Sounds like input shaft bearings are going -- how long can I drive?
10-02-2005, 05:59 PM
#1
Sounds like input shaft bearings are going -- how long can I drive?
I've been running a junkyard gearbox that always made a little whirring noise whenever I had the clutch out, even in neutral, but I figured that was just normal for a relatively high-mileage gearbox. It's only today that it's started to get really bad (having lost a lot of oil through a leaky axle seal certainly didn't help things).
From what I've been reading here, I'm pretty sure it's my input shaft bearings. Can anyone give me some kind of indication of how long I'll be able to run before it completely dies, or tell me about some warning signs so I can keep tabs on it?
From what I've been reading here, I'm pretty sure it's my input shaft bearings. Can anyone give me some kind of indication of how long I'll be able to run before it completely dies, or tell me about some warning signs so I can keep tabs on it?
10-03-2005, 04:33 AM
#3
Good to know. Thanks, Neal.
Is it normal for a gearbox to make at least some noise when you're just sitting in neutral with the clutch out, or should it be dead silent? You're saying thousands of miles "from the first indications of a problem", so I'm trying to figure out where to start counting.
Is it normal for a gearbox to make at least some noise when you're just sitting in neutral with the clutch out, or should it be dead silent? You're saying thousands of miles "from the first indications of a problem", so I'm trying to figure out where to start counting.
10-03-2005, 06:34 AM
#4
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 499
ive been going foreeeveeer
and im pretty sure it should be silent with the clutch out...like any other car right?
mine has lasted like 10k since ive noticed it...hasnt gotten worse just leaked my new oil out and makes the noise.
and im pretty sure it should be silent with the clutch out...like any other car right?
mine has lasted like 10k since ive noticed it...hasnt gotten worse just leaked my new oil out and makes the noise.
10-03-2005, 06:45 AM
#5
the problem with continuing to run on them is that the small metal particles coming off the bearings as they're chewing up will wind up in MORE bearings and do more damage.
If you change them soon, all you should have to replace are the input bearings and input shaft seal..
If you don't change them, you will wind up changing all 6 bearings (ROYAL PITA to remove the diff bearings), and do more damage to the synchros and gears from the tiny chunks of very hard metal floating around in the oil. it'll be like filling the tranny with sand..
so change them as soon as you can, before you do more damage.
as for "when do I HAVE to change it?"
three indications:
1. oil leaking from bellhousing. eventually the bearings will cause enough shaft play that the input shaft no longer seals.. you'll get stuff dripping form the bellhousing them. replace all bearings and seals.
2. nasty grinding noises. tranny may still work, but the bearing has completely self-destructed and the bits are getting stuck in the wrong places and grinding against moving parts. replace all bearings, seals, and any other collateral damage.
3. complete self-destruction. self explanatory. buy replacement transmission (again).
If you change them soon, all you should have to replace are the input bearings and input shaft seal..
If you don't change them, you will wind up changing all 6 bearings (ROYAL PITA to remove the diff bearings), and do more damage to the synchros and gears from the tiny chunks of very hard metal floating around in the oil. it'll be like filling the tranny with sand..
so change them as soon as you can, before you do more damage.
as for "when do I HAVE to change it?"
three indications:
1. oil leaking from bellhousing. eventually the bearings will cause enough shaft play that the input shaft no longer seals.. you'll get stuff dripping form the bellhousing them. replace all bearings and seals.
2. nasty grinding noises. tranny may still work, but the bearing has completely self-destructed and the bits are getting stuck in the wrong places and grinding against moving parts. replace all bearings, seals, and any other collateral damage.
3. complete self-destruction. self explanatory. buy replacement transmission (again).
10-03-2005, 06:56 AM
#6
Originally Posted by Matt93SE
the problem with continuing to run on them is that the small metal particles coming off the bearings as they're chewing up will wind up in MORE bearings and do more damage.
If you change them soon, all you should have to replace are the input bearings and input shaft seal..
If you don't change them, you will wind up changing all 6 bearings (ROYAL PITA to remove the diff bearings), and do more damage to the synchros and gears from the tiny chunks of very hard metal floating around in the oil. it'll be like filling the tranny with sand..
so change them as soon as you can, before you do more damage.
as for "when do I HAVE to change it?"
three indications:
1. oil leaking from bellhousing. eventually the bearings will cause enough shaft play that the input shaft no longer seals.. you'll get stuff dripping form the bellhousing them. replace all bearings and seals.
