Yeah, when my Dad's Park Avenue handles better than my 97SE something is up.

Since the car has 123k and I want it fixed for a while, I'm going to install the following fixes in one shot:
- Energy Suspension control arm bushings
- Pinion Rack Bushings
- Tie Rod ends (inner and outer)
- Lower Ball Joints

It seems a lot of people have these done, but nobody's had the decency to take pics and do a writeup. So I will, but first...

Questions:

- How do I install the lower ball ends? Suspension.com has them at $28/ea, and since the dealer only works with the control arm assembly I don't have any direction.

- Is is possible to pull/push the bushings out using bolts/washers? A guy did a nice job on the RX-7's rear suspension bushings using some fasteners and deep sockets to pop out the old ones and put in the new ones. Think it'll work for the Maxima's front bushings? Or is it simpler to have a shop press them in?

- Where do I get SSTs for adjusting the power steering rack tension? They are tools J43477 and J43687. I'd rather borrow but I will buy if it will save me money.

Dave

 

Your car wiggles cause your struts are probably shot. Why replace all the parts you metioned but leave out the most obvious? Unless of course you did already. A friend of mine replaced his GLE struts with my old SE struts and it works fine now. With his shot struts, when you puch down on either fender his car would bounce up and down for a good few seconds.

 

Done. Tokico Blues, 30k old. I replaced them for this steering wander issue back then (since it seemed to wander when going over small bumps) and it made no difference.

Dave

 

I read somewhere the lower ball joints cannot be changed on the 95+ models. So that leaves me with
- if it's possible to install/remove the bushings using bolts/washers/sockets
- where to buy SSTs

 

start with the easy stuf first:
-check your tires - old and worn tires or just cheap tires make a dramatic difference in handling, check the pressure too.
-check your alignment to make sure that things are within specs,
-check your ride height up front - use some tape measure and make sure that car sits evenly on both sides ( mine sits 0.25" lower on passenger side - i sure don't know why even with brand new springs and struts)
-check your sway bar and end link bushings - if they are old and worn -repalce them with ES bushings - they made huge difference with my car.
-as far as control arm bushings - i have no experience with , but in order to repace them you'll need to take the lower arm off the car , bring it to the shop and have those bushings pressed in on a press.
-lower ball joints are not replecable - some people have done that , but you''ll be better off buying new control arm - those are not more than ~$200 a piece
-check the rack and pinion bushings and replace only if there is noticable play in them

after you do all of the above and the car still drives like crap - get rid of it , otherwise the amount of stress and wasted $$$ to get it fixed, will impose great deal of frustration on you.

the 97 SE handles like crap stock or modified - enough said !!!!

 

( mine sits 0.25" lower on passenger side - i sure don't know why even with brand new springs and struts)
ya mine too, probably because the ground is uneven?
________
CharmingLady

 

no ,i have checked it on level ground few different times - all the fluids there , full gas tank , spare tire , nothing in the trunk and se still sits lower on passenger side front
the rear is dead even.

Nick.

 

Cars a designed to be driven. There is never a time when the car is driven without a driver. They are designed to be level when an average sized person is in it. Put a friend in the drivers seat while you measure. Then report back.

 

tru that

Nick.

 

I'm actually on a new set of Dunlop A2 Sport tires, and the 3rd set since the car has been having handling problems.

-It was recently realigned on a new Hunter machine. Naturally, it will get realigned again after doing this stuff.

-check your ride height up front - use some tape measure and make sure that car sits evenly on both sides ( mine sits 0.25" lower on passenger side - i sure don't know why even with brand new springs and struts)[/QUOTE]

Will do, but don't understand how it could affect steering wander.

That's been done for some time, and it made no noticeable difference when installed. The control arm bushings are ES and they were purchased back when I installed the SW bushings, but they've been collecting dust because of the labor cost.

Well I will investigate and see what can be done. I'll go to the hardware store and poke around in my socket set to see if I can find parts to fit the job. If I get it to work, I'll post pics and a parts list.

