whitemax21

I am curious to know which engine would be the best replacement when my current engine gives out. I currently have a stock 97 SE with 193,000 miles. My choice of course is between the 3.5 and the dek. It seems like the dek swap would be the easiest of the two without much downtime. This car is a daily driver, so while I want increased power, I also want a dependable car that I wouldn't have to tune all of the time. Plus, I wouldn't know where to begin to even attempt to tune an engine. My brother-in-law will be the one doing the swap. He is very mechanically inclined and has alot of experience with working on cars. I will probably take the car to the track to goof off, but won't be using slicks or reducing the weight. Basically, I want a smooth swap with increased power running on street tires. So, should I do the dek, or would the 3.5 be overkill for my situation. Also, would it be cheaper to rebuild a 5-speed or buy one with low mileage? If it is better to just buy one with low mileage, will a 00-01 tranny be a direct drop and go swap? Thanks in advance for your suggestions and comments.

NmexMAX

iTrader: (22)

I'd say 3.5L.
The DEK will give you more top end, but you can easily do that with a 00VI. I know there are other differences, but powerwise, it will be the same.(DE +00VI and DEK

whitemax21

If I went with a 3.5, is upgrading the ecu necessary. I don't know anything about having someone program one or anything like that. I've been trying to understand that emanage ultimate thing. Is that a ecu replacement or enhancement? Things like that worry me about swapping in a 3.5 not knowing and understanding the technical aspect of a swap such as tuning and messing with ecu's.

NmexMAX

iTrader: (22)

It's not a replacement.


JClaw never tuned and nearly hit 12's.

Chickan

iTrader: (12)

the dek will be much simpler, but both projects are doable.

MaximaSE96

iTrader: (8)

with enough research and knowing all that u need the 3.5 will be just as easy as the dek....but overall IMO DEK is simpler.....3.5 will be a lil more time consuming

tavarish

iTrader: (27)

go for the 3.5. DEK is easier, but yields less gains. I wouldnt trade my 3.5 for any DEK anywhere. It just has power all over the rev range, and it definitely has as much power up top as an 00vi with my 'v-spec' manifold (SSIM).

At half throttle it feels like i'm flooring it on my 3.0.

MDeezy

iTrader: (27)

I would like to insert another vote for the 3.5. Both engine will be reliable as long as the install is done properly. Down time will be greater with the 3.5 but there are ways of minimizing that is your play everything out right. I think tavarish hold the record of 4days down time.

You'll love the 3.5's power. I drove one and was amazed, got back in my car and could barely feel the clutch engaging.

Also as mentioned for Tuning, you dont have to, you'll be running rich, but one good tune and you wont have to do it again. Other are doing it over and over to try to find more power, see what yields the best results.

whitemax21

So, if I understand correctly, I can use my stock ecu with zero problems? Why do people mention using a JWT ecu or that emanage ultimate thing? Would these only be necessary for those who mainly want a drag car?

MDeezy, you mentioned that the car would be running rich. That would be if I used my stock ecu and did nothing......correct? What would someone need to do in order to correct this? Also, with a stock ecu will the idle be as smooth as my current stock setup?

Sorry for all of the questions that are probably common sense to most of you guys. I realize that I have alot to learn, but I read and try to understand as much as possible. Thanks to all of you who have replied and keep 'em coming. I'll take all the information I can get.

tavarish

iTrader: (27)

running rich doesnt mean much, and running rich isn't as rich as some other cars. read: DSM'S. The stock ECU will run rich regardless of engine, i've never seen a maxima that didnt run rich untuned at WOT.

your stock ECU will work just fine with a 3.5 or DE-K. People tune to get a litte more power out of their cars, and possibly a little better gas mileage. I'll be getting a greddy emanage pretty soon, and i'll find out what a tuned 3.5 in a 4th gen can do.

MDeezy

iTrader: (27)

you can use your ecu just fine because during the swap you'd be using all the sensor and equipment needed, to keep your stock ecu. Other speak about jwt or the emanage ultimate as a source for tuning, getting more power, but the JWT is a modification of your stock ecu, and the emanage ultimate piggy backs onto your stock ecu.

Running rich is you using more fuel that is needed, its not a huge problem and your car will still drive fine it just may feel a little boggy. Tunening your car is what will cure this, hence the JWT or Emangage Ultimate. Idle will be as smooth as you can get it. Dont see a reason why idle would be bad.

whitemax21

Thank you very much Mdeezy and Tavarish for your explanations. More than likely, I would begin with my stock ecu and try to learn more about the emanage and go from there. Any thoughts on the tranny? Would I be better off with a clutch upgrade and low mileage 4th gen or a low mileage 00-01? I read that if I used the 5th gen, I would have to change the axles and a linkage or something like that. I probably need new axles anyway because of the high mileage and torn boots. Just wondering what most people would do in this situation.

