Random Bad Starts: Ignition switch? starter? what is causing this?
10-02-2007, 04:49 PM
#1
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Random Bad Starts: Ignition switch? starter? what is causing this?
This started about a week ago
The car either starts perfectly, or while im still holding the key all the way it bogs down, goes kinda quiet and then starts right up, once my lights went out and i let the key go, waited a few seconds, turned the ignition on and then started the car which fired right up.
Starter sounds fine, no screeching sound, no CEL no warning lights on the dash.Tested my battery at an auto store and they said it was dying, replaced it, same problem persists.
Could this be my ignition switch going bad? how do i test this ? it is very loose and the key has lots of play while its in the ignition, but i know thats a separate part from the ignition switch, which is an electronic position sensor to tel lthe car where the key is at (ACC, On, Off ...)
If it was a bad fuel pump would i have bad idle while driving ?
All the maintenance is up to date, new plugs, fuel filter all done this summer blah blah blah...
Please help ;-(
The car either starts perfectly, or while im still holding the key all the way it bogs down, goes kinda quiet and then starts right up, once my lights went out and i let the key go, waited a few seconds, turned the ignition on and then started the car which fired right up.
Starter sounds fine, no screeching sound, no CEL no warning lights on the dash.Tested my battery at an auto store and they said it was dying, replaced it, same problem persists.
Could this be my ignition switch going bad? how do i test this ? it is very loose and the key has lots of play while its in the ignition, but i know thats a separate part from the ignition switch, which is an electronic position sensor to tel lthe car where the key is at (ACC, On, Off ...)
If it was a bad fuel pump would i have bad idle while driving ?
All the maintenance is up to date, new plugs, fuel filter all done this summer blah blah blah...
Please help ;-(
Last edited by andrei3333; 10-02-2007 at 04:58 PM.
10-02-2007, 06:07 PM
#2
could be a couple things things
-slowly dieing fuel pump
-coolant temperature sensor
but i have my money on the coolant temp sensor
same thing was happening to me, one minute it would start fine
next start will be just cranking and cranking, then ill give it a quick pause, then is will start right up
-slowly dieing fuel pump
-coolant temperature sensor
but i have my money on the coolant temp sensor
same thing was happening to me, one minute it would start fine
next start will be just cranking and cranking, then ill give it a quick pause, then is will start right up
10-02-2007, 08:29 PM
#10
10-02-2007, 08:33 PM
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Why would the starter draw more current all of the sudden ? its never been touched, please explain...
I will try to get a video of this tomorrow morning, but its like when i turn the key, i hear the starter go chee chee chee and it catches right on, i see the RPM go up, and right away its like the car dies, i let the key go, try again and its on
I will try to get a video of this tomorrow morning, but its like when i turn the key, i hear the starter go chee chee chee and it catches right on, i see the RPM go up, and right away its like the car dies, i let the key go, try again and its on
Last edited by andrei3333; 10-02-2007 at 08:36 PM.
10-02-2007, 08:47 PM
#13
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^^ I heard that from a friend of mine who saids the same thing about a dead spot on the starter,
will it get worse the longer i have this problem?
i am thinking to just keep driving like this until it gets worse so i could better tell what is wrong, cause right one its like every 3-4 starts are bad.
I dont think its the fuel pump cause then my idle speed should be affected, as well as acceleration, and its not, the car drives perfect, like it always drove, just the damn starts
will it get worse the longer i have this problem?
i am thinking to just keep driving like this until it gets worse so i could better tell what is wrong, cause right one its like every 3-4 starts are bad.
I dont think its the fuel pump cause then my idle speed should be affected, as well as acceleration, and its not, the car drives perfect, like it always drove, just the damn starts
10-02-2007, 09:09 PM
#14
Mine went bad and then it just wouldn't start. It got left in the parking lot at work and I had to have it towed home.
If you think it's could be the starter, just take it off, take it to part-source or Canadian tire or whatever and have them bench test it. They will be able to tell you right away. If it's bad, 250 for a new one (IIRC) and your good to go. Your in Canada, so get the champion one... 3 year warranty. That's what I did and the first one went bad in 8 months. Warranty replacement FTW!
