I was in a little accident a last week, which messed up some of my rear suspension parts. Everything is fixed, but the alignment is real bad now. Took it to NTB thinking it would just be a simple alignment fix, but it turns out the camber for my front right wheel is way off.

Front right camber is -2.1, supposed to be between -1.0 and 0.5.
Front left camber is fine.

Front right toe is 0.20, factory spec is 0.05 to 0.14.
Front left toe is 0.47, factory spec is 0.05 to 0.14.

I'm not sure how important SAI and Included Angle is, but those are also both off a bit from factory spec also. Here's a picture of the alignment results:



They suggested taking it to an auto body shop, could they fix it? Not really sure what to do now.. Btw I have progress springs and illumina struts on 18's.

Thanks,
Dan

 

You can buy a pair of Eibach camber bolts (aka "crash" bolts) for $30-35 and use one of them in the for the knuckle-to strut mounting bolts to return the camber to spec. There are two on each side. Replace the top one with the Eibach bolt. Easy fix, for the DIYer or the mechanic.

edit: how come they didn't even bother to correct your front toe setting? Even if your camber is off why didn't they set it to spec for you for the time being?

 

why can't they do it??

 

Thanks VQ, will an auto parts store carry these camber bolts or do I have to order them online and wait?

I don't know. The guy basically said "it's ****ed", gave me the prinout and told me an auto body shop is my best bet.

Anyone know if I should worry about "SAI" or "Included Angle"? Could those be fixed along with toe?

Also another sort of unrelated question, I got some new wheels/tires put on a few days ago after one of my stock SE wheels got smashed up, and I was driving yesterday and suddenly my rear right tire deflated quite a bit. I drove to a gas station and got some gas put in and everything seems to be fine for now. I wonder if my alignment issues contributed to that.. or if this is a separate issue which has to do with tire mounting.

Thanks.

 

Body shops and alignment places can get ahold of these camber bolts, but they will charge you double for them. Just get them from southwestautoworks.com.

Re: alignment, every aspect of the suspension will affect how your vehicle tracks/steers, including the rear suspension. Your thrust angle looks to be fine (direction of the rear wheels pointing in relation to the centerline of the body) , but the rear toe on the passenger side is off??? You said the accident messed up your rear suspension parts, but its now "fixed"? What did you do/replace/rebend?

Now for the front. Re: SAI and IA, it is related to camber. Once they fix the camber then you can see if SAI and the IA are within spec. These are only measurements and cannot be "adjusted". If they are off after you set the camber to spec then something is bent in the suspension system. If one side's camber is way off like yours it will affect the SAI/IA of the opposite side as well. SAI angle affects how your car steers (like caster). On our car the SAI is measured from the top strut mount to the lower control arm balljoint. When you turn the wheel the car lifts a bit. It is done so the weight will push back down and help return the wheels to straightahead. When you look from the front the wheel and turn the steering wheel the tire/wheel will appear to be slanted (If you seen still shots of high performance cars like the M5/E55 AMG/etc taking corners hard note the front wheels. it will appear to be leaning heavily). This is also why when you have SFCs welded to your car you have to make sure the wheels are straight and dead center.

IA is basically SAI + camber. Your camber can be totally different on both sides but IA should be the same for both sides. If its off then most likely your knuckle is bent.

 

Right front camber at -2.1 says something is bent.

Instead of masking the problem with camber bolts, fix it.

Inspect the strut, lower control arm and knuckle. You can have a body shop with a Car-o-Liner (or similar system) pull a data sheet and easily measure the control points to find out what's bent. You can actually do it yourself, measure and check side to side to find discrepancys. You don't need a data sheet, just make sure right and left sides are equal. Measure from the lower control arm, center of the ball joint to a specific body hole in the subframe or chassis. Measure the exact same two spots on the left and right side of the vehicle. You can tell if a wheel is pushed back, forward, in or out and identify what is bent with a little common sense. Take a few measurements from different bolts, nuts or holes on the underside of the car. Use the exact same spot, ie center, front or back side of a bolt head, nut, or hole on each side of the vehicle. Use a metric tape measure, pull it straight and tight for each measurement you take. Have a friend help you. You can do this with the car up on ramps, wheels on or the car up on jack stands, wheels off. Measurements from side to side should be within a mm.