MDeezy

iTrader: (27)

You can use your tranny, a clutch upgrade will be needed for the additonal power. No need to change linkage or axles, all works just fine with the 3.5. If you have torn boots on your axles I would recommend changing them if you were getting a new motor or not.

here is a link to the write up for the 3.5 it may seems overwhelming but just take it in small bites.
http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=430880

tavarish

iTrader: (27)

i'm making a writeup for the 3.5 swap shortly. i have lots of pics and tips for the DIY'er.

whitemax21

The tranny has 193,000 miles on it, same as the motor. Do you think the tranny will hold up with only a clutch upgrade. I just thought that the internals were probably worn as well and when the motor does go, I would like to have a fresh tranny to go with it. Seems like a matter of time before it went too. But, if it wouldn't be a big deal to mate the high mileage tranny to the 3.5, that would save some money.

nismology

iTrader: (8)

How much more additional info could there possibly be?

MDeezy

iTrader: (27)

Your motor may have 193K on it but that doesnt mean its about to go due to its age, unless there are signs that let you know this motor will be resting in peace soon, then your stock motor can go on well into the 300K. So if your replacing your motoro only due to its age save your money and wait till it actually might go bad. The tranny is a different story, we all know the 4th gen trannies dont seem to have the greatest life. If you were to go thru with the swap, I would use your same 193k tranny but keep and eye out for a good low milage 5th gen tranny incase yours went out. But since your not doing the work, it would just save time and headache to get a good low milage tranny and get it all done at once.

whitemax21

Right now, I am trying to get an idea of exactly what I would need just to get the car running. I don't plan on doing anything yet, because the stock motor is still running fine. I was just wondering which motor I should get so I can maybe begin to buy the items I will need for the swap. That way, I won't have to come up with the money all at once. As far as the tranny, are there any advantages of the 5th gen over the fourth, in case I found either one with low mileage? Wasn't sure if the internals were stronger in the 5th or if there are any small modifications needed to make a 5th gen work in a 4th gen. Thanks again for your help.

MDeezy

iTrader: (27)

Its the general assesment the 5th gen is stronger and less prone to failure.

As for the 3.5 if you for sure were going to do the swap there are many things you can start to get now that are pretty cheap.

Rubber hoses
extra coolant
t-fittings
afpr
PF TB if you dont want to modify the TB that will come with the 3.5
adapter plates
clutch.
etc.

I would recommend checking out that how in the all motor section, it will give you a good idea of what the swap entails plus it has a list of parts you'll need.

Dexter

aren't you forgetting motor mounts and cam spacers?

I'm swapping to 3.5+6spd when my MAX hits 200k, I might turbo it too while i'm at it

MDeezy

iTrader: (27)

that would be covered under my "etc"

nismology

iTrader: (8)

It's been proven that the differences between the two are minimal as far as compenents that are prone to failure are concerned.

MDeezy

iTrader: (27)

I missed the concusion of that debate.

What about the synchros?

i30ds

iTrader: (8)

According to Neal, the 4th an 5th gen are the same.

nismology

iTrader: (8)

Nealoc said that only the first gear synchros are different. This makes sense since you can engage first while still rolling with the 5th gen 5-speed when it's nearly impossible with the 4th gen tranny.

There have been cases of differential bearing failures in 5th gen 5-speeds.

whitemax21

So, it looks like the 5th gen tranny would be just as good as the 4th gen. Is the stock 5th clutch as good as the rest or is there one that is better?

MDeezy

iTrader: (27)

if your doing the 3.5 the 5th gen (00-01) clutch wont hold up.

i30ds

iTrader: (8)

Actually, if I recall correctly, he said that the 97-99 have the dual synchros as well. Only the 95-96 have the single synchro. Mine goes into 1st smooth as butter when rolling slowly. It really helps in every day driving like in parking lots and stuff.

My friends 96 is damned near impossible to slide into 1st unless like you said, you are at a dead stop.

i30ds

iTrader: (8)

The 5th gen clutch is superior to the 4th gen. So even if you never do any engine swap, keep that in mind when you need a new clutch.

MDeezy

iTrader: (27)

I can get into 1st on my 4th gen tranny but only under 9mph and with some decent force and maybe a blip of the throttle.

i30ds

iTrader: (8)

Thats pretty much the way it is in my friends 96.

NmexMAX

iTrader: (22)

My 03 3.5L is lean, untuned..

tavarish

iTrader: (27)

correction, i've never seen a 4TH GEN maxima that didnt run rich at WOT.

tavarish

iTrader: (27)

I have lots of pics, you'd be surprised (maybe not) about how many questions people have about the basics of the swap. It's gonna be a complete beginning to end with a fair amount of detail. There are also things that the procedure didn't tell you, that i'm going to include.

maximariceboi

iTrader: (32)

nice...will and i been tryin to visit u to check out ur ride. yo if u need anythin i can hook u up like the emu that you need..i was goin to get that to tune the 00vi but im lookin for a motor swap soon. hit me up wit a pm man. thanks

MDeezy

iTrader: (27)

I look forward to that, the other write up is a great one. But I'm sure there are little small things that might have been over looked.

I'm going to try and video tape my whole swap, once the motor arrives.