2. nasty grinding noises. tranny may still work, but the bearing has completely self-destructed and the bits are getting stuck in the wrong places and grinding against moving parts. replace all bearings, seals, and any other collateral damage.
3. complete self-destruction. self explanatory. buy replacement transmission (again).
If you change them soon, all you should have to replace are the input bearings and input shaft seal..
If you don't change them, you will wind up changing all 6 bearings (ROYAL PITA to remove the diff bearings), and do more damage to the synchros and gears from the tiny chunks of very hard metal floating around in the oil. it'll be like filling the tranny with sand..
so change them as soon as you can, before you do more damage.
as for "when do I HAVE to change it?"
three indications:
1. oil leaking from bellhousing. eventually the bearings will cause enough shaft play that the input shaft no longer seals.. you'll get stuff dripping form the bellhousing them. replace all bearings and seals.
2. nasty grinding noises. tranny may still work, but the bearing has completely self-destructed and the bits are getting stuck in the wrong places and grinding against moving parts. replace all bearings, seals, and any other collateral damage.
3. complete self-destruction. self explanatory. buy replacement transmission (again).
I have had a bad input shaft bearing for about 20,000 miles now...I didn't want to mess with fixing the bearing so i got a used tranny and just drove it till it broke.....Well saturday it broke,no first or second gear now.....They will go for a while before they break....Also by going the used replacment route you have less down time......
10-03-2005, 07:04 AM
#7
More big thanks to another big member! Cheers, Matt!
So it's safe to assume that I'll feel it in the clutch way before the tranny actually dies?
My clutch feels absolutely fine so far, so I'm assuming the problem just sounds worse than it is. Since I don't have another car to drive while I wait for bearings to be replaced, and since it'd be pretty easy for Tilley (TILLEYS99) to slap in another cheap tranny at some point, I had been planning to just drive this one until it's dead and then replace it rather than to get the bearings replaced.
So it's safe to assume that I'll feel it in the clutch way before the tranny actually dies?
My clutch feels absolutely fine so far, so I'm assuming the problem just sounds worse than it is. Since I don't have another car to drive while I wait for bearings to be replaced, and since it'd be pretty easy for Tilley (TILLEYS99) to slap in another cheap tranny at some point, I had been planning to just drive this one until it's dead and then replace it rather than to get the bearings replaced.
10-03-2005, 07:40 AM
#8
no, you won't feel it in the clutch at all.
you'll just hear the growling get a bit louder in low gears, then eventually you'll get used to it and forget about it.
the next sign you'll see is either SEVERE grinding noises or fluid leaking from the bellhousing.
at either of those points, it's time for a compelte tranny rebuild.
I highly suggest you start shopping for another tranny now, have it rebuilt with new bearings, then have it sitting ready for yours to die. it may be two days, it may be two years.
you'll just hear the growling get a bit louder in low gears, then eventually you'll get used to it and forget about it.
the next sign you'll see is either SEVERE grinding noises or fluid leaking from the bellhousing.
at either of those points, it's time for a compelte tranny rebuild.
I highly suggest you start shopping for another tranny now, have it rebuilt with new bearings, then have it sitting ready for yours to die. it may be two days, it may be two years.
10-03-2005, 08:57 AM
#10
Supporting Maxima.org Member
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Originally Posted by d00df00d
If fluid is leaking past the input shaft seal, though, won't it get on the clutch and make it slip more?
The clutch will get ruined when your rear main seal starts to leak and soaks your clutch.
-matt
10-03-2005, 09:14 AM
#11
Oh, yikes. It kinda complicates things if the only way I can tell is leakage onto the driveway, because I know I'm also leaking from my axle seal.
Time to buy a good jack and check it daily, I guess...
Time to buy a good jack and check it daily, I guess...
10-03-2005, 10:00 AM
#14
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 6,190
I would get it fixed ASAP before you are stranded on the side of the highway in the middle of nowhere. That happened to me about 16 years ago when my clutch went out on day 1 of a long weekend. I was told the clutch was going but I thought I could eke a few more thousand miles out of it. I was dead wrong! Stupid is a stupid does, lol.
10-03-2005, 10:40 AM
#15
Well, right now, all I'm hearing is either "you don't really have to worry about it until it gets REALLY noisy", or "you'll be able to go for a very long time without fixing it". I'm just waiting to hear from someone who'll tell me their tranny exploded a few days after they started hearing the noise.