 

The main thing which got replaced from the accident was the rear beam. I'm also not exactly sure what other parts they replaced, but it was some other parts in the rear suspension. The toe is off in the rear, but isn't toe something which can be corrected as a fairly normal procedure in getting an alignment done? If it's not, then damn. The body shop used used parts for the fix, since I didn't go through insurance, maybe one of the used parts is bent?

Thanks for the idea Tom. The weather is not so great around here this weekend, so on Monday I think I'll just have a mechanic look at it. Give him the sheet, and tell him something has to be bent in the front right, and see what they can find.

Until then I'm going to try and minimize the driving.. I'm probabaly causing a lot of stress driving too much with everything so out of spec. The car pulls right like a ****. Also one other thing: The alignment was already real bad before I had my little accident, and I can tell afterward (after the car got fixed) it got worse. So all the alignment problems didn't come from the accident.

Thanks again VeeQueue & Tom, really appreciate the help.

 

The rear suspension is a unit, with the trailing arms welded to the beam. There is no adjustment available to correct the toe (or the camber). If its off then the part is bent. Looks like they gave you a damaged beam. I'm assuming that you wanted them to use second-hand parts, because you didn't go through insurance. If you can afford it then get them to replace the used beam with a new one. It will cost more but if you plan on keeping the car for awhile you will end up spending more money replacing tires and never be satisfied with your car due to handling/ steering issues. Also you can be most certain that the new one is not bent and will be within specs once installed. Good alignment shops can adjust the front alignment settings to offset the rear's misalignment but they can only do so much.

How much was the used beam? Some discount online Nissan parts stores have them for under $365 and once in awhile one or two of them will offer free shipping on everything they sell (freight can be a killer for the entire beam). Maybe have your local dealer match the price on the beam so you dont have to worry about shipping and get the new part installed onto your car.

 

Eh They charged a total of $800 to get a used beam, and all the other necessary used parts to fix up the rear suspension, and put on my new wheels and labor. So according to my right toe, the beam is bent? So basically that would mean the $800 repair job was sort of useless. I'm taking the car into a highly reputable auto body shop tomorrow which does everything. I guess I'll just see what they have to say tomorrow, I'm sure I'll be spending much more $$.

 

The beam is definitely bent since the measurement is beyond the specified/acceptable range. My right rear wheel/tire's been curbed very hard by myself and other drivers before and my rear toe is still in spec and pretty much mirrors the rear left side. There is an alignment shop in SoCal that specializes in bending the Sentra's rear beam for guys who track their cars and want less toe-in. Maybe this new shop can figure out a way to bend it back for you. If not see if you can work things out with the first shop to get a good beam installed. You spent way too much $ to end up with a bent beam. If they sourced the part usually they or their supplier will stand by them. In the past I've purchased steering knuckles and trailing arm assemblies for Hondas/Acuras to install myself and if I ended up with bent ones the salvage yards I dealt with always happily exchanged them for me. Hope its the same for you. Good luck with everything.

 

#1 make sure that shop bolted & tightened everything on the rear right. Maybe it's enough to loosen and rework some?

#2 try the repl new beam idea

#3 contact West End Alignment and see if they can help

 

Gonna take my car to this performance shop this week and hopefully get everything straightened out. The guy on the phone said since my right front camber is just about 2 degrees off from my left (and the left is within factory spec.), then there probably is a bent peice as Tom said. I guess the little accident I had, which bent my rear beam, also affected the front camber.

http://www.ultimatedc.com/services-alignment.html

 

Omg, NTB =

Apparently NTB read my car wrong, the performance shop I brought it to found both front cambers to be right around -1.0, and the rear was actually within spec. They did fix the left toe and rear toe some. Wasn't as bad as I thought

 

wow that -2 for NTB.

2nd thread I've read where NTB couldnt do an alignment. wong find me going there