It's pretty easy to remove the starter... I think the hardest part was breaking those stubborn bolts off.
lmk.
If you think it's could be the starter, just take it off, take it to part-source or Canadian tire or whatever and have them bench test it. They will be able to tell you right away. If it's bad, 250 for a new one (IIRC) and your good to go. Your in Canada, so get the champion one... 3 year warranty. That's what I did and the first one went bad in 8 months. Warranty replacement FTW!
It's pretty easy to remove the starter... I think the hardest part was breaking those stubborn bolts off.
lmk.
10-02-2007, 09:14 PM
#15
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Since thats what my first line of thought was i have looked into it, locally i found a place thats sells a new one for 155 or 165 cant remember with a 1 year warranty.
I have read the FSM and motorvade and another writeup so i know its not a problem for me to replace it, i cant however drive to CT or part source while my car is taken apart to test it, thats a problem i am was thinking about before too...
I have read the FSM and motorvade and another writeup so i know its not a problem for me to replace it, i cant however drive to CT or part source while my car is taken apart to test it, thats a problem i am was thinking about before too...
10-02-2007, 09:17 PM
#16
Call a cab or get a friend to drive you.
take the bus?
there are many options...
Get ghetto and do it in the parking lot.
At least if your doing that and you forget a tool, Crappy tire will have it.
take the bus?
there are many options...
Get ghetto and do it in the parking lot.
At least if your doing that and you forget a tool, Crappy tire will have it.
10-02-2007, 09:25 PM
#17
Why would the starter draw more current all of the sudden ? its never been touched, please explain...
I will try to get a video of this tomorrow morning, but its like when i turn the key, i hear the starter go chee chee chee and it catches right on, i see the RPM go up, and right away its like the car dies, i let the key go, try again and its on
I will try to get a video of this tomorrow morning, but its like when i turn the key, i hear the starter go chee chee chee and it catches right on, i see the RPM go up, and right away its like the car dies, i let the key go, try again and its on
Low starter current problems are caused by excessive resistance in a connection, battery cable, or solenoid switch contacts, so check your connections and the voltage drop on your cables as well. Your drop should be no more than .2v - .5v
Last edited by 67whitegoat; 10-02-2007 at 09:37 PM.
10-02-2007, 09:34 PM
#18
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Thanks but those travel options are kinda hard for me to pull off at the moment
When i replaced the battery there was some deposit that formed on the +ve terminal which i have never seen before, last time i worked on my car was the summer (june) and the terminals were clean. When i connected the new battery today i made sure to clean the terminals and put em on nice and tight.
basically here is what i have come down to:
bad starter - will get worse and not start at all eventually (i wil ltest this first by not doing anything over the next few day to a week to see if it starts screetching or fails to start at all)
Bad ground - need to run wire from starter to -ve battery terminal (i havend done any major work on my car so its unaltered, i dont see how this could be it)
Ignition switch - turn the key and get nothing, keep trying to start the car (This is when nothing happens which is not the case, because the car always starts, just had a bad time trying)
sensors like coolant and crank - usually throw a code, and i have none, temperature is showing fine and cel is off so this cant be the problems yet
bad fuel pump - would affect idle, would make me hit the gas to start the car every time, which i dont, cause the car starts fine 3 of 4 times
SO::::: my best bet SO far is a dead spot on the starter
When i replaced the battery there was some deposit that formed on the +ve terminal which i have never seen before, last time i worked on my car was the summer (june) and the terminals were clean. When i connected the new battery today i made sure to clean the terminals and put em on nice and tight.
basically here is what i have come down to:
bad starter - will get worse and not start at all eventually (i wil ltest this first by not doing anything over the next few day to a week to see if it starts screetching or fails to start at all)
Bad ground - need to run wire from starter to -ve battery terminal (i havend done any major work on my car so its unaltered, i dont see how this could be it)
Ignition switch - turn the key and get nothing, keep trying to start the car (This is when nothing happens which is not the case, because the car always starts, just had a bad time trying)
sensors like coolant and crank - usually throw a code, and i have none, temperature is showing fine and cel is off so this cant be the problems yet
bad fuel pump - would affect idle, would make me hit the gas to start the car every time, which i dont, cause the car starts fine 3 of 4 times
SO::::: my best bet SO far is a dead spot on the starter
Last edited by andrei3333; 10-02-2007 at 09:36 PM.