10-03-2005, 12:07 PM
#16
Best thing to do is get the work done as soon as possible, I'm not sure about others but I'm only on this tranny still because I dont have all the money yet to get a new tranny and clutch, otherwise I'd be off this tranny and enjoy the smooth ride and shifting feel again.
10-03-2005, 12:17 PM
#18
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I would get it rebuilt or replaced asap. I let my second trans go for about 5k miles with it making noises. By the time I got it out, a couple of the bearings had most of the ***** missing out of them and there were metal shavings all over the inside. My trans was fine for quite a while then all of a sudden it started shifting different and was making some really nasty noises.
10-03-2005, 02:22 PM
#19
Originally Posted by Jeff92se
Ask yourself "Do ya feel LUCKY?" :d
I was kinda hoping it wouldn't come to that, but I guess that's how it is. Thanks for the
!In truth, if I weren't saving up for a 3.5 swap with a factory-fresh VLSD tranny, this wouldn't even be an issue. I was hoping to survive the winter like this and start the spring with 300bhp and better traction, but having to swap another tranny would kinda torpedo my plans, especially since I don't yet have the cash for the tranny I want....
Big, big thanks for the input though, guys. If it means anything to you all, your support finally got me off my lazy a$$ to donate.
10-03-2005, 03:51 PM
#20
Just to play the devils advocate for a second
.
You could try to milk it for as long as you could, examine your car look for wet spots, if it hasnt started leaking out, you could last a bit longer, bleed the clutch get all the old fluid out, adjust the grab point a little closer to the floor and just keep a real close eye on everything till you get the funds saved up. If you mean you'll have the funds in the next couple of years then dont do this.
.You could try to milk it for as long as you could, examine your car look for wet spots, if it hasnt started leaking out, you could last a bit longer, bleed the clutch get all the old fluid out, adjust the grab point a little closer to the floor and just keep a real close eye on everything till you get the funds saved up. If you mean you'll have the funds in the next couple of years then dont do this.
10-03-2005, 04:12 PM
#21
Good suggestions. I do plan to have the funds within a year, so I think I will try to postpone the repair as long as possible.
So far, the only leak I can find is from the passenger's side axle seal. New axles and a new axle seal are going in tomorrow, so I'll hopefully be able to verify that it's the input shaft and not the diff bearings (faint possibility, from what I hear). If it's the input shaft, I'll drive on it until it explodes (knock on wood).
Thanks. I'll definitely be keeping a close eye on it from here on out.
So far, the only leak I can find is from the passenger's side axle seal. New axles and a new axle seal are going in tomorrow, so I'll hopefully be able to verify that it's the input shaft and not the diff bearings (faint possibility, from what I hear). If it's the input shaft, I'll drive on it until it explodes (knock on wood).
Thanks. I'll definitely be keeping a close eye on it from here on out.
10-03-2005, 04:21 PM
#22
[]
adjusting the grab point and a bleed does wonder if your clutch really starts acting up, and feeling weird.
But hopefully it will aleast be a good few months before you'll have to do it again.
[/]
]adjusting the grab point and a bleed does wonder if your clutch really starts acting up, and feeling weird.
But hopefully it will aleast be a good few months before you'll have to do it again.
[/
]
10-04-2005, 06:42 PM
#23
Just had my horribly beat axles and right axle seal replaced. My mechanic cleaned the whole damn thing, so hopefully I'll be able to tell tomorrow whether I'm leaking from the bellhousing.
By the way... I couldn't find any non-GL5 gear oil in the right weight, so after I drained the tranny I refilled with 2 qts. Lucas Heavy Duty Oil Stabilizer and ~2.5 qts. 10W-40 Exxon Superflo motor oil. Total cost: ~$25. The tranny feels pretty darn nice, and the noise has died down a little. Unless someone has anything bad to say about using motor oil in a tranny, this might be a good alternative to GL-4 gear oil in a pinch.
If you do have anything bad to say about it, I made another thread about it: http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=432454
By the way... I couldn't find any non-GL5 gear oil in the right weight, so after I drained the tranny I refilled with 2 qts. Lucas Heavy Duty Oil Stabilizer and ~2.5 qts. 10W-40 Exxon Superflo motor oil. Total cost: ~$25. The tranny feels pretty darn nice, and the noise has died down a little. Unless someone has anything bad to say about using motor oil in a tranny, this might be a good alternative to GL-4 gear oil in a pinch.
