HobHayward

Oooooooohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh my confusion ftl

Good to know! I won't be doing anything then...

NmexMAX

iTrader: (22)

I still think the 5th gen box is superior to the 4th gen.


I'd retro a 5th gen airbox to my 5th gen before i would ever retro a 4th gen to my 5th gen.

Cdg2125

iTrader: (7)

thank you for the backup ha. Can't wait to install my 5th gen box in my car this weekend.

DCZC

Can someone post pics of the differences between the 5th gen box/setup VS. the 4th gen. I am also new , but I have modded several cars in my day and I cant understand how cooler air with smoother flow could be a bad thing? LT members please help me grasp this as I have always seen decent gaing fron a DIY/ aftermkt CIA's on various previously owned vehicles
Thanks in advance,

NmexMAX

iTrader: (22)

If you have a 4th gen, you can open the hood and get a look. Here are a few pics of the 5g.
http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=543775&page=2

There a few pics of the 4th gen in there.

dr-rjp

iTrader: (4)

I made an interesting discovery regarding this booster fan mod. For the heck of it, I left off the fan to see how much just the extra air inlet contributed to the improved air flow. Surprisingly, the tubes without the fan improved the performance by 75 percent.

Now, when the engine is warm, the fan does not add that much of an improvement above and beyond the extra air inlet. However, when the engine is cold and the fuel-air mixture is enriched, the blower does provide that extra boost at the low end.

My guess is that there is a point of diminishing returns regarding the total volume of intake air that the MAF can read. The extra air that the blower provides when the engine is at operating temperature does not seem to significantly change the MAF readings beyond what it has already sensed from the extra air provided by the added intake.

Now, there is a chip that some people install to fool the MAF or the IAT into thinking that the intake air is cooler than it really is. That chip might be of use here in conjunction with the blower.

It is certainly worth a try, but for now, I'm happy with the added zing that the unboosted air provides without the added noise of the blower.

I'll attach some photos of the setup later on tonight or tomorrow.

HobHayward

I'm pretty sure the losses are not from too much air... Unless you want to tell me the fan puts out more pressure than a turbo?


And 75% performance improvement? What number is that? Are you saying the fan limited the HP to 50? =0

MorpheusZero

iTrader: (10)

Stop giving advice.

You have no idea what you're talking about.

I'll give you an example:

The stock intake box has three openings. One goes to the snorkel, one goes to the resonator and one goes to the throttle body. If you are performing your "hair dryer" test the engine is certainly not going to be under any significant load, it will be idling with the throttle plate almost all the way shut, but my guess is you performed the test with the car off. Either way, the throttle body will be accepting very little to no airflow. So you see, the intake box really only has two openings in this situation. IF YOU FORCE AIR IN ONE, IT WILL COME OUT THE OTHER, NO MATTER HOW YOU ARRANGE THE TUBES ATTACHED TO THEM.

And when you say "the performance improved by 75 percent," you need to reference something. I don't care what you did to the intake setup of a 4th gen, you are not going to get 75% more power than stock with anything short of forced induction.

The MAF does not sense how cool the intake charge is, the IAT sensor does that. They perform completely separate functions, and you are rambling on regarding something you clearly know nothing about.

Did you see that guy who wanted to route his exhaust directly back into his intake since turbos were not 100% efficient? You are that guy, but for the .org instead of the Vette forums.

chillin014

iTrader: (67)

VQrebuild96

iTrader: (1)

LMFAO!

dr-rjp

iTrader: (4)

You have not been listening to anything I've been saying, so stop making clueless remarks

Let me break it down for you. Case in point:

The stock intake "BOX" has two openings: one before the filter, and one after it going into the MAF.

Guess what? I'm not talking about the freakin' "BOX."

I'm talking about the three parts of the intake tube:

1. The snorkel through which comes outside air that is then routed to the resonator connector.
2. The resonator connector consists of a elbow tube with one end fitted to the bottom of the intake tube
   opening and the other end fitted to the resonator. Air goes into and out of the resonator.
3. The end of the intake tube through which the outside air enters into the bottom half of the "BOX"

Yes, the "BOX" does have TWO OPENINGS. Amazing.

But, again, I'm not talking about the freakin' "BOX" but the intake tube.

Got it? NO BOX.

What I was referencing concerned removing the elbow tube from the intake bottom and blocking off the hole because it is a drain on the overall air flow. It's sole mission is to quiet the noise from the intake.

Now, some people thought that this opening left behind in the intake tube might be a good place to input more air into the intake, even with some people attaching long dryer vents hoses to them and then to the outside thinking they would have some kind of RAM effect.

Well, NOT. because, as you will see what I meant about using the hair dryer, the opening is designed to route air directly INTO THE RESONATOR. If you blow air up into it, you will be reversing the normal path and the air will go straight out the mouth of the snorkel, and not towards the intake "BOX"

That is why I suggested using a blower source like a hair dryer AS A TEST to show yourself exactly how useless this opening is for routing incoming air. When you blow air through the resonator opening in the intake, the air goes up and out the front of the snorkel.


