AgaricX

So here it is:

I'm a geneticist and synthetic biochemist in College Station, TX. This is a relatively small town with not much to do except work and drink. Since I'm not a big bar-hopper my buds and I work on our virtually innumerable cars.

I have had my Max since 1999. I've been over 250k in the chassis with many incarnations. I started with supercharging the VQ30, then sold the charger. Did a I30 VLSD 5-speed swap. Installed a MEVI. Turboed with a GT35. Sold the 3.0 with turbo and got a 3.5. It is no longer my daily driver and I can now do what I really want.

Let me preface this. If you don't have anything constructive to say then don't post. There are reasons that I'm going to do this which I'll go into. Just know this is an information gathering expedition not a smoke blowing party.

I want very much to convert my beloved sedan to all wheel drive. Now every thread I've seen on the subject has been closed. Mainly due to people being d1cks. No let's not be d1cky, OK?

I have gleaned an Axxess AWD 5 speed and rear diff. I have the shafts, though they're useless. I'll have a driveshaft fabricated at the very end. I've already removed the entire trunk floor and gas tank in favor of a fuel cell and a temporary cross bar for now. I have had true dual exhausts since I installed the VQ35, so routing that will be cake. The car is caged, so torsional stress should be minimal. I've bolted the re-belled Axxess transmission to my mockup 3.0 and it fits perfectly. I haven't put it on the 3.5, as I only have the one installed.

Here's my first technical hurdle. What in the forum's opinion would be the best way to approach the construction of the rear end. I have always disliked the Max's multilink beam and am partial to the J30's independent suspension. The measurements are within a reasonable comparison with the 4G's geometry, but fabrication will obviously be needed. I am planning on buying a J30 rolling chassis for parts.

I obviously have to hold off on the center tunnel and firewall until the rear is permanently oriented.

So my questions are as follows:

Has anyone played around with this idea on a junker? Has anyone fitted the J30 rear on a Max? Does anyone have anything constructive to give, or an alternative to my initial plan? If someone has a better option, I'll hold off on getting the J30 junker.

Just to stave off the flames:

No, I don't want to spend the money on a G35x or some other RWD/AWD car. I have converted my wife's 99 Eclipse to AWD, so I already have another AWD car. The other 6 cars we have are already either RWD or AWD. (Every one I got cheap... except the Max)

Yes, I know this is going to be a helluva lot of work. If we can build a RB30DE and put it in a 240SX, convert an Mitsu Spyder to AWD, make a 240sx into a roadster, install a SR20DE into a Fairlady 1600, put a RB26DETT into a 240Z (not mine) and put a Cadillac Northstar in a Fiero (also not mine), I think this is the next logical step in difficulty. I want to spend all my money to finish this car before I buy my next upgrade - an LS1 for my Fiero.

Yes, there is more to making a car AWD then just putting on the parts, but this is what I do for fun. I am in a laboratory all day, six days a week. Let me carve up my own car to make it perfect, please

vipervadim

iTrader: (10)

if the J30 rear end does not work out you can always take a look at the Infinity M30's or maybe even the 300ZX if you can fit it all in there.

Nissan 6

hmmmm interesting....good luck with w.e you decide to do.

pmohr

iTrader: (26)

Very interesting. Are you going longitudinal or keeping transverse? J30 IRS with AWD in a max...hmm.

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

Is the Axxess awd tranny stuff going to be strong enough for your application? Might be difficult to find a transverse awd transaxle that can take the power

MaximaSE96

iTrader: (8)

Murano AWD parts is what u need

MrEous

iTrader: (11)

Truly the best of luck. I'd love to see the finished product.

Other rear-end choices would be something from a newer Infiniti as well...

mbandit

iTrader: (1)

Does it have to be a independent rear? Most of this is over my head but I would look into a solid rear end like a 9" Ford.....you can build them up as much as you want....I just say this because I recall seeing a show on TV where they put a cobra motor into a Focus....converting it to RWD from fwd. This would definately be the strongest approach (though there would need to be lots of strengthing of the sub frame). There are many different options to mounting suspension with a solid also.....4 link, ladder, leaf...whatever. Then its pretty cheap to get a driveshaft made for the pinion on your 9" and just get the correct ujoint on your axxess tranny at the other end.
I am very interested to see which way you take this.

MaximaSE96

iTrader: (8)

well u can make anything work with enough modification...but if ur going AWD...IRS is the way to go

LeVeL

I wish I had any useful info to add lol

Sounds very very interesting. In fact, the idea passed through my head a little while ago (I wont be able to do it, but just though it'd be siiiiick). Best of luck, let us know how it turns out!

