Stock intake info and air filter follies.
09-11-2006, 04:48 PM
#81
Originally Posted by 95bluse
I'm quite sure there is no need to bypass that "resonator" under the battery. In fact, I'm sure it is not a resonator, but a catch can for water & debris. There is no noise reduction when this box is bypassed nor is there any loss of intake air "pressure" due to it. The box already has air in it with only one inlet, how or why would air be diverted to it? I fail to see the logic here.
Below is my crude diagram. I'd like someone to explain the advantage(s) of blocking it, apart from the fact that in a heavy rainfall, you'd like your airfilter waterlogged
========|| < hood scoop
..............||
..............||
............... ================ > plastic intake tube to airfilter box
..............||
..............|| <--- Elbow (where *****/can caps etc are inserted)
.......----- -----
.......|.............| <--- Reservoir/"resonator" only one inlet
.......|.............|
.......-----------
The "." (periods) are placeholders
Below is my crude diagram. I'd like someone to explain the advantage(s) of blocking it, apart from the fact that in a heavy rainfall, you'd like your airfilter waterlogged
========|| < hood scoop
..............||
..............||
............... ================ > plastic intake tube to airfilter box
..............||
..............|| <--- Elbow (where *****/can caps etc are inserted)
.......----- -----
.......|.............| <--- Reservoir/"resonator" only one inlet
.......|.............|
.......-----------
The "." (periods) are placeholders
Interesting idea...so you think what we have called the reservoir is really some sort of a catch basin?
I never thought of it that way....any thoughts on that?
09-12-2006, 06:57 PM
#82
Originally Posted by 95bluse
I'm quite sure there is no need to bypass that "resonator" under the battery. In fact, I'm sure it is not a resonator, but a catch can for water & debris. There is no noise reduction when this box is bypassed nor is there any loss of intake air "pressure" due to it.
First of all, air flow is increased when the hole is blocked. I've already demonstrated that with an anemometer.
Secondly, air temperature is also decreased: also measured with the hot wire anemometer.
As for noise reduction, I don't have a Db meter handy, but if I did, I'll prove that one too.
I have heard a lot of "supposedly expert" opinion about the what the resonator is and what it does, but so far, nobody has ever shown a photograph of the outside OR the inside, or from where they get their "inside knowledge."
In reality, it amounts to a blind faith that the engineers at Maxima made the "best" intake for their cars...whatever that means.
Unlike the "experts," however, seeing is believing, and that is why I have been running my own measurements for months on how to modify a stock intake so that it actually produces more than just noise or butt dyno reactions.
Now, I am making one and only one claim: that when my mods are done, it will produce a significant increase in air density over the stock setup.
The theory is that the greater the air density, the greater the HP.
Whether that really happens, I cannot say unless I put it on a real dyno.
09-13-2006, 06:52 AM
#83
Originally Posted by dr-rjp
Hope you're not as betting man, because if you were to back up what you said here with some jack, you'd lose it.
First of all, air flow is increased when the hole is blocked. I've already demonstrated that with an anemometer.
Secondly, air temperature is also decreased: also measured with the hot wire anemometer.
As for noise reduction, I don't have a Db meter handy, but if I did, I'll prove that one too.
I have heard a lot of "supposedly expert" opinion about the what the resonator is and what it does, but so far, nobody has ever shown a photograph of the outside OR the inside, or from where they get their "inside knowledge."
In reality, it amounts to a blind faith that the engineers at Maxima made the "best" intake for their cars...whatever that means.
Unlike the "experts," however, seeing is believing, and that is why I have been running my own measurements for months on how to modify a stock intake so that it actually produces more than just noise or butt dyno reactions.
Now, I am making one and only one claim: that when my mods are done, it will produce a significant increase in air density over the stock setup.
The theory is that the greater the air density, the greater the HP.
Whether that really happens, I cannot say unless I put it on a real dyno.
First of all, air flow is increased when the hole is blocked. I've already demonstrated that with an anemometer.
Secondly, air temperature is also decreased: also measured with the hot wire anemometer.
As for noise reduction, I don't have a Db meter handy, but if I did, I'll prove that one too.
I have heard a lot of "supposedly expert" opinion about the what the resonator is and what it does, but so far, nobody has ever shown a photograph of the outside OR the inside, or from where they get their "inside knowledge."
