afroken

the title pretty much says it all. my input shaft bearings are gone, and matt blehm quoted me $700 for a parts and labor rebuild. i been eBayin' and found some relatively inexpensive used trannys. i know that i can use a 5th gen 00-01 trans with lighter flywheel and 5th gen CV's (my current ones are going as well). my question is this: since 00-01 have the same engine as 02-03 i think, could i mate an 02-03 6 speed trans with my 4th gen. if so what all would i need to change, i.e.-clutch kit, flywheel, CV's, ECU? also if anyone has ever heard of this are there any cons, pros? i looked in the stickies and haven't seen anything.
thanks,
Phil

tavarish

iTrader: (27)

02-03's, (5.5 gens) have 3.5 liter engines, you have a 3.0, it would require some fabrication, and it wouldn't be as powerful as a 5spd would be. The 5spd is also built a bit better, from what I have heard.

vsamoylov

stick with the 5spd. less problems and your car will be on the road faster.

NmexMAX

iTrader: (22)

You thought wrong my friend.

krismax

iTrader: (15)

actually 5 speed gearing is slightly better (higher final drive) and i put a 01 tranny in my 96 direct swap ,i have a mag where nissan says the 00-01 trannys were made stronger.

also the 5 speed has less loss to the wheels so overall switching to the 6 speed would make your car slower .

Chickan

iTrader: (12)

it would require much more fabrication than what it would be worth. Get a 00/01

MainSource

He was saying that the 00-01 engines are not the same as the ones in the 02-03, which obviously, they aren't. Also, power and speed/quickness is not the same. I honestly doubt that your car would lose power, but it might be slower because of the gearing. Either way, it's a waste of time IMO.

afroken

yo thanks fo' the feedback guys,
im gonna either get the 00-01 or buy another 95-99 cause i found that i could probably get a used tranny for less than the $700 rebuild cost if i look hard enough, and besides, the tranny only sounds horrible and the clutch pedal is gritty, but other than that as is okay for now.
thanks again,
Phil

Fekz

try searching car-part.com You should be able to find some low mileage transmissions for about 500.

Ninos_Maxima

iTrader: (5)

yeah dont 5th gen 5spd tranns come with vlsd all the time also?

NmexMAX

iTrader: (22)

Not all, only 5g AE's and 4th gen I30 Canadian.

krismax

iTrader: (15)

Its a fact 6 speed trannys loose more hp at the wheels than 5 speeds so with nothing else changed your car will dyno less .simple math

larryseibel

iTrader: (8)

why do the 6spd lose more power at the wheels? everyone is rippin on the 6spd and saying it is a slowewr trans but wouldnt an extra gear give you a higher top speed? plus a slight advantage of a little shorter gearing for faster acceleration. maybe it weighs a little more but its still setup the same as any 5spd its just got an extra gear.

NmexMAX

iTrader: (22)

26lb flywheel.
Top gear top speed = crap to most people.
Better gearing yes, but that also equals more shifts

tomservo291

Six gears means the power has to be distributed through an extra gear ... correct? I know there is much more math to be done with the gearing ratios but generally speaking this is the concept ... even though 6th is probably a final drive ratio, 5th gear is probably different then it would have been if it was only a 5 speed; so this is still true somewhat.

This means you're utilizing power over a broader spectrum.

I.E. why a stone crusher in a an old muscle car is superior to a 5/6spd ... four gears means you go fast like WHOA.

krismax

iTrader: (15)

You guys keep saying it has better gearing it doesnt the 5 speed is geared lower.

Also the more and heveir moving parts the more loss to the wheels i could see you losing 3-5 whp using the 6 speed over the 5

NmexMAX

iTrader: (22)

If you have the torque ...

NmexMAX

iTrader: (22)

5spd, yes, It's geared lower, but still the 6spd has more agressive gearing,(lower gearing) but mechanically isn't as efficient as the 5spd is.

tomservo291

That's why I mentioned "old muscle car" of course

Used to have a '79 camaro with a crazy 350 ground up with a radical cam w/ huge bore and anything and everything you can imagine that a 850cfm edelbrock could utilize ...

Too bad that thing was a cop magnet, just starting it up they could hear it from the police station (literaly)

Too many tickets

NmexMAX

iTrader: (22)

That's why the L67 does so well with its tall geared 4spd.

Back On topic, the 6spd has better 3/4th gear but with it;s mecahnical loss greater .. IMO ... 5spd > 6spd. Unless the mechanical losses could be lessened ..

d00df00d

iTrader: (4)

In a manual transmission, all the gears are constantly turning (selecting a gear just picks which one is connected to turn the wheels). A 6-speed has more gears and thus more moving parts than a 5-speed. This means more mass in the drivetrain and more friction, both of which will hurt power transfer to the wheels.

Also, as you mentioned, 6-speed transmission will be heavier than a 5-speed (all else equal). This, combined with the disadvantages of having more moving parts, pretty much nullifies the advantages of having more gears and shorter gearing.

Case in point: Look up any press releases on the new Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution IX. There are three versions, and two of the three -- including the most hardcore performance-oriented one -- have 5-speeds.

You might get a slightly higher absolute top speed out of a 6-speed, but it's not really worth it. Our cars aren't made to be stable and have any meaningful power at speeds higher than what you can get with the 5-speed. Plus, always remember what a great car man once said: "If you're trying to get 6th gear, you're not having any fun."

