I have a question: "are clear tails really illegal at all?" State or federal? Wheres the section? Anyone got it?

Shingles said:
Ok, here ya go:

http://search.yahoo.com/bin/search?...f+motor+vehicle

I'll take 5 singles, Shingles.

Many people SAY that the law says this and that, and other than my post, no one seems to have the reference to it.

(BTW, I thought that maxima.org was a public NG where anyone can post anything anywhere provided they stay inside the rules of the forum??? Maybe not...)

If anyone can post a section or reference to a state or federal law that says that clear tails are not allowed, please post them.

I personally don't care if someone gets em and puts em on or not. Fine. Whatever. You want em? Put em on, I'll help ya. Enjoy your ride and your mods. Diff'rt strokes 4 diff' folks. Have a good day.

Jack

 

$5 please.

NYS refers back to the DOT regulations. As per the Code of Federal Regulations, Title 49, Part 571 Table 3:


Table III--Required Motor Vehicle Lighting Equipment
[All Passenger Cars and Motorcycles, and Multipurpose Passenger Vehicles, Trucks, Buses and Trailers of Less
Than 80 (2032) Inches (mm) Overall Width]
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Applicable SAE
Passenger cars, standard or
multipurpose recommended practice
Item passenger vehicles, Trailers Motorcycles (See S5 for
trucks, and buses subreferenced SAE
materials)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Headlamps..................... See S7.............. None............. See S7.9........ J566 January 1960.
Taillamps..................... 2 red............... 2 red............ 1 red........... J585e, September
1977.
Stoplamps..................... 2 red............... 2 red............ 1 red........... SAE J586, February
1984.
High-mounted stoplamp......... 1 red............... Not required..... Not required.... J186a, September
1977.
License plate lamp............ 1 white............. 1 white.......... 1 white......... J587, October 1981.
Parking lamps................. 2 amber or white.... None............. None............ J222, December 1970.
Reflex reflectors............. 4 red; 2 amber...... 4 red; 2 amber... 3 red; 2 amber..94f, January 1977.
Intermediate side reflex 2 amber............. 2 amber.......... None............ J594f, January 1977.
reflectors.
Intermediate side marker lamps 2 amber............. 2 amber.......... None............ J592e, July 1972.
Side marker lamps............. 2 red; 2 amber...... 2 red; 2 amber... None............ J592e, July 1972.
Backup lamp................... 1 white............. None............. None............ J593c, February 1968.
n signal lamps............. 2 red or amber; 2 2 red or amber... 2 amber; 2 red SAE J588, November
amber. or amber.4.
Turn signal operating unit.<SUP>3,</SUP>& 1................... None............. 1............... J589, April 1964.
<SUP>4</SUP>.
Turn signal flasher........... 1................... None............. 1............... J590b, October 1965.
Vehicular hazard warning 1................... None............. None............ J910, January 1966.
signal operating unit.
Vehicular hazard warning 1................... None............. None............ J945, February 1966.
signal flasher.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Go to www.gpo.gov, scroll down to quick links, click on Code of Federal Regulations, click Code of Federal Regulations again, go to Title 49, and click on the blue date. Go to Volume 5, Chapter V, part 571, standard 108. The regulations for lighting and reflective devices on automobiles is there. ALL states MUST conform to the DOT's rules, so this applies to you whether you are in Florida, Texas or Maine.

 

hmmmmmm. what did i say??
thanks medicsonic......

 

You're welcome. That's why all aftermarket lighting equipment that doesn't meet DOT regulations has a disclaimer that states "THIS EQUIPMENT IS FOR SHOW OR OFF-ROAD USE ONLY", which I guarantee comes with this disclaimer if you but it from a business. Notice that the turn signals in the front do not have to be amber/yellow, only reflect yellow or amber and have a amber/yellow bulb.

 

You basically said you were an idiot...

 

PM each other with the insults please. Can someone put this 'are clear tails legal?' on a FAQ?

 

man, your just a little *****....
your the kid that kept saying show me, show me the proof...
so wheres the money you owe shingles kid???

 

Medsonic, first off, thank you for posting a reference. It was a real law with references on how to get there. Thanks for your help with that.

Now, I went there and read it. Man, the thing goes on for days. What I got out of it was this:

You must have 2 red taillamps.
You must have 2 red stoplamps.
You have to have red reflectors and amber reflectors.