Are you dyslexic or something? I was referencing the performance of my modded intake that consisted of a hollowed out snorkel body, a closed off resonator outlet, sawing off a middle section of the intake tube so that I could attach a three-way PVC plumbing pipe tap to it.

The snorkel end of the intake gets connected to the front of the straight pipe, the rear intake end connects to the back of the straight pipe, and then a 3" axial blower is attached to the bottom of the curved tube that enters the straight pipe at the middle at a 35 degree angle. All connections are wrapped with black duct tape.

The straight PVC pipe provides a normal route for intake air to flow with the curved pipe below it pumping in extra air from the outside assisted by the blower.

Where the 75 percent comes in is what happens if you leave off the booster fan and let the third inlet provide additional naturally aspirated air.

The system works and does what it is supposed to do, which is to bring in a lot more outside air (that is cooler that any air under the hood)

What I learned by removing the booster fan, is that it was only contributing 25% of the total extra intake air flow made by my intake system, and that by removing it, you will still have a system that gives you 75% of the original amount of extra air provided by the blower-assisted system.


You are the one rambling again. The MAF senses
air flow by measuring how much cooler a heated wire inside its cone becomes when the intake air passes over it. It then sends out an analog voltage signal that measures the drop in wire temperature.

Quick quiz: how many ways can you cool off the wire in the MAF? Answer: three. Either increase the air flow, decrease the air temperature, or increase the air density.

MAF stands for MASS AIR FLOW and it's hot wire sensor will normally cool off in response to any increase in cool air flow which is what a true CAI and my modded intake do .

Not me. That guy is an example of a person who do stupid things. I'm the guy who does smart things that some people do not understand and whose lack of understanding leads them to criticize what they do not care to know.

chillin014

iTrader: (67)

can you just stop? you've proved your point, your mods are useless...kthnxbye.

NmexMAX

iTrader: (22)

dr-rjp

iTrader: (4)

Someone just said, "Shut up," to my face, and made all kinds of false claims about what I said, and now you want me to be quiet and run off like a wussy with my tail between my legs?

Think again.

If you or anyone else is so gosh-darn sure that my mods are "useless," then let's bet pinks on it. I have the cohones to stand behind what I claim. Do you?

I didn't think so. That's why you and others hide behind the "Get a dyno" excuse as if the dyno is the God of mods.

I have neither the time, the money (several hundred dollars), or the need to do at least three "before" runs and three "after" runs for each of my suggested mods. Now, I really would have be stupid to do all that just to make someone else happy.

Like always, anyone who is interested in trying them out is free to do so (and to PM me for more info) instead of being one of these knee-jerk purists who loves to chastise everyone else to keep their car stock while they themselves slap CAI's, Y-Pipes, Catbacks, underdrive pulleys, Jet chips, VB mods, bigger bore MAFs and TBs, MEVI's, 00VI's, and turbos on theirs.

Call me what you will, but I am not a hypocrite, and I don't go out of my way to insult others.

I'm out.

Cdg2125

iTrader: (7)

THATS HOW YOU FIND OUT IF IT WORKS!!! You can not come on here and say that adding this **** to your air box give you better performance with absolutely no proof at all. It's all your opinion. Without a dyno, which proves the actual gains or loses, they mean ****. We're not the only people in the world that know a dyno is proof. It's the only way to keep conditions near exact and do close to exact runs. If you stand so firmly behind your claims then you shouldn't run from the actual proof and say no i don't need to dyno to know this works.

chillin014

iTrader: (67)

Yeah you would wanna "bet pinks" with me. Haha.
I'm gonna do a little bit of a pissing contest here. I've got a couple grand in worthwhile proven parts and modifications in my car (not jet chips and udp's). I've been a noob at one point so I can sympathize with the desire for more power and wanting to discover your car a little bit.
I have done these pityful mods only to conclude that in reality the power gain is miniscule IF EVEN EXISTANT. Even if there was a gain do you think 5 horsepower is going to be the difference in a race between you and another car?
There is nothing to gain here and arguing against the dyno has just killed any shred of credibility you had before.

If you want to modify your car, hack up your air box, wire up your "jet chip" put a whistle tip on your muffler,stickers,wing, computer fans in your intake, propellers on your front bumper, whatever makes you feel better. But when reality smacks you in the face, you've got two choices, accept it, or be in denial and be criticized.

dr-rjp

iTrader: (4)

First of all, I made one post in response to a request for free and cheap mods. Please re-read the original request.

In that post (please re-read it also), I made absolutely NO PERFORMACE CLAIMS about my mod. That's right. Zero. All I said was that they are cheap and easy mods.

Then, after a retest of my blower mod which found that the blower was not as effective as originally thought, I made a retraction -- which I did not have to do -- to save others the trouble of doing it as described.

