just leak out of the fitting by itself? that was what lead to my original problem. i guess what i'm trying to find out is how to properly bench bleed the MC.

also, i forgot to look earlier and i've already put the MC back on the car for now, but is there a gasket? i'm not sure i saw one but somehow i remember there might be one.

morning bump for help