wikidminds

setup- Tein S-Techs
KYB AGX Adjustables
Eibach Camber Bolts
19'' rims
140XXX miles on stock suspension (minus springs/shocks)

When i first dropped my car 3 years ago on the above setup, i spent the extra money to get a 3 year unlimited alignment plan from Tire Kingdom.
I religiously took my car every 6months for an alignment. According to the specs sheet they print out for me and what the Technician says, they all say "your camber is fine but your toe is off". I always heard that from them.

So today, i decided to check my tires, and as you can see with the attached pictures, my tires are due for replacement.
Does anyone know what can cause such wear?

My question is, "would toe cause my tire to wear the way it is?"
Also, what do i need to do to keep my toe "in check"?

internetautomar

iTrader: (30)

if you are getting your car aligned, NOTHING should be out of spec.

alset2

iTrader: (1)

yeh thats toe alright.
that is odd that they tell you your toe is out...thats like the main thing in the front alignment...IDK , iwould ask them why they are not setting the toe??? thats part of an alignment.

wikidminds

Thats pretty obvious, but it is also obvious something is not in spec by the looks of my front tires.

wikidminds

They would adjust Toe and i saw the end results on the specs printout they give me and it was within specs.
But why would my toe always go off?
Whenever i go back for an alignment, toe always happens to be off!

alset2

iTrader: (1)

do you cahnge your camber ??
do you drive on bumpy roads or hit curbs or anything like that?
these things can knock toe out of spec
also , how is your control arm bushings?
does the car "pull" left or right when going t down the road

wikidminds

-i dont mess with camber once its adjusted. if i mess with anything to throw off camber, car gets aligned next day.

-i live in miami, roads where i live arent to bad, there are occasional bumps. but is that enough to continuously throw toe off? is it that easy for it to go out of spec?

-Control arm bushings are stock. Would changing these assist the toes to stay in spec without going off as often as it does?

- car pulls to the right. My steering wheel is also turned a little bit to the right if im going in a straight line. Everytime i leave Tire Kingdom, car doesnt pull, wheel isnt crooked, car is just fine. maybe a couple weeks later, i notice the wheel is crooked and car pulls yet again.

wikidminds

i want to do everything i need to do to my suspension to make sure this isnt an ongoing issue before i drop new tires on my car.

would changing bushings etc help alleviate my toe going off? or is there something else?

B_Eaze

iTrader: (3)

Ball joints maybe. You ever get your control arms changed?

wikidminds

control arms are stock as is everything else besides springs and struts.
im still on a stock susp. nothing has been replaced or changed.

B_Eaze

iTrader: (3)

You should def check your ball joints. You can by LCA's, they come with ball joints and new bushings. That should tighten up your suspension

wikidminds

ok so it would "tighten" it up, but does it directly affect my toe?

i dont want to be sent on a whild goose chase trying to swap out things that are not directly related and will not cure my alignment issues.

i understand that im on a stock suspension and my bushings/LCA/Ball joints etc etc are due for replacement. i will replace them with OEM parts before years end.
i want to know what is causing my uneven wear.....i cant afford any guesses since im a broke nursing student with little time to swap out parts on my car.

B_Eaze

iTrader: (3)

Yes, Ball joints will definitely make you have uneven wear and affect your toe but that doesn't mean that is your problem. When they give you an alignment it won't hold if your ball joints or tie rods are no good. Since you have the alignment package you should go and have them tell you if your ball joints or tie rods are need to be replaced. i'm pretty sure if those are original ball joints they are well over due for changing.

Thats what I would bet on but i could be wrong. Only way to find out is to get the car in the air and check your self or have a shop check for you.

Where are you located? Maybe someone in your area can help you out

dgeesaman

iTrader: (10)

Jeez almighty those are corded something awful.

If the alignment shop keeps finding the toe out every 6 months but can't tell you why I think you need to find a better alignment shop. A good alignment tech will investigate *why* they see bad tire wear and incorrect specs for you. Find a local road racer or autocrosser and see who they go to for alignments.

Re: ball joints and bushings and stuff, I recommend all new OEM control arms. This will get you new bushings and ball joints of the highest quality. I've tried the urethane bushings and aftermarket ball joint replacement but in the end I had to put new Nissan parts on anyway. Also have your steering rack bushings checked (gotta drop the y-pipe and a heat shield to see the pass side bushing) or at least try to pry the rack to see if it will budge side-side in the mountings. The last parts that can affect toe is the tie rods, but again if your alignment tech doesn't notice a loose tie rod they're blind.