In reality, it amounts to a blind faith that the engineers at Maxima made the "best" intake for their cars...whatever that means.
Unlike the "experts," however, seeing is believing, and that is why I have been running my own measurements for months on how to modify a stock intake so that it actually produces more than just noise or butt dyno reactions.
Now, I am making one and only one claim: that when my mods are done, it will produce a significant increase in air density over the stock setup.
The theory is that the greater the air density, the greater the HP.
Whether that really happens, I cannot say unless I put it on a real dyno.
Nor am I trying to pick a fight, I've actually posted some positive comments when you first started this thread. I've also done some research on the subject hence my questions.-My observation is that airflow will take the least path of resistance, why would adding a box that's connected via an elbow,with only an inlet, impede airflow? I know you've taken some measurements, I'll go back through the thread to see how it was done. Ditto for the temperature difference.
-Since that box is not in the path of the airflow it cannot reduce intake noise. I know this because I ran with it plugged/open/installed. No noise difference appreciable noise difference at all. If you need a dB meter to prove me wrong, what does that tell you? It tells you the box is there to collect water/debris that may slip through the hood scoop. Many members have taken out this box & found leaves & water in there.
-"The theory is that the greater the air density, the greater the HP. " No argument here, I love how my Max performs in cool Autumn weather. Maybe I'll fill up that box with some dry ice
Good luck in your endeavours!
09-14-2006, 01:07 PM
#84
OK, 95bluse...that's cool. I tend to get a bit testy on this subject due to prior flames. Let me try to address your questions individually.
Exactly! The path of least resistance would be to enter the airbox w/o touching anything else. However, it does just that, by passing over the elbow to the resonator.
Ever blow across an empty soda bottle to make a sound? The air you blow passes over the opening of the soda bottle and causes the air inside the bottle to resonate and that is what produces the sound.
However, there is no such thing as a free lunch, and some of the energy within the airstream is drawn off as sound energy by the resonating soda bottle. Without the soda bottle there to draw off some that energy as sound, then what you'd hear is that sound energy being heard somewhere else down the line.
Unlike the open soda bottle, the car's resonator system traps the sound in that little, black box and keeps it from being heard inside the cabin. Why else would they call it a resonator? Because that's what it does.
Well, that is not all that it does. It will smooth out the airflow if (and I emphasize the word, if) there is any inherent turbulence in it.
However -- and this is key -- you do not need a resonator if you wish to smooth out the air flow. The other way most commonly done is by "tuning." The length of a cold air intake is a critical factor because, like a musical instrument, it had to be "tuned" to "resonate" with the naturally occurring vibrations of the airflow.
Removing the car's resonator and elbow does not affect the distance that the airflow has to travel (as a tuned CAI would). What it does do is to reduce the volume of air which results in an increase in air velocity (as i have demonstrated with the anemometer).
With all factors held constant, an increase in air velocity will result in a decrease in air temperature (again, another example of Conservation of Energy).
All you need to know in this game is THE COOLER THE AIR, THE BETTER THE PERFORMANCE.
In fact, you could generalize this to ALL facets of a car's operation when you consider just how much energy gets lost to heat (I think I read somewhere that it was more than 90% in most passenger cars).
More later....
Originally Posted by 95bluse
-My observation is that airflow will take the least path of resistance, why would adding a box that's connected via an elbow,with only an inlet, impede airflow? I know you've taken some measurements, I'll go back through the thread to see how it was done. Ditto for the temperature difference.
Ever blow across an empty soda bottle to make a sound? The air you blow passes over the opening of the soda bottle and causes the air inside the bottle to resonate and that is what produces the sound.
However, there is no such thing as a free lunch, and some of the energy within the airstream is drawn off as sound energy by the resonating soda bottle. Without the soda bottle there to draw off some that energy as sound, then what you'd hear is that sound energy being heard somewhere else down the line.
Unlike the open soda bottle, the car's resonator system traps the sound in that little, black box and keeps it from being heard inside the cabin. Why else would they call it a resonator? Because that's what it does.
Well, that is not all that it does. It will smooth out the airflow if (and I emphasize the word, if) there is any inherent turbulence in it.
However -- and this is key -- you do not need a resonator if you wish to smooth out the air flow. The other way most commonly done is by "tuning." The length of a cold air intake is a critical factor because, like a musical instrument, it had to be "tuned" to "resonate" with the naturally occurring vibrations of the airflow.