Now I admit that you have to have the reflectors, sure, but does it say that the LENSES have to be red, or just the LIGHTS, meaning that RED BULBS and clear LENSES are ok, or not? Its not clear to me what it says here. It'd take a lawyer to say for sure.

I just don't see how clears are not legal. They make a red light like the law says to.

Jack

 

But the fundamental problem is that they don't reflect red, making them, just like the clear turns in the front, illegal. You are right on the lamp vs. lens thing though. Every passenger car on the road reflects those two colors when light is shined upon them, even if the do have clear turns, like the last gen Chrysler Town and Country, or clear tails (does any car actually have these)? The IS300 comes close, but not quite.

 

thank you for confirming exactly what I said about the red reflectors.

First: stop insulating each other... last time I saw that I was in 3rd grade.

Secondly: No the lense doesn't have to be red. I suppose if you can get white to reflect red, then they can be legal. the problem is most all clears do not relfect red... thus making them illegal. Simple as that.

Third: you can buy them if you want... you asked about legality you were given. If you have so much doubt or want to insult anyone that is giving you advise... don't ask.

 

I never "isulated" anyone.

Funny, you didn't say that before...

So if you PUT a RED reflector ON the car, one on each side, it'd be legal then, right? I saw a car here in town that had done just that. Little squares of that thin reflective tape, one on each clear taillight.

Go back and READ my posts in the closed thread. All I wanted was the section # where it says its not legal. And I was not insulting anyone. I called Wicked1044 an idiot because he told me to stop posting in the thread.

At the time in that thread the "reality" was that clear tails are not legal, period. Now, its shifted to "well they don't reflect red, thats why". I was not trying to be a jerk yelling prove it! prove it!, but that is what you seem to have heard. Whatever.

There are so many false and half truths floating about email and Usenet, etc. I can win hundreds of dollars if I just forward this email to ten people, theres a new virus, yada yada yada, so asking for a simple statute is insulting? Sorry, I don't swallow everything I hear, and I tryed (and failed) to ask for it nicely, right?

You said you'd give 5 dollars to the first person to show that their state allowed clear tails. Did you read the one from MO I posted? What does it say? (Sorry if that sounds insulting to you)

Jack

 

Two on each side, you have to have 4.

 

okok im sorry i kinda started this crap whe i said i d sue ..but now i know that they might be illegal...soif they hit me i wont sue but ill rip them out of the car and beat there as* lololololol

 

just don't underestimate the other guy....

 

After all this, we all know that the higher paid lawyer always wins. It don't matter what the law says. (remember the lady that sued for hot coffee she spilled?)

I'd put some small red reflectors on the back and sides, Blackmax69. I can not believe that you can sue for hitting a car with clears. It makes no sense! Its as if to say, yeah the lights were a little 'pink' so I couldn't see the car at all, so I HAD to hit it! Theres plenty of cars and trucks here with no working brake lights. No ones bothering THEM...

I think you should rip em out of the car and beat em too, I'm sure that there's a justifiable beating clause somewhere...

Jack

 

I don't know if this will be of any use (or even believed) but I'll post anyway.

I work for an insurance agency. I'm the IT guy and know nothing about insurance. So I went down to our Personal Auto department and spoke with the department head.

She said that if you are hit from behind, then the fault is placed on the person WHO HIT YOU...EVEN IF you have clear tail lights.

She's been doing this for over 20 years now, so I trust her on this one. Now, I'm not going to make any claims as to the legality, cause I don't really care, nor do I want to get involved. Also, I would think that if you're taken to court, then the whole "who was at fault" answer could be changed. I just wanted to post a little tidbit from an insurance agent.

Enjoy!

 

BPinson, thanks for that info. I do believe you, and I'm sorry if I ever gave the impression that I didn't believe anyone. I was looking for info just like this. Just wanted to know the truth and not popular opinion, nothing personal.

If I worked in or near an ins co, I'd go ask just like you did to see, thanks again for checking.

Jack

 

Well, i work for a insurance company too in N.Y. state.
everyone knows that if your hit by someone from the rear they are at fault automatically.... but when you go to court it WIll come out that since the off road lights were put in against the law that the other guy is at fault. there have been cases like this before and the all come out the same way... go on the honda boards and ask some people who it happened too. also who are all these people you're talking about with their break lights out that aren't bothered??? you are looking really stupid....
again, you will get a ticket if a cop sees you with a burnt out light. and if you hit someone from the rear and you can prove their brakes lights didn't work you can sue them... you can't believe you can be sued for clears??/ man, how dumb are you that you cannot understand the if your lights aren't dot approved your car isn't safe for driving on public roads? pink lights won't hold you in court..

