Car stalls upon start, very low idle
12-30-2006, 12:01 PM
#1
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 29
UPDATE #2: Car stalls upon start, no idle rpm
Hi all... I'd appreciate any help you can provide with this.
A few days ago, the CEL came on (car was asymptomatic at this point). Figuring it's probably just an oxygen sensor, I attempt to read the code myself (using diagnostic mode on the car), but somehow manage to reset the light instead, without getting the code.
The next day, the car started getting progressively worse. I had to crank longer than usual for it to start, but it did start on the first try. However, it didn't rev up as high as it should have (it's cold up here in Canada), only around 900rpm (instead of the regular 1500). Once I started driving, things were fine as long as my foot was on the gas pedal. When I took it off, rpm would drop below 500, car would start to shudder, then needle would go back to around 500rpm, with the car trembling (instead of the usual 650rpm).
Fast forward to 2 days later (car wasn't driven during this time). The engine started with no hesitation, but died immediately after. If I kept the gas pedal pressed, it would run (though it seemed a bit jerky). I shut it off then and there, not wanting to do any more damage.
Any ideas as to what could be wrong, or what to check (mechanics are closed this time of year)? I'm hoping it's nothing injector-related. I'm not that mechanically inclined (in that my knowledge about all the different car parts is limited), but I'm a quick hands-on learner (not that I'm planning to fix this myself, if it turns out to be complicated).
--------UPDATE #1 (DEC 30, 10pm)------------------
Checked the IAC valve, everything seems ok. Measured the voltage at middle terminals at 10.9V (battery being 12V exactly). Took the IAC valve off, and measured resistance across paired terminals to be ~30ohms, just as per the Haynes spec. Next step recommended in Haynes is checking the PCM module.
Now, to place the car in diagnostic mode (according to http://vbxmaxima.8m.com/ecu.html) and managed to clear the code instead, I had the screw turned to diagnostic mode for about 8 seconds, then turned it back midway only (screwdriver came off), then past the indicated blue mark for "run" mode (reason I went past it is because there was no actual hard stop.
NEW SYMPTOMS (or rather, paid more attention to the way the car is running):
(*) no idle rpm at all, engine just stalls
(*) it seems that the engine is knocking when I keep the gas pedal pressed
(*) constant clicking from the IAC valve with engine off and key in "ON" position.
QUESTION:
(*) did I put the car out of diagnostic mode incorrectly? (as I felt no hard stop when turning it back counter-clockwise). If so, can this cause the observed symptoms? (other than the CEL coming on, all these symptoms started after I tried getting the code). I'm thinking the CEL came on b/c of something totally unrelated and I caused this trying to retrieve that code.
--------UPDATE #2 (DEC 31, 12am)------------------
My question above has been bothering me to the point that I fiddled around some more with the diagnostic mode selector screw on the ECU, it turns out I didn't do it right the first time. The car had been in diagnostic mode all this time!!! (thankfully, I stopped driving it as soon as it started acting up). The engine now runs and idles as before.
I was also able to retrieve the original trouble code: 1005 - EGR solenoid valve or circuit fault. I had this code before (September), but it was in conjunction with 0304 (knock sensor) and 0103 (engine coolant temp sensor). I changed the engine coolant temp sensor at that time, and the problem was solved. I guess it's time to take another look at the EGR solenoid.
Any special considerations on changing that solenoid? My plan is basically to follow the Haynes instructions of testing then replacing (if indeed faulty). Also, is it ok to drive around like this for a few days if I do decide to wait for my mechanic to open? (other than having increased NO emissions, I guess)
A few days ago, the CEL came on (car was asymptomatic at this point). Figuring it's probably just an oxygen sensor, I attempt to read the code myself (using diagnostic mode on the car), but somehow manage to reset the light instead, without getting the code.
The next day, the car started getting progressively worse. I had to crank longer than usual for it to start, but it did start on the first try. However, it didn't rev up as high as it should have (it's cold up here in Canada), only around 900rpm (instead of the regular 1500). Once I started driving, things were fine as long as my foot was on the gas pedal. When I took it off, rpm would drop below 500, car would start to shudder, then needle would go back to around 500rpm, with the car trembling (instead of the usual 650rpm).
Fast forward to 2 days later (car wasn't driven during this time). The engine started with no hesitation, but died immediately after. If I kept the gas pedal pressed, it would run (though it seemed a bit jerky). I shut it off then and there, not wanting to do any more damage.
Any ideas as to what could be wrong, or what to check (mechanics are closed this time of year)? I'm hoping it's nothing injector-related. I'm not that mechanically inclined (in that my knowledge about all the different car parts is limited), but I'm a quick hands-on learner (not that I'm planning to fix this myself, if it turns out to be complicated).