The 5-speed for the Maxima is also mature and thoroughly proven, so you know it's gonna last. We have yet to see a lot of people drive 200k+ miles on their 6-speeds with no problems.

d00df00d

iTrader: (4)

haha, 7 postings by the time i finished mine...

vsamoylov

that is soo much whp that you are loosing. lol

d00df00d

iTrader: (4)

3-5 whp loss seems small, but it's 3-5 whp *everywhere* in the rev range -- not just at the peak. That's a lot less total power.

vsamoylov

i rather loose that 3-5 whp and get better gas mileage cause my car is a daily driver.

d00df00d

iTrader: (4)

You won't get better gas mileage tho. Since the power loss is due to the friction and mass of the extra moving parts (and not the engine tuning), you'll get worse mileage.

vsamoylov

yeah but see i use 6th gear o nteh freeway and that is where i get better gas mileage and i do alot of freeway driving. at 80mph, revs are at 2500-2700 which eqauls better gas mileage.

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

Some interesting posts here. You won't get a higher top end with the 6th speed unless your engine has the power to pull it in that high of gear. If the 6th speed has a taller gear in 6th, you WILL get better gas mileage. Because that advantage is greater than any small increased friction.

In theory, more gears the more torque mutiplication benefits. But each time you shift, you lose just a tad. That's why some cars are actually slower in the 1/4 as they sometimes have to get one more shift it before crossing the 1/4 line. Same with the 0-60.

The pain to get a 6-sp to work : not equal to the benefits it could give.

d00df00d

iTrader: (4)

Point taken. I stand corrected.





I thought that since the 6-speed had a shorter final drive, it wouldn't be much (if at all) taller in 6th than the 5-speed in 5th. Silly assumption to make without knowing the numbers...

But I think the consensus here is as follows:


6-SPEED PROS:

- Slightly better fuel economy at highway speeds
- More gears to play with


6-SPEED CONS:

- More shifting is necessary (partially cancels out shorter gearing)
- Power loss at the wheels
- Heavier
- No improvement in acceleration
- Not as well built as the 5-speeds
- More expensive
- HUGE pain to make work


I'm sure a complete 3.5 swap would be a different story, since the 6-speed was made for that engine and you'd already be doing a lot of work to make the 3.5 fit.

Dunno about you guys, but an '01 AE 5-speed seems like a perfectly good alternative for 4th and 5th gens....

gabex

iTrader: (2)

500 for a low mileage tranny on car-part.com ? where??

NmexMAX

iTrader: (22)

ALl over the place gabex.
doodfood, the 5spd actually has a very marginally lower final drive compared to the 6spd, so essentially they're the same.

1st 3.153 3.285
2nd 1.944 1.850
3rd 1.392 1.272
4th 1.055 0.954
5th 0.809 .795
6th 0.630 ---
FD 3.812 3.823

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

Nice. So since the 6sp basicly has 2 over driven gears, it's not really for performance. Fuel mileage mostly.

d00df00d

iTrader: (4)

Thanks for the numbers NmexMAX.

Yeah, it really does look like it's just got one extra gear for the highway and that's it. Also, the 3.5L has a lot more torque so it makes sense to have an extra gear with it (for speed, even less need for fine throttle control on the highway, etc.).

The ratios are a tiny bit shorter, but the gains from that are probably canceled out by the extra weight and power loss from the transmission.

So that pretty much settles it... unless you're absolutely itching for that one extra gear on the top, there's really no significant benefit to a 6-speed that would be remotely worth the time and effort to install it.

krismax

iTrader: (15)

Wrong how many times do i have to say this

NmexMAX

iTrader: (22)

Only 3rd would be noticeable.

larryseibel

iTrader: (8)

i think the most hard core evo is the evo8 mr edition which comes w/ a 6spd. has the aluminum roof and beat the regular evo in motortrend by a pube hair on the track. no matter...i am not trying to argue to put the 6spd in the 4th gen alls i am saying is that lets not rip on the 6spd. if the 6spd is such a disadvantage then every car company in the world would still be using a 5spd. any true sports car these days is available in a 6spd tranny.

d00df00d

iTrader: (4)

It does seem that any true sports car will come with a 6-speed, and yes, the Evo 8 MR does have a 6-speed. I was talking about the Evo 9 GSR (base model) and RS (more lightweight and hardcore), both of which will have 5-speeds, in order to point out that 5-speeds are preferable to 6-speeds for some sporting applications. The Porsche Boxster also has a 5-speed, I might add.

The fact is that a 5-speed is lighter and more efficient than a 6-speed. If you're not going for all-out top speed or super-tame highway cruising, or if your car has a nice fat torque band, a 6th gear isn't really useful and can be counterproductive.

You're right, tho... I guess it seems we've been a bit harsh. As far as I can see, the Maxima 6-speed has 4 advantages over the 5-speed:

1. It's nicer on the highway
2. It's more fuel efficient when cruising
3. The 3.5L V6 it came with is torquey enough that it will still pull above 5th gear if need be, so why not add another gear
4. It pleases the marketing people (6 is bigger than 5)

To be honest, it is irritating sometimes to hold your revs around 3k rpm on the highway with the 5-speed. I find myself trying to grab another gear just on reflex, and then realizing I don't have one...

That said, I would never do a 6-speed swap, but obviously that transmission has its uses.

vsamoylov

yes all of that is true. plus due to gas prices at least in cali where gas is almost $3 a gallon, i see a point in a 6 speed.

larryseibel

iTrader: (8)

yeah...i think its crazy that i can cruise at 80mph tacking a little over 3k and still get almost 30mpg! if only we had that extra gear gas mileage would be even sweeter! still not sold on the swap but not an all out far fetched thing. would be cool to see if its even possible...if the 3.5L has the same trans bolt pattern as the vq30 then the only problem would be the axles,flywheel and linkage. alot of car companies make the bolt patterns for the trans the same on a ton of cars. like GM has the same bolt pattern on most of its 4cyl and 6cyl engines. the 2.2, 2.4, 3.1, 3.4, and 3.8 all, in theory can use the same tranny.