Removing the car's resonator and elbow does not affect the distance that the airflow has to travel (as a tuned CAI would). What it does do is to reduce the volume of air which results in an increase in air velocity (as i have demonstrated with the anemometer).
With all factors held constant, an increase in air velocity will result in a decrease in air temperature (again, another example of Conservation of Energy).
All you need to know in this game is THE COOLER THE AIR, THE BETTER THE PERFORMANCE.
In fact, you could generalize this to ALL facets of a car's operation when you consider just how much energy gets lost to heat (I think I read somewhere that it was more than 90% in most passenger cars).
More later....
09-14-2006, 04:16 PM
#85
Here is a status update. This is how the stock intake looks now. Notice the two holes in the scoop: the big hole on the bottom side and the smaller hole on the top side. I cut out the divider in the middle of the scoop to let in more air. I will cover up these holes.
Here's a look down the scoop throat where you can see the new opening:
Notice also that I cut off the elbow extension which I will plug up as well.
On the inside of the airbox, I covered up the waffled interior with a sheet of flexible, slippery plastic. I want to see if I can improve upon the airflow or if the waffled interior is shaped that way to guide the airflow, or is mainly a way to strengthen the integrity of the box.
Here is the normal interior. Notice there is an curved indentation in the bottom to make room for a hose (which is not there for aerodynamic purposes, that's for sure):
Here is a closeup of the modded interior:
Here's a look down the scoop throat where you can see the new opening:
Notice also that I cut off the elbow extension which I will plug up as well.
On the inside of the airbox, I covered up the waffled interior with a sheet of flexible, slippery plastic. I want to see if I can improve upon the airflow or if the waffled interior is shaped that way to guide the airflow, or is mainly a way to strengthen the integrity of the box.
Here is the normal interior. Notice there is an curved indentation in the bottom to make room for a hose (which is not there for aerodynamic purposes, that's for sure):
Here is a closeup of the modded interior:
10-04-2006, 08:41 PM
#86
The modded intake is completed, except for coating it (and the air box) with liquid ceramic (which I'll do this Saturday). I think I'll leave the MAF housing as is (too risky to be painting anything on it). Ditto on that triangular thingy between it and the TB.
As you can see from the picks, the former opening to the resonator elbow has been cut flush to the intake and covered up, as have the other holes used to remove the center scoop support.
Also, compare the difference in the scoop opening between stock (top) and my modded one (bottom):
I replaced the old insulation that was around the scoop opening with heavy-duty foam insulation. The liquid ceramic coating will keep the air entering the intake at a nice temperature (thanks to the R-16 insulation rating of the coating).
For the scoop extender (or "enhancer"), I took a large, plastic kitty litter container and cut out a custom trough-like shape to attach below the scoop opening. It does a better job of routing the outside air into the scoop than the rectangular box I was using.
For grins, I tried the setup out (without the coating, of course) to see how my car would react to the extra air.
WOW, is all I can say. This sucker really flew! How I got along without it, I'll never know.
When the whole thing is coated and ready for show, I'll upload some photos (and also see if I can locate a dyno for some external verification).
As you can see from the picks, the former opening to the resonator elbow has been cut flush to the intake and covered up, as have the other holes used to remove the center scoop support.
Also, compare the difference in the scoop opening between stock (top) and my modded one (bottom):
I replaced the old insulation that was around the scoop opening with heavy-duty foam insulation. The liquid ceramic coating will keep the air entering the intake at a nice temperature (thanks to the R-16 insulation rating of the coating).
For the scoop extender (or "enhancer"), I took a large, plastic kitty litter container and cut out a custom trough-like shape to attach below the scoop opening. It does a better job of routing the outside air into the scoop than the rectangular box I was using.
For grins, I tried the setup out (without the coating, of course) to see how my car would react to the extra air.
WOW, is all I can say. This sucker really flew! How I got along without it, I'll never know.
When the whole thing is coated and ready for show, I'll upload some photos (and also see if I can locate a dyno for some external verification).
10-05-2006, 07:50 AM
#89
Originally Posted by Apparition
I think theres a few songs about wasting time.. you should listen to them. lol
10-05-2006, 09:29 AM
#91
Originally Posted by DR-Max
I agree with you.
Like, why bother?
