So Progress gives the most drop and still rides better than the Eibachs. Does this mean the spring rate is too soft for the drop?

 

Not really. Progress springs are stiff enough to be safe. Eibachs are just a little stiffer.

 

if i remember Sutter corretly u dont need to cut 3rd gens Konis ..they are already 2" shorter.......if ur running a progress or eibach u really shouldnt need anything more than what the shortened 4th gen Koni will do....3rd gen rears are teh way to go but i think they are non-adj......but i neber touch my rears anyway

 

i've had older eibachs/AGX/rsb in my 97 gxe 5sp before i sold it to my cousin. i've also installed progress/AGXs/rsb in my mom's 95 SE last summer. the progress springs ride a tiny bit lower and even. i think it actually looks nicer. handling is confident even when the shocks are set at the softest up front (which is how my parents like it). the eibachs in my cousin's maxima definetly ride stiffer. it's noticeable just trying to push the rear end down from the trunk on both cars. IMO since i don't autocross or track i think the progress/AGX is the best all around for blasting down city blvds and around town where the roads aren't perfect. progress is less jarring and better balanced. with the RSB and AGX at full damper handling characteristics are identical at the limit. it sort of reminded me of the sure footed feeling of my dad's old WRX. i'd say whichever brand was cheaper which in most cases always will be progress. hope this helps.

 

Dont cut the 3rd gen reds. They are plenty short enough already. Cut 4th gen yellows would work pretty well with the Eibachs since its not a large drop. You can even out the Eibachs with a couple of tricks to raise the rear; coil spacers, use the upper perch on the Konis, wrap the upper (dead) coils with heater hose, or even empty that trunk! I noticed my Eibachs sagged like crazy with Bens rear mounts. My ME mounts were much better.

I used to have Eibachs and AGX. I switched to CMS, Intrax and combinations of the 3 brands. The Eibachs are they way to go no doubt. Now I have GC/Koni and the ride is stiff yes, but its not harsh like AGX are. No matter what setting the Konis are on they feel *soft/smooth* from the single adjustment of rebound. AGX are just bottom of the line crap that everyone buys because they work and they are cheap. Anyone who knows suspensions will tell you they are crap. You cant dial in anything the way they are valved and dual adjustable with a single ****.

The control arm angles and bump steer is a non issue with Eibachs.

Cliffs: Go with Konis and Eibachs..... laugh at all others

 

ROGER....also with a mild drop of the GC LCA angles and bumpsteer wont be an issue

 

Wait...3rd gen rears? I didn't know you can use 3rd gen rears on a 4th gen. Are they shorter as well?

If I don't cut the threads on the 3rd gen Reds on the front, how difficult will the install be compared to if I did cut the threads on 4th gen Yellows? How could you mount the shortened Yellows?

And from another old thread....


Is this saying that the Yellows are the firmer of the two? If so, I think I would want 4th gen Yellows in back, and depending on the install, just cut the threads on the 4th gen Yellows up front.

 

AGXs are simple to install and relatively inexpensive compared to konis. if you question quality AGX dampeners are used in tanabe coilovers which have a good JDM rep. also, STI subaru likes to use them as an upgrade over oem. dampening can be stock gxe soft or twice as hard as SE. they're durable and have lasted some rough northeast winters. i think between my cousin and i, we've had a set for 5yrs and driven over 60,000mi on them. they're still taking a beating and dampening some really stiff eibach springs. i've found a better balanced combination in progress springs, RSB and AGX shocks installed in my mom's 95SE. they're cheaper, simpler to install and durable.

 

^^^^^ I had AGXs and Illuminas....once u ride on Koni's u wil realize how much they dominate the others....and yes use can use 3rd gen rears....it actually lowers the car an inch.....and for the 3rd gen front install its not different that using 4ths...u wont need to cut the threads at all...nad i fu do use shortend 4th gens u dont completely hack of the threads...jsut about 3/4".......for the rears though 4th gens are fine ....especically with mild drop and Long travel mounts

 

Thats fine, but they are not the best. Nothing else available is even close to as good as Koni. JIC, TEIN, KYB, Tokico, GAB, etc are all JUNK in comparison. Read the shocks section:
http://www.farnorthracing.com/autocross_secrets.html

 

Hmm. Are 4th gen rears gas dampers and 3rd gen rears not?

 

can anyone answer my questions in post #47?