Dave

irish44j

iTrader: (38)

yes, worn LBJs would effect your camber and toe - and the movement would probably not be replicated during a static alignment. If you're over about 150k miles, definitely do the LCAs with new balljoints....

Is the cording only on one side of the car, or on both sides? If only one side, it's clearly a camber problem. If it were from being too much toe-out, I would expect to see the cording a few inches toward the middle of the tread, as well as signs of scuffing/scrubbing on the rubber. The cording that far out is almost certainly a camber issue.

This goes back to your LBJs though...if they are shot, your camber will kick out significantly more negative when the car is moving, though it might measure out Ok on an alignment rack when the car is sitting still.

Also I see you're using camber bolts....I'm not a big fan of camber bolts, personally. They have a tendancy to be able to move/spin over big bumps or potholes and if one does that it will throw off your camber greatly (and btw, if you camber goes out of whack, the toe will change as a result.) I personally would NEVER use camber bolts on my car, no matter how many people use them.

I'm also going to say this again, as I've said many, many times: a 2.2" drop is too much for a 4th/5th gen maxima up front. The control arm angles get too flat and handling is adversely affected. about 1.5" is really the max you should go, IMO...

Also with a 1.5" drop (Eibachs?), you will NOT need a camber adjustment (camber bolts), as it should stay within spec....

in short:

1. Replace your lower balljoints (do the tie rod outer ends while you're at it if you haven't done them previously)

2. Once that's done, get a new alignment.

3. If that doesn't fix the problem, let us know.

oh, and get new tires. Once the cord is showing, your tires are very unsafe to drive on, especially at higher speeds...

Grand_hustle17

iTrader: (22)

irish knows suspension

wikidminds

irish...thanks for the input.
You mention that you are not a camber bolt fan. Then what would you suggest for me?
I do not plan on going to Eibach springs. i love my drop and i will have to pay the price for being that low.
but with s-techs, what camber adjustment would you recommend?

BTW...cording is bilaterally on the front.

alset2

iTrader: (1)

lots of good advice here, especially about if your shop doesnt know whats wrong ,take it somewhere else!
doing an alignment is pretty straight forward. the first thing they should be checking is for lose suspension components( ball joints, rod ends, ext) seeing how it is very hard to do an alignment with things moving around on you. the reason I mention the lca bushings is becuase they can get soft befor they actually fail so when the toe is set ,its ok, but under driving conditions they give.
although it seems there is something missing here, I just cant put my finger on it. wierd...

btw ... might not ask the road racers about alignments, on most cars we use the old string and ruler method. its kind of hard to haul an alignment machine to the track

wikidminds

so i wll abandon tire kingdom...(the deal was sooo good to turn down)
ive spoken to a buddy of mine who does his 240's alignment at a specialzied alignment shop. as for now, im definitely changing out susp.parts.

irish44j

iTrader: (38)

I will admit that I have aligned the maxima using my Longacre alignment bar and a level, but usually I just use it for the Jeep (since it doesn't matter much)

The maxima....I just take it to Sears, usually..

Go to a shop that has a Hunter alignment rack.....Hunter's site will tell you what places near you have their gear. I believe that most/all Sears Automotive shops use Hunter alignment machines....

dgeesaman

iTrader: (10)

When you count the heat cycles on your tires and not tread depth, set toe at each track by turn-in characteristics and braking stability, and you only need your tires to last 20 laps, it's a slightly different situation...

alset2

iTrader: (1)

true that!
tread depth not an issue, especiallly seeing how the tires are shaved down anyway.( except for rains). we usaually ran a 3mm toe-in across the board though.i used camber and caster changes to tweak for each track and then depending on enviromental factors adjusted front and rear sway bars...anyway it seems you get my point.

SCCA???
club or autocross???

JSutter

iTrader: (46)

It looks smooth, so Id say the camber is off. Thats pretty normal with a low drop. Camber cant be changed much from the factory. If nothing is worn out what you can to do is widen one of the 2 strut bolt holes at the bottom of the strut and tilt the top of the tire out. That will add some positive camber. No camber bolts needed. Its not the best way but it sure is the cheapest and easiest.

Delvin

Thats definitely camber wear. If the tires wore out that bad on one edge because of the toe being out the rest of the tire would be feathered and choppy, especially on the opposite edge of the balding wear. Also, if your camber is on the very edge of being within spec on the negative side and you also have worn suspension components it will wear the tire out like yours have in your pics.