At least I'm not wasting money on silly vanity plates.
And yes...its free.
10-05-2006, 12:58 PM
#93
Originally Posted by DR-Max
We??? When??? I know I'm not going cenile but we never had this discussion. I know you have gadgets and too much time in your hands, just itchin to get into projects. No one is rejecting your research, its just funny how you tried doing this before when you tried to do your experimentation on engine compartment temps and the differences between when a car is standing still and when it is moving. Whatever happened to that? Yes, you did posted results but then the thread died after. Now you got something else to pick on.
I think you love to hear yourself talk or for this matter, you love to read what you wrote, because you love to write long drawn-out posts. I laugh at the fact that you have said those things like you actually know me as the kind of person that only rejects things. I just know when something is a waste of time. You remind me of a person that, instead of taking a direct route to work, you like to take the scenic route and just drive around in circles before getting to your destination. So far, what you are trying to accomplish had already been done in a more direct manner. You just like to add your little flowery words and phrases and sound like some professor in college.
If you cared to read that thread, its not about the frankencar, its about the intake resonator. What is the difference between having it and having an aftermarket midpipe. If you didn't care about that, then that's on you. Again, you are just trying to reinvent the wheel.
You should get yourself on that American Inventor TV show.
BTW... the removal of that L-shaped piping on the resonator by the bettery is not new. It's in the stickies...had you only been reading first. You did not come up with that.
I bet anyone in here that you will be posting a reply that is probably a half a thread-page long.
I think you love to hear yourself talk or for this matter, you love to read what you wrote, because you love to write long drawn-out posts. I laugh at the fact that you have said those things like you actually know me as the kind of person that only rejects things. I just know when something is a waste of time. You remind me of a person that, instead of taking a direct route to work, you like to take the scenic route and just drive around in circles before getting to your destination. So far, what you are trying to accomplish had already been done in a more direct manner. You just like to add your little flowery words and phrases and sound like some professor in college.
If you cared to read that thread, its not about the frankencar, its about the intake resonator. What is the difference between having it and having an aftermarket midpipe. If you didn't care about that, then that's on you. Again, you are just trying to reinvent the wheel.
You should get yourself on that American Inventor TV show.
BTW... the removal of that L-shaped piping on the resonator by the bettery is not new. It's in the stickies...had you only been reading first. You did not come up with that.
I bet anyone in here that you will be posting a reply that is probably a half a thread-page long.
After reply #25, there's no sense in humoring you any longer.
10-05-2006, 03:03 PM
#95
Originally Posted by Apparition
yeah it happens, no on listens.. 
Originally Posted by dr-rjp
Nah... I'll let you keep the honor of the longest and most meaningless post. After reply #25, there's no sense in humoring you any longer.
This whole thread is a joke because it is one of the oldest and still ongoing thread which noone but one or two really care about. You should waste your time and money on 00vi or MEVI swaps and dyno-tuning. Wait til you see my next setup, then we'll see who's chasing their own tail.
10-05-2006, 04:20 PM
#96
Originally Posted by DR-Max
...This whole thread is a joke because it is one of the oldest and still ongoing thread which noone but one or two really care about.
Well..I am flattered. After all this time, you still care enough to write.
Thank you for your continued interest.
07-31-2007, 10:56 PM
#98
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,117
alrighty , just picked up a 5th gen but i think the intake setup is very similar , i have a resonator under battery and same pipe that could be blocked off as well....i saw the gutter intake thread which kinda got me thinking on test results , for the air flow with resonator disconnected and uncapped im curious what the readings would be had you blew air in BOTH the intake and resonator opening , i would think it would be like dual cai maybe break 10mph flow cuz with air blowin in 1 of course some air will escape in the resonator opening ...and also i am currently running gab in the 5th gen like this
im also wondering since im running gab should i take off the resonator and cap it or turn it into an intake with an elbow facing front or if gab wont work well will resonator capped or set up as intake ...see my dilema
gab & resonator capped
gab & resonator gutter intake style
stock filter & resonator capped
stock filter & resonator gutter intake
im also wondering since im running gab should i take off the resonator and cap it or turn it into an intake with an elbow facing front or if gab wont work well will resonator capped or set up as intake ...see my dilema
gab & resonator capped
gab & resonator gutter intake style
stock filter & resonator capped
stock filter & resonator gutter intake
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