 

No you cant use 3rd gen rears. You can only use 3rd gen front inserts. They are already much shorter than the 4th gen yellows. When you shorten the Konis you still bolt them in from the bottom. Its not any harder of an install. There is just little room for error when cutting off some of the threaded portion at the bottom.

3rd gen reds (part # 86-2435) are twin tube hydraulic. Overall length 20".
4th gen yellows (part # 8641-1362) are twin tube low pressure gas. Overall length 23.5"

 

Can you clarify the difference between twin tube hydraulic and and twin tube low pressure gas?


Does this show Yellows to be firmer than reds?

 

http://www.seoc.co.uk/shocks.htm

Basically, gas dampers are nice because they don't cause fluid cavitation and foaming, which means they are more consistent and resistant to fade. They also add a little bit of upward force to the piston -- how much force depends on the pressure of the gas -- which means they simulate having slightly stiffer springs. That's why gas dampers make your car sit a little bit higher and can improve your handling. The disadvantage to a gas damper is that it can complicate suspension tuning because the gas pressure doesn't work quite the same way as a spring. That's a really minor thing on a street car, though, and 99% of the time it's worth it for the advantages you get.



Does this show Yellows to be firmer than reds?[/QUOTE]
Yes.

 

Thank you, that was a good link.

So basically, the 4th gen Yellows are superior to the 3rd gen Reds in every aspect except wheel travel, although that can be compensated for by trimming the threads on the Yellows. Not to mention that the install would be more straight forward with the trimmed Yellows. Did they ever make Yellows for the 3rd gen?

 

Just to be clear, the thread trimming is for the fronts, and the reds vs. yellows thing is for the rears.

But yes, Yellows are probably better for your purposes -- they are more sport-oriented and better able to control stiffer springs, whereas Reds are more comfort-oriented and best suited for stock or stock-like springs.

 

Wait, now I might be more confused than I was before...

I know the thread trimming is only for the front. I thought we were talking about using the 3rd gen Red fronts vs. 4th gen Yellow fronts. When were we talking about red vs yellow in the rear? I thought we could only use the 4th gen yellows for the rear, or do they also make reds for the 4th gen as well? What about yellows for the 3rd gen, do they make those?

Ahhh....my head is spinning...too many combinations

I think I'll just use 4th gen yellows all around and just trim the front threads....sounds easy enough, and also the best struts for me.

 

They make Reds and Yellows for the 3rd gen, but only Yellows for the 4th gen. The only reason 3rd gen Reds were ever brought up is that 3rd gen Red rears give more travel than 4th gen Yellow rears.

Does that clear anything up?

 

3rd gen only come in red (specials)
4th gen only come in yellow (sport)
FYI: The p11 (99-02 G20), b14 (95-99 Sentra). b15 (00-05? Sentra) all have the same style strut out back as the A32/A33 just shorter. Its another option for those on ground controls who like to be slammed and keep all travel. They would work well with the 3rd gen reds with the car dropped around 2-2.5". But you cant gain any handling with the bump steer and roll center issues.

They are different in many ways main being yellows are stiffer, but the reds will handle 450 in/lb spring which is plenty for a daily used vehicle. Koni designed each for the specific vehicle, so they differ a bit.


*****3rd gen rears have nothing to do with 4th gen rears*****

 

SO pairing 3rd gen reds all around is better than 4th gen yellows all around? from a comfort stand point? but not from a performance stand point? or you can ONLY use 4th gen yellows in the rear?

Im talking about this with the progress springs in mind to go with the koni's. Im looking for a really comfortable ride that will perform. and since the progress arent that low, the lower 3rd gen reds will subtract wheel gap since they are shorter than the yellow 4th gens?

sutter I sent you a pm the other day, u get it? about this topic we were talking about.

 

I wouldn't. Progress springs with Koni Yellows barely leaves you enough suspension travel and stiffness to keep you from bottoming out. Reds would give you slightly more travel but less stiffness.

 

Wow is this that hard to understand? d00df00d you must not compleatly understand whats going on. The stiffness of the strut has nothing to do with travel or keeping you off the bumps. Also the reds are not really that much different than the yellows in the long run. The reds will have a little more comfortable ride, marginally.

ALL........... YES ALL!!!!!!! lowered Maximas NEED shorter front struts. Konis are the only way to achieve this. The shorter insert does not lower the ride height. You just gain back the lost travel from being lowered. Its that simple. Either cut the yellows (stay with a mild drop) or use the reds (which can take a lower drop). Both will handle ground control springs no problem.