And to add to what Irish44j said, look for a shop that has a Hunter machine. The DSP600 is one of the most accurate target type machines out there and nows its starting to become easier to find shops that have them. I know that there are Tire Kingdoms (NTBs too which is owned by them) that have the equipment.

alset2

iTrader: (1)

according to wikidminds, the toe is what is out when he gets an alignment,not the camber.Im not saying it isnt out but damn,it would have to be like -5 degs to get that kind of wear, and I would imagine the front end would hunt around alot to .it would feel pretty scary I would think.
I agree with the feathering but I have seen the same thing befor.It might depend on tire compound, road surfaces ,and driving habits

dgeesaman

iTrader: (10)

Toe in would be harder to notice since it stabilizes the car. The only reason I mentioned toe is because it's been consistently out of spec. It could be camber causing wear too if the balljoints are bad and the measurement isn't wrong in the static condition.

In any case everyone's recommended path forward is the same.

Alset2, I wish I was competing on the track. I do SCCA autocrossing with my RX-7 and a few HPDEs. The serious track stuff will have to wait until after I turn in a small slip of paper with numbers on it for a large cardboard check. I just bought some track brake pads at $187 for the front, and they weren't the most expensive option by far. (!) Doing serious track stuff will cost in a weekend what I spend on my car in year.

Dave

alset2

iTrader: (1)

BElieve me I understand about the $$$! I actually spent most of my years at the track working jsut so I could use someones car once in a while.great times I tell ya. I havent been to the track myself since about '03, but from 92 till then I was at a track 3 weekends out of the month.
save some money, get your permit ( i guess its still two schools??) and get that rx into an IT class!!!

97SEdriver

iTrader: (3)

I've corded my fronts with a dropped suspension, and it was the toe that was out, not the camber, and they're not feathered much differently.
And I'm on progress, so I'm not slammed on coilovers either

QNO_A32

iTrader: (7)

OP...what kind of tires are they and how many miles did you get out of them. not for nothing, but they do look pretty beat up all around. but you def got a lil neg camber o maybe toe out.

hott_nikkelzz

iTrader: (1)

Doesn't "look" like a toe problem (well at least not on its own)... toe being off with camber in spec will cause much more even wear across the tire as the entire surface of the tread will just be dragged along the pavement. Looks very much like a camber problem... are both front tires the same? That looks just like a car that came in today... with only -1.5 degrees of camber out. If you have the alignment printouts... post them up... that will help out.

Again... assuming front end is tight... most importantly tie-rods (inner and outer), bj's and possibly bearings (unlikely)

Delvin

I can see how this can be a toe problem seeing that the cords are showing on a tire thats almost completely bald. wikidminds' tires has more tread on them and has the cords showing. I bet your toe or camber was out slightly at one point and set an uneven wear pattern in the tires that made the cords show on the inside like that.

wikidminds

i bought rims and tires from a buddy with ~60% thread life. they are kumho ecstas. when i initially slapped on my maxima, they were evenly worn across.

wikidminds

So today i bought 2 LCA, 2 outer tie rod ends, end link bushing and sway bar bushings...all OEM!

next week im gonna slap em on there and get an alignment. Lets see how they help my wearing problem.
The thing is, im going to end up riding around on some stock 16"s for a while. Reason being, i dont have the money to throw out on 2 brand new tires. i also wanted to repaint the 2 front rims before i slap the tires on there.($100 each,clear coat is peeling)

im going to try and dig up some alignment specs, scan them and post them.

hott_nikkelzz

iTrader: (1)

hold on to them for now. For like .5 hours of labor... get a good shop to evaluate your front end... everything that you just bought (sway bars got no affect on alignment). Than replace only what NEEDS to be replaced. Than align. First get specs up.

dgeesaman

iTrader: (10)

I disagree. If you have the parts and plan to keep the car for a long time, install them all now.

Two reasons: one, the existing parts have a lot of mileage and are probably nearing the end of their service life if they aren't already shot, and two when the other parts finally wear out you'll destroy another pair of tires and need another alignment again. No point in getting 4 alignments over the next 50k and tearing apart the front suspension 4 times just because you waited for each part to wear out.

wikidminds

i plan on keeping my car for a loooooong time. she only has 140k miles on the clock. So, i will swap out all bushing/parts needed as part of maintnance.