10-02-2007, 09:47 PM
#19
SO::::: my best bet SO far is a dead spot on the starter
If it were a dead spot, the car would not start (possibly intermittently). The starter would just click, once. The starter may be the culprit, but not from a dead spot in the windings.
10-02-2007, 09:52 PM
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^^^ thats exactly what happens, i heard like a click it SORT of a single crank and nothing happens, all the dash lights are still on, i let the key go, wait a few seconds, try again and it starts
dammit i cant wait tyll the morning to try to take a video of this, its kinda hard to explain correctly
Also sometimes its like the car gets a kick, as if the starter doesnt want to start, but something makes it turn over and the car quickly starts.
I just never had a starter go bad on any other car so i dont know what to look for, i saw one video of a local guy who's starter would chee chee chee very for a long time and then it would start but thats not what is happening here
dammit i cant wait tyll the morning to try to take a video of this, its kinda hard to explain correctly
Also sometimes its like the car gets a kick, as if the starter doesnt want to start, but something makes it turn over and the car quickly starts.
I just never had a starter go bad on any other car so i dont know what to look for, i saw one video of a local guy who's starter would chee chee chee very for a long time and then it would start but thats not what is happening here
10-02-2007, 10:09 PM
#22
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Guys i really appreciate your patience and help, its incredible that a single interest brings us, random folks over the internet together.
I will get back to you guys tomorrow hopefully with a video before i go spending money on a starter or anything else
I will get back to you guys tomorrow hopefully with a video before i go spending money on a starter or anything else
10-03-2007, 07:42 AM
#23
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hey guys i got a video of the problem
I could not make it happen the first 5 starts or so, this is in the morning when the car is cold, so i drove once around the block and tried again, it happened right away, so i guess this is a warm/hot problem
The key is turned all the way all the time
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2b6-nN0mr4c
I could not make it happen the first 5 starts or so, this is in the morning when the car is cold, so i drove once around the block and tried again, it happened right away, so i guess this is a warm/hot problem
The key is turned all the way all the time
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2b6-nN0mr4c
10-03-2007, 08:58 AM
#28
Andruxa, first off, a ground connection can go bad without you having to alter it. Second, the ECTS is the sensor, while the the thing that reads the temperature for gauge on the dash is the sender (the two aren't related). If you're having trouble with warm (or partially warm starts), then the ECTS is a cheap ($30) and easy fix. However, I've seen the problem in the video before. It turned out to be a bad ground, which was fixed by grounding the stater to the tranny and then to the negative terminal.
10-03-2007, 09:06 AM
#29
10-03-2007, 09:18 AM
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hey man
That video looks a little different, his car did not catch on at all, the starter was just spinning there for some time, mine seems to be almost catching on, i duno
The cheapest solution is to buy some ground wire and attach it to one of the bolts on the starter to the -ve battery terminal. I guess i should try that first as its cheap.
I also think that sensors would throw codes first, no ?
That video looks a little different, his car did not catch on at all, the starter was just spinning there for some time, mine seems to be almost catching on, i duno
The cheapest solution is to buy some ground wire and attach it to one of the bolts on the starter to the -ve battery terminal. I guess i should try that first as its cheap.
I also think that sensors would throw codes first, no ?
10-03-2007, 01:57 PM
#32
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Wow, post # 18 impressed me andrei, you're coming along quite nicely 
I'm 8/10 for starter as well, however if it was me..........
I'd remove the starter, completely remove and sand/wirebrush/wirewheel both connections on the starter and the starter itself where it mates to the bellhousing, and the bellhousing, as well as clean the battery terminals. Than I'd test the ects (fsm). This is all assuming tune-up is recent. It really doesn't sound like the grounding issue to me, it sounds like a weak starter.
I'm 8/10 for starter as well, however if it was me..........