MaximaSE96

iTrader: (8)

AWD eclipse or evo trans axle

MaximaSE96

iTrader: (8)

https://www.tigerjapanese.com/produc...oducts_id=1228

ethnic6

iTrader: (5)

wow, if u do decide to do this it will mean a LOT of money, but as long as u have the money for it, make sure u post updates to let us know how this project fares good luck

SNOMAX

iTrader: (14)

Well, who hasn't dreamed of making their max AWD...

If you can fab up the rear-end enuff, then go for a S13/S14 independent rear with a J30 Diff. There are loads of aftermarket support for the suspension I you might find that once it's all together, the ability to dial in the rear with such as exotic setup would come in handy.

However, we need some pics or I'll have to call shenanegans on you...

Apparition

iTrader: (5)

If you have money it's possible.. The local shop XAT Racing (Formula D, pontiac front end on an S13) said jokingly it could be done just with a decent amount of money.. They've done AWD civics and ton of other crap, so why not. It's just appealing because you actually seem completely serious and so good luck to you!

Kadantsev

iTrader: (3)

An uneducated guess, but I would go with G35x parts on a project like this.

How much heavier do you think the car would be in the end from original?

Apparition

iTrader: (5)

In theory it could work.. Near impossible to find, unless you buy a G35x and you could ony use a few things.. Remember RWD VQ35 vs. FWD VQ35.

Dubbya

iTrader: (16)

Nice. Im out in Bryan, TX quite often. I'd love to come by and see the progress sometime. I too dislike the rear beam set up and once started tossing around the idea of wether or not a 3rd gen rear suspension would work on 4th gens. That doesnt get you past the drive train issue though. Good luck!

MorpheusZero

iTrader: (10)

You obviously seem pretty serious, doubt you'll get any flaming. It's mostly the idiots who come in and say "i juzt gawt a max and wana put a skyline injin wit 4 weele dryve yo! haw do i do it?" People also downplayed the 00vi, 3.5 and 6sp swaps until someone did them. This is obviously slightly larger in magnitude and difficulty though. Wish you the best and definitely keep us updated. I'm sure the mods wouldn't mind stickying a progress thread either... hint hint...

AgaricX

Yes, I've seen the RWD Focus that you can purchase aftermarket:




I've also seen a few AWD civics and an Integra. That's what convinced me to go ahead and do some serious research on this.

Thanks for the link the the Skyline AWD drivetrain. My best friend (the one with the RB26 in his Z) has one that he wants to put in the same car. I told him he was nuts, but I'm there to help. It really wouldn't work too well for the Max. I'm trying to go as painless as I can and that means keeping it transverse and using a t-case to drive the driveshaft etc.. So that kills the G35x idea too. Way too much fabbing there. Thats where I looked first. The M30 / 300ZX rear is plausible I have access to 300ZX NA rear, so maybe I'll look at that.

I like the idea of the 240SX rear and the sheer amount of aftermarket available.

I'm not messing with making an adapter plate for a 4G63 Mitsu trans. but nice try.

Yeah, anyone who wants to come by can. All I have done right now is the cage, the trunk bracing and the fuel cell. My bud has been taking pics, so I'll give a progress report with pictures in a separate thread sometime. As I said I work 6 days a week, so my time is very limited. The 7th day is often spent with my wife and son unless she's out of town... thats when my son and I get to play with cars. Progress will certainly be slow. I am in love with my Max so I am going to be meticulous and gentle... as much as you can with a plasma torch. It took me over a year to get the car caged and the fuel cell installed. Now is the time for the big cutting, so I wanted to see what everyone here had to say before the torching begins.

No one has even tried this before? I coulda sworn someone was going RWD at least. I'm sorry, but with all the big body sedans like the Grand Prix and Impala going RWD to play with the 300C, Charger and the slew of euro RWD sedans etc... FWD just doesn't cut it for me. Am I the only one that thinks a RWD sedan isn't too much to ask from Nissan? I don't mean an Infiniti...

markd248

iTrader: (8)

Okay i tried to dig up two articles for you. The first one i found was a second RWD V8 Focus, sleeper as ****. Made by ATI heres the review by Sport Compact Car http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/ro...or_ford_focus/

The other i tried to find was the twin engine 1998 Tiburon. also check out www.durocco.com he made his own AWD twin engine scirocco. maybe a twin engine max is also a possibility.

Either way good luck itll be a hard project but definately different and amazing if you accomplish it!!