I did reply to your 2nd PM matts95max, telling you the differences of the Konis, Illuminas, Eibachs, H&R, Progress. I will relpy to the 3rd one later.

 

Something doesn't add up with those 3 statements. Doodfood says 3rd gen rears have more travel than 4th gen rears...but since Stutter said they have nothing in common/won't fit, so it's a moot point, right?
In addition, Doodfood says Koni makes reds and yellows for the 3rd gen, but only yellows for the 4th gen. Stutter says otherwise.

Then Stutter mentions that Reds will handle a lower drop better than the Yellows. Since the Yellows are firmer, and appear to be more suited for a lower drop (gas), I'm confused why the Reds handle them better.

See where the confusion comes in?

 

d00df00d knows his ****, but not this time. I have been researching this for way too long. 2 years to the DAY:
http://forums.maxima.org/showthread....t=wheel+travel

My last setup
http://forums.maxima.org/showthread....t=wheel+travel

I dont know why you keep bringing up 3rd gen rears, its a completely different design. They have nothing to do with 4th gens.

There is no such thing as yellows for a 3rd gen.
No such thing as red for a 4th gen.

The stock 4th gen sized strut (applies to the uncut 4th gen yellow) runs out out piston travel with about a 2" drop. The bump stop actually hits the top of the strut body limiting travel. This is the classic **** up by nearly all the drop springs available.

Cutting the 4th gen yellow drops the insert into the housing 1" and gives back that needed travel.

A 3rd gen insert is already much shorter than the 4th gen so no need to cut it. 3rd gen inserts body is about 11.5" where as the 4th gen is 14".
That means the wheel can now move an additional 2.5". SO a 4th gen dropped 2.5" would have the same amount of travel as a stock 4th gen. Again this has nothing to do with ride height. The shorter inserts will not affect the lower spring perch with traditional springs.

Now yellows could handle a higher rate spring but that does no good if the car is on the bump stops already. Thats why 3rd gen reds work out mint. They can handle plenty high enough rates even if they are *softer* than the yellow. They have the travel when lowered.

Dont get into the gas/hydraulic thing, it means jack ****.




TO repeat myself........ You cannot lower a 4th gen Maxima more than 1.5" and still have enough travel to stay off the bump stops no matter how "stiff" you think the shock is. Shock stiffness has nothing to do with staying off the bump stops. Since the reds are shorter that means the piston has more travel.

 

its my bad for the 3rd gen rears...for some reason i kept thinking that...i meant B14 rears..........OK SO 3RD GEN REARS DONT WORK....I MEANT B14 SENTRA REARS

 

I stand corrected on the damper fitment thing (Reds vs. Yellows). Sorry. I was going by what I thought other people were saying.

But if the Yellows are gas dampers and the Reds are not, that would have to mean that Yellows would help support the car, whereas Reds would not....

 

Dampers dont support the car so i dont know why you would even bring it up.

 

dampers jsut control the rebound rate of the springs....all they do is control the car from bouncing constantly

 

That may not be the primary function of a damper in general, but it is a side-effect of a gas damper.

The link JStutter provided states that degassing a pressurized damper "takes away the little bit of extra spring rate that the gas pressure adds".

And here's a link from Monroe's website that says that gas charging "creates a mild boost in spring rate to the vehicle" and helps "reduce body roll, sway, brake dive, and acceleration squat."




I'll gladly eat my words about fitments and applications (), but I still know a thing or two about theory...

 

Thanks for clarifying.

So theoretically, if I have a 1.5" drop on Eibachs and use the 3rd gen Reds, I will have more wheel travel than stock? Is that even good?

 

I thought you meant the shock held up the car. my b

 

You can shim the inserts to make them the correct length. If they are too short you wont have any droop travel. Then the tires could loose contact with the road over bumps, speed bumps/tables. Keep the same ratio as stock if in doubt ie shim them to match the drop. Thats why the shortend yellows are better for small drops.

 

As long as your wheel isn't hitting the top of your wheel well, more travel is always good.

I'm a little smarter than that, thank-you.

 

That was a good read.

If not for the travel issue and the necessary hacking to be done, I would be all over a Koni/Eibach setup. I don't plan on keeping my car for more than 1-2 years though so some softer "Japanese crap" like Teins or Nex GTs will do for lowered street driving.

I wish we had adjustible front LCAs...

 

this belongs in the 4th gen forum....

 

BEST:
http://forums.maxima.org/showthread....82#post5823382