Yeah, I saw one for $100 on ebay and I'll hold off on doing that until I'm positive there is a need. Do new bushings come installed on the control arm? If so, then I can do this job even quicker (since I don't think ES bushings will be any different than a new stock bushing)

It handles a whole lot worse than when I got it 70k ago. The handling started getting squirrely about 40k ago, and driving my gf's 01 Eclipse proves the difference. I have an RX-7 for performance driving (I think calling a Max any kind of sports car is silly) so I'm looking to restore original performance for as long as possible, maybe another 100k.

I will also be checking the steering rack pinion tension, which affects the friction in the rack. But since that procedure pops the tie rods, I may as well change the ctrl arm bushings and tie rod ends too. The steering rack bushings are cheap, so it would be stupid to not change them when I'm in that far. The steering tension could be real tough since the pinion tension nut is butted up against the frame.

Dave

 

Well I had the job completed today. I went to a reputable independent mechanic and got raped for $713. They adjusted the rack, replaced both rack inner boots, and one of the rack bushings. I should have done the whole job myself and saved $700. Or used that money to buy a nice air compressor and tools. Right now I see it as money wasted.

The car drives well now - the correct tension range is 40-48lb, and mine started at 35-37. It is now at 47-48lb. It holds a line much better and rides more smoothly.

The cost was excessive due to the fact the pinion adjustment nut is located against the subframe, and the mechanic removed the subframe, y-pipe to get to it. Total billed labor = $421. In the TSB, the illustration shows the nut on the opposite (front, lower) side and easily accessible. Had I known the cost would even approach $500 I would never had done it.

To make things more sickening, they bought Kent-Moore tool #J35999 for $32 to measure the force. Don't ever buy this tool. It's a $5 fish weighing scale (complete with measuring tape) in a Kent-Moore box. I joked with the guy about needing one when we were planning this job over the phone, but sadly I was right. Go to Walmart and buy a cheapass 0-50lb fishing scale.

I feel badly ripped off by Nissan about now. There was no labor estimate associated with this TSB to even warn me of it. The adjustment works, and if you're serious about maintaining the responsive, smooth handling of your Maxima I recommend it. But, uh, watch out for your cornhole.

Dave

 

Condolences on the cost of fixing your wandering steering, but I'll bet the sweetness of the improvement will help take away the bad taste. I can't say the steering on my '96 with 102k miles is nearly as bad as what you described, but I've been trying to track down information on a TSB that is supposed to address adjustment of steering rack tension. I've seen reference to a TSB 98-081 Oct 98 "Steering - Pull or Drift" but I haven't been able to get access to the content. Is there any way you could help me out with the info in the TSB you referred to in your post above? I think I am going to need to be armed with good, clear information to get either the dealer or an independent shop to address this problem efficiently.

Assuming steering rack tension adjustment is the target for this overhaul, what list of other component replacements would you recommentd piggybacking on the disassembly labor that is required to address the rack adjustment? You mentioned steering rack boots but only one rack bushing? What other items would be prudent to do at the same time?

Thanks in advance for whatever you can provide.

 

good info, i have access to ALLDATA at school , i will look for more info on this TSB.


Dgeesaman- don't feel bad - we all have been there before - it hurts when you have to drop lots of $$$ on the table , and than realize you could have done it yourself.
But if the car rides nice now - i think thats priceless.

so is this adjustemant even possible for home mechanic ?
I have access to lift and power tools ,

Thanks

Nick.

 

The huge labor was due to the time-consuming nature of getting a rack tension adjustment, plus it required the removal of the Y-pipe and subframe to gain access to the rack adjustment nuts. Nothing a DIY couldn't have done, but expect to take more than a day in case you have trouble. Just borrow a quality rod-end popper and get a spring scale. The TSB gives NO indication whatsoever that it would require dropping the frame and exhaust. In the TSB illustration, it appears that nothing needs removed.