MOHFpro90

iTrader: (11)

Subscribed. That Focus is the Focus RS I believe. Proto V8, never produced.

GL and keep us updated.

f550maranello2

iTrader: (2)

so what ford still= gay.. always had and always will... good luck working on that focus.. plugs should be real fun... just as they are on the real cobra....

Fr33way™

iTrader: (23)

Honestly, start with cutting a LOT of the rear end out of the car. You basically will need to CREATE the rear suspension geometry as well as drivetrian to the rear wheels. Pretty much the locations of the tops of the strut towers would be the only thing remaining. LOT of cutting, LOT of fab.

Basically, if this is what you want to do it will be THE project car. You will literally have to engineer and adapt existing components to make it all work.

AgaricX

You got it. That's why I was asking if anyone had done any sort of a RWD or AWD mockup. I wanted to save myself the time of finding the best rear end... as in the least amount of fabrication possible. I would very much like to not have to modify the strut tower height, but we'll see. I have bookmarked a RWD Altima that used a 240SX read end. They had to modify the rear struts.

Yes, I have much of the trunk cut out and the gas tank removed in favor of a fuel cell. It's held in place by tubing and a tray for the cell just now. Not driven in other words. I have yet to remove the rear end at all.

Apparition

iTrader: (5)

Yeah the strut towers are going to be a bit of a problem though.. I'm sure you've seen 240/300zx/Z/G strut towers. Obviously you'll have to adapt most likely.

Fr33way™

iTrader: (23)

An independant rear from an FC RX7 may be a pattern to follow. Either way you are going to have to run a custom driveshaft so you will be building the suspension (including frame and mounting points) around what can propel the rear wheels. May do some good to check out some options from the junkyard.

*edit* I see now that you wanted to go J30. The option here is to modify your current chassis to accept the J30 rear end.

Fr33way™

iTrader: (23)

Apparition

iTrader: (5)

I too believe the J30 setup would be the easiest and most cost effective means of completing this setup. Their strut mounting is a closer tie to the maximas than say a G35/300zx etc.

Fr33way™

iTrader: (23)

J30 subframe on a 240.

Fr33way™

iTrader: (23)

Larger one of the same blueprint.

AgaricX

Fr33way, where did you get the J30 -> 240 pictures? Is there a website or post with more? I have a 240 with the stock rear and having other options is wonderful. Especially if both the Max and the 240 can share geometry... with work.

Also, where did the hub picture come from. Again, are there more?

BTW, thanks! This is EXACTLY the kind of info I'm dying for. I need to take vacation and ship my wife off somewhere so my son and I can just work on my cars.

MaximaSE96

iTrader: (8)

have u looked into Murano drivetrain

Apparition

iTrader: (5)

Dude they have that AWD Murano over in Britain.. Some prototype. That may be a hell of an idea.

d00df00d

iTrader: (4)

No, a RWD sedan is not too much to ask. The problem is that, given how freakin' huge the Maxima's front overhang is and how close the front wheels are to the firewall, there'll be no way around having a hugely front-biased weight distribution and a big polar moment of inertia. Plus, no matter what you do with the rear suspension, you end up with something sub-optimal: either you do an IRS with parts from a completely different car that has entirely different characteristics (what dampers are you going to use?), or you do a solid axle and throw the sprung-to-unsprung mass ratio to the dogs.

So, what would you end up with? A ton of weight on the front end with an unsophisticated front suspension, a rear suspension that works fairly well at best, a massive polar moment of inertia... It could be better than a stock Maxima, but it's not exactly going to be a great car.

For someone willing to cut the whole floor out of his car, RWD and AWD conversions would be totally doable. They've definitely been pondered many times. But ultimately, the end product has very little going for it besides how cool it is in and of itself. You won't find many people who will go to all the trouble and spend all the money to make it work just to be able to say they made it work -- and of those people, very few in turn have the money, time, and resources to pull it off at all, let alone to do it right. That's why no one's done it (to public knowledge).

My $0.02....

Fr33way™

iTrader: (23)

AgaricX - Just random google pictures, it's easier to get my thoughts across by just throwing some options out. I really havent been able to find a shot of the whole thing....

Fr33way™

iTrader: (23)

This pic is HUGE but worth it.



BAM!

Fr33way™

iTrader: (23)

These are from Matt93se's website as well as many other great angles.

http://blehmco.com/pics/240SX/suspension/

supazn

have you looked at parts from the 2nd gen pathfinders?

Sounbwoy

iTrader: (2)

Infiniti FX35? It uses the 3.5....