--------UPDATE #1 (DEC 30, 10pm)------------------
Checked the IAC valve, everything seems ok. Measured the voltage at middle terminals at 10.9V (battery being 12V exactly). Took the IAC valve off, and measured resistance across paired terminals to be ~30ohms, just as per the Haynes spec. Next step recommended in Haynes is checking the PCM module.
Now, to place the car in diagnostic mode (according to http://vbxmaxima.8m.com/ecu.html) and managed to clear the code instead, I had the screw turned to diagnostic mode for about 8 seconds, then turned it back midway only (screwdriver came off), then past the indicated blue mark for "run" mode (reason I went past it is because there was no actual hard stop.
NEW SYMPTOMS (or rather, paid more attention to the way the car is running):
(*) no idle rpm at all, engine just stalls
(*) it seems that the engine is knocking when I keep the gas pedal pressed
(*) constant clicking from the IAC valve with engine off and key in "ON" position.
QUESTION:
(*) did I put the car out of diagnostic mode incorrectly? (as I felt no hard stop when turning it back counter-clockwise). If so, can this cause the observed symptoms? (other than the CEL coming on, all these symptoms started after I tried getting the code). I'm thinking the CEL came on b/c of something totally unrelated and I caused this trying to retrieve that code.
--------UPDATE #2 (DEC 31, 12am)------------------
My question above has been bothering me to the point that I fiddled around some more with the diagnostic mode selector screw on the ECU, it turns out I didn't do it right the first time. The car had been in diagnostic mode all this time!!! (thankfully, I stopped driving it as soon as it started acting up). The engine now runs and idles as before.
I was also able to retrieve the original trouble code: 1005 - EGR solenoid valve or circuit fault. I had this code before (September), but it was in conjunction with 0304 (knock sensor) and 0103 (engine coolant temp sensor). I changed the engine coolant temp sensor at that time, and the problem was solved. I guess it's time to take another look at the EGR solenoid.
Any special considerations on changing that solenoid? My plan is basically to follow the Haynes instructions of testing then replacing (if indeed faulty). Also, is it ok to drive around like this for a few days if I do decide to wait for my mechanic to open? (other than having increased NO emissions, I guess)
12-30-2006, 12:52 PM
#4
clean the IAC Valve first. also change your PCV Valve and also listen for a vacuum leak if you can hear one. also change your fuel filter (if you havent already done so). do the routine maintenance stuff first and then change the IAC Valve if that turns out to be bad.
may as well take this opportunity to take off your throttle body and clean that too. PM me if you need instructions.
may as well take this opportunity to take off your throttle body and clean that too. PM me if you need instructions.
12-30-2006, 04:52 PM
#5
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 29
Originally Posted by 2da mizzax
clean the IAC Valve first. also change your PCV Valve and also listen for a vacuum leak if you can hear one. also change your fuel filter (if you havent already done so). do the routine maintenance stuff first and then change the IAC Valve if that turns out to be bad.
may as well take this opportunity to take off your throttle body and clean that too. PM me if you need instructions.
may as well take this opportunity to take off your throttle body and clean that too. PM me if you need instructions.
I've pm'd you for instructions on cleaning the throttle body & IACV valve. Thanks for your help.
12-30-2006, 07:05 PM
#7
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 29
I've updated first post with new progress made, unfortunately the situation got worse, as the IAC valve passed all the tests in the Haynes manual (details under UPDATE #1 in first post.
tkhsmd4life, the IAC valve is located close to the firewall, accessible from the driver's side. I've tried to highlight the general area in this picture (not my car):
tkhsmd4life, the IAC valve is located close to the firewall, accessible from the driver's side. I've tried to highlight the general area in this picture (not my car):
12-30-2006, 09:15 PM
#8
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 29
Talk about a positive change! Posted update #2. Now on to fixing the real problem!
While I did need my car these past few days, I have to admit I'm enjoying this whole process (things would probably be different were I still frustrated atm)
While I did need my car these past few days, I have to admit I'm enjoying this whole process (things would probably be different were I still frustrated atm)
01-02-2007, 08:23 PM
#9
1 of few unmodded 4G Maxs
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Commerce Twp., MI
Posts: 2,828
related to topic, my max has been taking 3-5 tries on a cold start to get it started. I have over 147K, SES light on for O2 sensor, can it also be the IACY as well as the starter going bad on my '98 SE? Both IACV and starter are original and I've read that starters go bad quite a bit on 4G maxes
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