Other items:
- Both steering rack bushings (I informed them there were 2 and they still only did one)
- Install Y-pipe.
- Steering rack boots (I actually asked for new CV boots but they replaced these instead - why can't ANY mechanics follow directions? Or call me if they're unsure?)

Other stuff like control arm bushings, tie rod ends, CV boots are not a bad idea to do when the front end is taken apart, but I think in this case it doesn't save a lot except maybe an hour of labor and front end alignment. I have a set of ES control arm bushings and used control arms left over which weren't replaced, in case anyone is interested.

Well, yeah, having a car that rides well is nice, but not $700 nice. I do not have much extra money now, and that puts me down on the paycheck-to-paycheck level for another couple months. I guess I'll have to sell one of my airguns or something.

 

I went back to the shop and discussed the billing and labor. They put my car on the rack and both me, the service manager, and mechanic reviewed things.

1) They did replace both rack bushings. The bill only mentioned one, but they showed me both old bushings.

2) They attempted but were unable to get the 2 SST wrenches used to adjust the rack nut. So without these low-profile wrenches, they needed more space to access the adjustment nut. Dropping the exhaust and frame solved this issue.

3) The exhaust and subframe were dropped to access the pass. side rack bushing, boots, and heat shield. Replacing the rubber parts probably consumed as much labor as all the rest of the work - I only figured an extra hour of labor. IMO working from both above and below would have avoided removing the frame and exhaust, but on my car the ABS piping makes it a *****. I have a hard enough time replacing the fuel filter, much less reaching down below it.

4) the CV boot vs. rack boot mistake was a miscommunication. I think any shop could have made this mistake, esp. considering the CV boots weren't as convenient as I though they would have been.

5) All five shops (including 3 dealers) only found the old TSB (98-081) when they looked it up in their computers. Only when I alerted them to the existence of a newer TSB (00-037B) did they find it. I was not aware of a difference in rack setting between them until later, and neither was the shop. I blame Nissan for that one - it is still not clear if the newer TSB supercedes the older one, and nobody can find it.

I will try to get these SST wrenches and perform the adjustment again, myself, to set it to the 99 spec. I'll also install new lower ball joints, control arm bushings, and CV boots. I will take digital pics and document this for the common good, since I firmly believe this rack adjustment is very significant on all 95-98s. And it seems most of the writeups here are about clear corners and intakes.

 

(Just as a belated followup for the handful who use the search function)

Well I think I fixed my problem: it was the front sway bar.

I don't think any shops have touched it - but I have replaced the bushings, etc a couple times and I don't think I had the bushings seated and retightened properly until today. The trick was to rest the front control arms near the ball joints (with the wheels off) on a 8" stack of 2x10s. This loads the suspension and puts the sway bar in a neutral position. I then lubed the bushings with PB Blaster and tightened the end link bushings and frame bushing brackets to factory torque spec. With the suspension loaded, the bushings fit in much more easily than in previous attempts, and the PB blaster really helped them to squish into place properly. In the past I suspect that tightening some/all of the bushings without lube or suspension load caused the bar to hold some torque or not do its job consistently.

The car now handles better both on the highway and windy roads - it used to go off-line whenever there was a bump or uneven part of the road - such that I had to correct it instantly. Now the car holds it line a whole lot better, without any push or pull.

Dave

 

good point with Sway Bar bushings, I have Energy Suspension Poly bushings installed and i still have to figure out the best torque settings for those. Keeping in mind - those ES bushings are much more stiffer than OEM, thus they shouldn't be tighten up as much as the OEM ones , there is risk of breaking the bushing link off when torqued down too much.

there is fine line with those - too loos will give you loose/sloopy road feel , too much will improve steering feel - but bump steer and road feel will be more present.

Nick.

 

Dgeesaman - how much thread is " sticking" out of those sway bar links after you have torqued them down to specs? , and are you using OEM rubber bushings or ES polyuetherane?

thanks

Nick.

 

and is it ok to torque them down with the wheels on and car sitting on level ground?