I'd remove the starter, completely remove and sand/wirebrush/wirewheel both connections on the starter and the starter itself where it mates to the bellhousing, and the bellhousing, as well as clean the battery terminals. Than I'd test the ects (fsm). This is all assuming tune-up is recent. It really doesn't sound like the grounding issue to me, it sounds like a weak starter.
10-03-2007, 02:24 PM
#34
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My starter just failed on me.
I put the key in the ignition and bam- nothing.
No screetching, no nothing.
The battery is fine, and the maintnance is supposedly up to date, but I'm taking it to one of the top garages in the area to make sure its all in tip top shape.
I put the key in the ignition and bam- nothing.
No screetching, no nothing.
The battery is fine, and the maintnance is supposedly up to date, but I'm taking it to one of the top garages in the area to make sure its all in tip top shape.
10-03-2007, 06:33 PM
#35
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Thanks KRRZ350 and every one else
Starter is dead, BANG, just like that, barely got home but the maxima did NOT leave me stranded, took like 5 tries to start it but it barely turned over, chee chee chee for the longest time...
Now im gona have to jump through loops in order not to miss work,
Option #1: pay $160 to get a rebuilt one from a private mech, never deal with these guys before so cant know if they rebuilt it good or not - 1 year of warranty. Its in stock ready for pick up
option #2 canadian tire/partsource (basically big chain stores) hopefully they have it in stock $250 + tax but its also a rebuilt one, dont remember what warranty but i think they can be trusted more than a private mech.
Option #3 Dealer: brand spankin new starter, 399 original 360 if i return mine + a discount since im a torontomaxima.com club member ~$330 + tax unknown warranty and probably not in stock.
I need one thursday morning to make it to work by 1pm, whats my best choice?
Starter is dead, BANG, just like that, barely got home but the maxima did NOT leave me stranded, took like 5 tries to start it but it barely turned over, chee chee chee for the longest time...
Now im gona have to jump through loops in order not to miss work,
Option #1: pay $160 to get a rebuilt one from a private mech, never deal with these guys before so cant know if they rebuilt it good or not - 1 year of warranty. Its in stock ready for pick up
option #2 canadian tire/partsource (basically big chain stores) hopefully they have it in stock $250 + tax but its also a rebuilt one, dont remember what warranty but i think they can be trusted more than a private mech.
Option #3 Dealer: brand spankin new starter, 399 original 360 if i return mine + a discount since im a torontomaxima.com club member ~$330 + tax unknown warranty and probably not in stock.
I need one thursday morning to make it to work by 1pm, whats my best choice?
10-04-2007, 09:31 AM
#36
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PROBLEM FIXED
maaaann that lower bolt was the biggest BIAaaaaCH, bent my tool, but i can get a new tool
overall took 2 hours for the job, the electrical connectors were sitting on some cooked salt and whatever else it was, could not get them out of the harnesses
Got a "brand new" starter with tax i paid $175 (CAN), had the nissan logo on it, but i cant really believe its brand new, we'll see about that 1 year warranty
other than that, i recomend for anyone trying this to get someone to help them, my dad was a great help, thanks to everyone for helping out!!!
maaaann that lower bolt was the biggest BIAaaaaCH, bent my tool, but i can get a new tool
overall took 2 hours for the job, the electrical connectors were sitting on some cooked salt and whatever else it was, could not get them out of the harnesses
Got a "brand new" starter with tax i paid $175 (CAN), had the nissan logo on it, but i cant really believe its brand new, we'll see about that 1 year warranty
other than that, i recomend for anyone trying this to get someone to help them, my dad was a great help, thanks to everyone for helping out!!!
10-04-2007, 11:09 AM
#38
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I just regreased my starter over the weekend. I had the same problem. The car wouldnt start on 1 of 10 times. The hard part is getting your tools down there to loosen the massive bolts.
The grease was non-existant, so I piled it on. Now the car starts up within 1/2 second.
I would recommend doing it as a maintenance item to anyone that has the same starter and never touched it.
There is a write up in the stickys.
The grease was non-existant, so I piled it on. Now the car starts up within 1/2 second.
I would recommend doing it as a maintenance item to anyone that has the same starter and never touched it.
There is a write up in the stickys.