 

What ins co is it? What cases can you name? Who? When? What happened?
[quote]
but when you go to court it WIll come out that since the off road lights were put in against the law that the other guy is at fault. there have been cases like this before and the all come out the same way...
[quote]
Oh, so I hit a car with legal lights and its my fault, clears, and its mine... ok...
Sure, *I* look stupid, ok, I'll just TAKE YOUR WORD for it, dude! You wanna buy a bridge?
I can believe its POSSIBLE, not likely, and either way, it don't make good sense.
I'll just have to accept it on your say so. Thats all you have offered to this point. Clears are visible to me and I can see them day and night. Ever read the link to the MO state laws I posted?

*I* say the moon is made of green cheese!! Don't be asking me for any proof!

Jack

 

allstate agent...
names and dates i cannot give. i can get in trouble.
you come to the org asking for an answer and you were giving one. how many people does it take untill you believe them?? what are you going to need next??? proof from the government that an intake works??? people will give you answers to the questions you ask because they know the situation. you are just being a little fuc*
Are you coming to any N.Y. meets this year????

 

Sorry, SAILFUEL is not an answer...

 

bla bla bla

 

Most State laws state that the lamp must be red, they don't say anything about the lamp covers.

 

can't loophole red reflectors........

 

In all of this controversy, how does this affect the clearing out of the 4th gen tails?

Ie. If we remove that amber piece on the 97+ maxima tail lights and replace it with the white/clear reflector and the amber bulb, does this also count as an illegal tail light set up? We still have the red reflector that was originally there...

 

Matrix,
If you have red reflectors pointing back, and to the side and orange on the side in front, you should be fine (see posts above), or at least the actual FACTS revealed thus far support this. If you have clears, I'd get some small stick-on reflectors, otherwise, I'd leave the factory ones there. (Be sure if you have clears that are painted 1/2 red, make sure that they reflect RED, then you should be ok)

If anyone can name a real case where clears with reflectors added were used and a lawsuit was lost, I'd like to hear about it. ("cause I say so" is not what I'm looking for, but names of real people and times and cases)

I don't doubt that cops and judges interpret the law differently. (but I've not heard of any real cases like that yet) The law is pretty loose here. You don't get hassled by police here much at all.

I also can see an ins co trying to get out of paying for damage whatever way they think they can, don't make it right, or legal.

Jack

 

So does that mean, if i clear out my amber on the tails, I would not be able to have clear corners?

My current set up would be to just remove AMBER from the reflectors, not the red that is already there. I have a 97 so i dont have to do any painting at all. So I guess it would be safer to just keep the amber reflectors in my tails huh?

My only problem with this is that some (or a lot) of european cars dont have amber reflectors for their turn signals at all. They just use their red stop lights as turn signals. So in essence they only have red and white on their rears, and only reflect red, as i would if i removed my amber pieces from my tails.

 

Corners? the lights next to the headlights? They're clear from the factory. I don't understand.

A reflector is NOT the same thing as a lens! It seems you are getting them confused. A lens is just colored and can be amber or red in the taillights, a REFLECTOR is a PART of the lens, or even a part of the bumper in some other cars, that REFLECTS light when it shines on it. Like those round things on the back of a bicycle?

I don't think that there are any requirements to have any amber reflectors that face the rear at all. Just these:

* 2 rear facing RED reflectors
* 2 AMBER reflectors on the SIDE - one on each side
* 2 RED reflectors, one on each side.

Read the DOT post above to be sure, but I think thats what it says.

Jack

 

you don't need your yellow reflector in the back. it has to blink yellow when turning.
in the front you can use your clears but you need yellow bulds. (i have super white polargs in there but also i get pulled over for them)you also need a yellow reflector in the front, but if you have the diamond cut clears in the front with yellow bulbs it looks very good and very legal.
even with the regular clears if you have a yellow bulb in there i don't think a cop would notice you don't have the needed yellow reflector. all clear in the back is the problem. if you put red reflector tape on them i think there legal. but them there not all clear anymore....