I can reach behind the wheel with open end 14mm wrench.


Nick.

 

I have mostly ES bushings - except one of the swaybar mount bushings is OEM now. (The ES one pinched through). I'm using the stock torque specs - I think the difference is that I wasn't able to reach the end link nut with the wheel pointed straight ahead - I was turning the wheel to get access before, and the mount screws were fully tightened in advance. I guess there is 1/4" of thread showing now at the end link, but torquing to spec and good lubrication IMO is the critical part.

Dave

 

Wow great thread, I got this problem this week:
Steering wheel wanders & moves on its own.

Pretty sure its my,
right lower control arm bushing and rack & pinion.
Sears said with alignment, it would run around 250$

Don’t know a good price or where to go by me.
I must fix it soon , cant even drive properly now!

 

Rack&pinion replacement is $$ ($250+ for the part, plus a few hours of install labor).

Lower control arms aren't so bad - and very good thing to replace. See if you can get the parts off eBay.

Dave

 

Whats as TSB? sorry...

 

Technical Service Bulletin - Issued by Nissan (in our case) to identify common problems and their associated fixes/workarounds, etc.

 

Oh thats right! i just havent seen it written for a while.

 

Copied from the other thread:

That's interesting. I replaced my front sway bar bushings recently (including end-links) and have no problems. They were easy enough to install with the suspension unloaded. I didn't tighten them to factory torque spec because the nut kept turning but it wasn't getting any harder to turn, so I just tightened it until it looked like it did before, with a bunch of thread on top.

Nick, good idea, I should just try tightening the endlink nuts with the car on the ground.

 

I'm still chasing this issue.

Last spring I replaced the lower control arms, inner tie rods, outer tie rod ends, lower ball joints, and put in Energy control arm bushings. The car handles pretty well, but the steering is still very lively, to the point that holding my lane on a less-than-perfect highway requires concentration. I can drive those same roads in my gf's 01 Eclipse with one finger on the wheel - the difference is her steering wheel doesn't turn quite as easily, so it holds its line better. My car is up to 138k, and the steering gets livelier as it gets older.

I had a local garage run by autocrossers take a look at it. They recommend changing tires - he felt that the 225 width would be enough to want to wander a little on the road. He also suggested to try running 5psi more and 5psi less to see if either of those helped. I trust his judgement that a narrower tire will want to wander less, but I don't think he really considered the steering rack sliding force that is in the TSB.

On smooth, flat pavement, the car handles great. The linkage is very well connected. But any unevenness that make the tires want to change direction, and I feel it through the wheel - to the point that I can feel the wheels wanting to change direction before they actually change the direction the car is going. No other car I've driven transmits so much sensation and and so little resistance.

I have decided I will attempt to adjust this rack myself per the TSB. I think that by removing the rack bushing bracket on the driver side and the tie rod end, I can swing the adjust nut away from the frame enough to access it. I might need to fabricate a tool to do it, since the Kent-Moore tools are so pricey, but I need to access the bugger to figure out what kind of tool I need to make. I figure if it works out ok, I can advance the adjustment nut 1/8th turn at a time and repeat the procedure until it's better.

If anyone has a used/old/dead steering rack removed from the car, I would be forever grateful if you could that adjust nut and what size tool will fit it. It has both an external hex nut and an internal 8-point socket which looks like a regular square socket might fit.


Dave

 

If you're going in there you should seriously consider upgrading to a '99 steering rack. I know it's a pain in the @ss but it couldn't be too hard if you remove the engine and removing the engine is pretty easy. Given how much you've done to your car you should consider it. Either that or just sell the '97 and get a '99. My car has 85K and the steering is extremely responsive; in fact I'd call it perfect. I've never had a complaint with alignment or steering. Just all the damn rust. My car has broken so many tools....