I said that, when the engine bay is warm, the mod without the blower was 75 percent as effective with the blower. I apologize for using the word, "performance," as it seems to have confused a few people.


I was merely making an observation about my own experience with the mod, and again, I made no other claim about improved performance other than to say that the effect of the blower mod -- which I said made only a minor improvement at low end -- was only valid when the engine has still cool.

I then went on to speculate as to whether there is a point of diminishing returns regarding how much usable air flow can be made with my mod.

I never said anything about the booster fan acting like a turbo or SC. I never made any reference to any pressure increases.

The whole logic, albeit flawed, behind a GAB is to get more air to pass through the air filter than a stock setup can.

The only thing that my mod is designed to do is to remove the sources of restriction in the stock setup that inhibit the air flow to the TB.

I have sufficiently proven elsewhere that there are some serious, negative pressure drops in the 4th Gen's stock intake, and that my mods have reduced them -- not by using a dyno, but by using the only appropriate device to detect them -- a manometer.

Will that affect your car's performance? Maybe. Maybe not. I never promised any results.

But, there's no way in Hell that i am going to suggest something as a "cheap mod" if it cost me several hundred dollars to verify what I already know from driving with it.

OK. Suppose I had a dyno that showed ACME's CAI produces a maximum 5 HP gain at 5800RPM on a 1995 Maxima SE, what does that tell me about my 1998 I30, or its ability to pull into 40MPH traffic from a stop sign?

OK. One more time. I promised nothing, and nothing ventured is nothing gained.

And, I'm used to being criticized by people who fail to fully read my posts.

Are we clear now?

This is so, utterly lame, and the thanks I get for volunteering some cheap mods w/o making any unprovable claims to it.

I'm done doing this. It is a thorough waste of my time, as I'm sure it is for those who have to put up with it, too.

Do whatever you want to your cars, I DGAD!

NmexMAX

iTrader: (22)

Do you have cliffs for that?

chillin014

iTrader: (67)

haha dude...i get these updates to my phones email...little screen, lots of

Garrick

How did we go from a simple question about intakes to quotes and passages as long as the bible and a d!ck measuring contest?

MorpheusZero

iTrader: (10)

The specifics do not matter, the principle is the same. You have three openings leading to the same place, block one off, you have two openings. I am not saying that the extra opening would increase performance, I am merely saying that your reasoning is retarded. I guarantee if you disconnect the resonator from the intake tube and run the car it will be sucking air in from the new hole.

I know how it works.

I know why it works.

I know what it stands for. (What did CFM stand for again? )

You are a person who seems like they know what they're doing at first glance, but upon further inspection that is not quite the case. Then there is your english. All in all it's not quite the same as the DEI guy but it's similar enough to make the connection at your expense.

As far as "chastising stock cars," my drivetrain is 100% stock. I chastise BS, half-assed mods, like a golf ball used to plug a hole, unlatching your hood while you drive, or a computer case fan used in the intake tract as a supercharger. A lot of engineers spent a lot of time and money making everything work just right on the car, generally you can't spend five minutes and a few bucks and make it better without being detrimental to something.

dr-rjp

iTrader: (4)

My only mistake is trying to reason with an unreasonable person. No matter what I say, he will continue to twist it. It's not that he is on a different page -- it's more like a different book.

I even get criticized when I admit my mistakes, as I did here regarding the blower fan, and as I did with the high Cubic Flow per Meter computer fan (which did make a some difference below 40MPH, but created a huge obstacle from there).

This person thinks that by tearing me down at every opportunity, even on things that I did not do, he builds himself up in the eyes of everyone else.

If others cannot see that, then I cannot explain it any clearer.

What can i say, Morpheus, but you are an Internet bully. I have been using the Internet since 1992, and have met my share.

One of the first online phenomena that I discovered was the "Flame." The Internet allows people to hide behind the safety of their home computer located far away from others and to do, electronically, what they would not do in person -- myself included.

It tends to bring out the worst in people, and as others here have aptly observed, such "street brawls" and "pissing contests" have no place on a website devoted to HELPING people, not HURTING them.

I apologize to everyone who has had to endure this unproductive interchange, and I respectfully ask Morpheus to not burden others with any more of this quid-pro-quo.

I concede defeat. You are right in everything you said.

FYI: I've requested the moderators to suspend my membership to ensure that I do not engage in any more verbal fist-fights. Despite my best attempts to ignore personal attacks, there is something pernicious about reading them online that prompts me to respond against my better judgment.

This is my last post. Period.

NmexMAX

iTrader: (22)

Morpheus is an engineer, not a bully.

chillin014

iTrader: (67)

pmohr

iTrader: (26)

Just a by the way, since you made the effort of bolding it out above...

CFM, in common usage for most things, but especially for computer fan equipment stands for cubic feet per minute, not cubic flow per meter...