If you do have anything bad to say about it, I made another thread about it: http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=432454
10-05-2005, 09:19 AM
#28
Are you sure it was just your axle seal that was leaking? You might have bad differential bearings in that thing too. If so, it will start leaking from that same spot in less than a couple of weeks. Good luck! A way to tell if you have that problem too is to get under the car and grab the axle on the side the transmission was leaking from. The axle should sit tight inside the transmission. If you can move the axle around where it sits in the transmission, then you have problems.
10-05-2005, 10:41 AM
#29
As I mentioned above, the axle seal was just replaced with the axles last night, and as of this morning there was absolutely no leakage around the tranny, so I'm assuming all is well. But thanks for the tip. I'll try it when I get home today.
10-05-2005, 01:08 PM
#30
I had a bad input shaft bearing on my 3rd gen when I bought it. It just gradually got worse and worse and finally one day it really bad and while in first gear taking off there was a "popping" from the transmission and it shifted a little more difficult. I drove it like that for about another week or two and there were a few more popping incidents so I replaced it with a low-mileage used tranny.
I drove the car initially for over 20,000 miles with a little bit of a whirring sound and didn't have any problems with it. If it's not grinding and popping or something I wouldn't worry about it too much. It will GRADUALLY get worse and worse so you will be able to tell if you pay attention.
I drove the car initially for over 20,000 miles with a little bit of a whirring sound and didn't have any problems with it. If it's not grinding and popping or something I wouldn't worry about it too much. It will GRADUALLY get worse and worse so you will be able to tell if you pay attention.
10-09-2005, 07:00 AM
#31
Well, the noise is getting ever so slightly louder each day, and it definitely looks like I'm leaking from the bellhousing. I also realized that my heavily worn front motor mount is probably not helping because it's permitting a LOT of engine movement.
It basically sounds like what would happen if you took a sound clip of the whine of a big supercharger and played it at 1/2 speed. If this thing dies, I'll be really screwed until I get it fixed. Guess it's time to fork over the bucks.
Polyurethane motor mounts + rebuilt VLSD tranny = wallet not happy...
It basically sounds like what would happen if you took a sound clip of the whine of a big supercharger and played it at 1/2 speed. If this thing dies, I'll be really screwed until I get it fixed. Guess it's time to fork over the bucks.
Polyurethane motor mounts + rebuilt VLSD tranny = wallet not happy...
10-09-2005, 09:49 AM
#34
After tearing down and rebuilding my trans now I've come to realize how incredibly simple it is to shim these bearings correctly (input shaft bearings). It takes like 10-20 minutes literally. I'd always figured it was much more complicated. It's ridiculous that Aisin (the company that makes our transmission, most toyota transmissions, and also the Evo MR 6 speed transmission) didn't shim these things properly from the factory.
10-15-2005, 04:43 AM
#35
BTW, in case this thread comes up in a search or something.... One thing I found helpful for a while was to overfill the tranny with gear oil a little bit by jacking the front of the car up as much as possible and then filling it. Since the fill hole is in front, tilting it that way lets it get a little more in. That seemed to dull the noises for a while.
I'm still waiting for Tilley to tell me whether he can hook me up. Anyone want to tell me not to just go to AAMCO if they give me the right price?
I'm still waiting for Tilley to tell me whether he can hook me up. Anyone want to tell me not to just go to AAMCO if they give me the right price?
10-15-2005, 07:15 AM
#36
Moderator who thinks he is better than us with his I30
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The noise comming from my input shaft bearing had gotten unreal in the last couple weeks. When I finally saw a drip comming from my bell housing I pulled the tranny. This is what it looked like. That is a whole lot of oil...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...d/118_1848.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...d/118_1845.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...d/118_1844.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...d/118_1848.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...d/118_1845.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...d/118_1844.jpg
03-30-2006, 07:20 PM
#40
mine started doing the same thing but never have any problems with it. I am sure you gotta a long time left.
Car-part have a couple VLSD's try getting a low mileage one.
dgeesaman rebuilds them and he is in PA give him a PM.
Car-part have a couple VLSD's try getting a low mileage one.
dgeesaman rebuilds them and he is in PA give him a PM.