When I put on 235 series summer tires (17x8 rims), I noticed a big difference on some of the roads near me that have significant depressions in the asphalt from traffic. On those roads the grippy wide tires have a mind of their own, but it's something I quickly got used to and it doesn't sound nearly as bad as your problem. The wider and grippier the tire (and also certain tread patterns will be worse), the more you'll have this issue. I don't mind it in the slightest, and on the freeway the steering feels excellent.

 

Thanks, thats a consideration. I don't have a crane to pull my engine and a small garage, so if I did it I would stick with replacing the rack the conventional way - remove the steering rack brackets, which requires removal of the y-pipe and lower engine support beam. Then I think I'd go for a used '99 rack. However, I only began to notice this lively steering around 80k miles, and it steadily got worse over the last 60k.

I think I'll try to adjust my rack first - no parts cost, less labor, and maybe it will be fine in the end.

Dave

 

dgeesaman - how is the ride with the Tokico Blues? harder or softer than your stock SE set up? there's a few of us on here that are looking for a softer more comfortable ride than stock, and are considering the Blues. My '99 SE is a bone jarring, harsh ride on the Chicago streets and I need something softer than stock to make it bearable.

hope you figure out that steering thing.

thanks.

 

I thought the Blues were a little softer than my stock SE dampers. Probably similar to stock LE/GXE dampers.

Dave

 

Oh, well, removing that subframe beam is quite easy, I did it in May when I replaced my motor mounts. The hardest part is getting the right combination of extensions and swivels so you can remove the rear mount-through bolt. Otherwise it's as simple as putting a jack under the tranny/engine to give it some support and removing bolts.

 

WOW after reading all this I have to say I am beyond confused. My 95 at 113K moves around ALOT. I can't stand how lose the steering wheel is. So adjust the "rack" will help? What is the TSB?

 

It's not hard, but it's a little awkward. And yes, I found an 18" extension was just long enough to reach through that wheelwell to get the rear mount bolt.

My reluctance is about the y-pipe, since it's rusted good and every time you work on parts like that the risk of breaking a stud or something gets greater.

Dave

 

There is a huge difference between lively steering with little resistance and steering that is actually loose.

If you can hold the wheel perfectly still, and the car can change direction in any way, it's not a rack adjustment issue. Don't worry about the rack tension adjustment until you're sure every part of the front end is tight and solid. That includes ball joints, wheel bearings, control arm bushings, sway bar and bushings, inner tie rods and outer tie rod ends, rack bushings, and the steering rack itself.

Dave

 

You still have your stock Y? If so you will definitely break the bolts due to rust. An exhaust shop will torch them out for $10-$30 and then you just put a regular bolt and nut in its place. That's what I did for both Y-pipe and catback.

 

not true. I replaced mine on my 96. pull the clip off, press the old ones out, press new one in, use new clip, reassemble.

easy as pie

 

to improve steering feel, try replacing your power steering fluid...

 

Yep, I figured that out about 12 months ago

Dave

 

I fixed it for real.

Waaaayyy back, when the car had 90k on it (I'm at 143k), I replaced the stock struts with Tokico Blues. I did not replace the mounts, (they looked good), but I did pick up some Suspension Techniques springs (1"-1.5" drop) just for the heck of it. After installing them, the ride didn't seem much better. Different, but no better. Fortunately I never pitched my stock SE springs. Over the last few years it's only gotten worse (or maybe just more annoying).

Last night I reinstalled the SE springs and put in new strut mounts and dust boots. Wow, what a difference, those Suspension Techniques springs were utter crap. Yeah, my front end rides 3" higher at the moment (it's still settling in), but it holds a line and corners much better. No doubt, the ST springs are much softer and with less preload, allowing much more body roll than the stock spring, so when I went over bumps the car couldn't hold a line - hence my issue with bump steer and constantly needing to make steering corrections.

I suspect my tire wear will improve, now that the front wheels are much more stable in corners. Going around on-ramps at 60mph, the tires gripped silently, where before I could feel them gnawing for grip. That might help explain why they never lasted more than 25k, even with good alignment.

So if you have a crappy ride, consider if it's the springs.

Dave