I just bought my max of a orger here and none of us cant fingure out why the windows and the central lock don't work in the back . I swaped the interior from my car so it cant be any switches, anyone has a idea what should i look for ? its a 1999 GXE

 

Central lock meaning what? The door locks don't physically work, they won't unlock from the master switch? Or do you mean the child safety locks?

So neither of the rear windows work? From their own switches, or from the master switch?

Have you checked for power at the rear? What sort of diagnostics have you even done?

 

They wont open from neither the master switch or the switch in the back its self for both windows, by the lock i mean that when you want to close or open them from the master switch only the front ones work . Im not sure how to check for the power or what cable it is .

 

You check using a multimeter.

W/R wire going to the rear switch controls, should be B+.

 

so white/ red wire ? and what do you mean by B+? is there any fuses i should worry about ?

 

Yes, White/Red. B+ == battery voltage.

There is a fuse, but it provides power to all of the doors. Since the front two work (as we're led to assume), it's not going to be the fuse or the circuit breaker.

 

yes both of the fron windows and locks work . it doesnt look like theres power to the switches at all the light in both of the doesnt light up.

 

ok so both back doors have no power . what can i do now ?

 

Do you know if they did anything immediately prior to the rear doors losing power? Install a system, anything like that?

The power all branches out at connector M3, in the driver's side kickpanel. '99 EL-320.

You're going to have to trace from there where the power is being lost. There's a connector for each door harness in the B pillars, check there first.

 

I was all set to answer this without actually looking into it but I thought better of it.

I looked at the schematics for the window system and found that it is more sophisticated than I would have thought. As pmohr suggested there is a fuseable link and a circuit breaker that supply power to run the windows which must be OK if any of them work, however, there are two more fuses that go to the body control module which apparently has something to do with the opening of the windows.

I also notice there is a diagnostic mode IV that can be run to check the operation of the system.

I'm sorry I don't have any actual answers for you, I am just trying to participate without actually getting in the way. I bow to pmohr, and others', superior experience with such matters.

 

Exactly. Well, without the data lines going to the BCM, IIRC neither the windows or the locks will work. Even if you run just power straight to the individual LCUs of the LR, RF, or RR door, the windows still won't operate. Could be wrong, though.

I do know that without the data lines working properly, you can neither lock/unlock or operate the windows from the driver's main switch panel, because everything is data signals through the lines. Kind of an overengineered way to do it, IMO. Makes modifications to the system more of a PITA.

Correct with the power routing. The wire is either broken on both sides somewhere between the driver's side kick panel and the respective B pillars, or the connectors are disconnected. More than likely what I'd expect is a system having been installed, and the wires somehow accidentally cut, or if someone has pulled both B pillars (an interior swap, or doing the headliner, etc) that they were just never plugged back in.

 

well the old owner told me that they started acting up after he took out the switches to paint them , but the switches are all changed from my interior and they still dont work , anyone has any idea how do the connectors look like ? how many wires they have ? im look for them when it stops raining over here,

 

Which ones, that connect to the door harnesses?

They should be fairly obvious, they'll be connected to the harness that goes straight into the door (or not, as the case may be).

 

"or if someone has pulled both B pillars (an interior swap, or doing the headliner, etc) that they were just never plugged back in."
i mean how many connectors is there ? the one that goes straight to the switches ? and more in the b pillar .

 

i know the headliner is different now so there had to be someone working on it ...

 

As far as I can tell, there should only be one main harness side connector that goes to the door harnesses.

 

so i should be looking for it under the plastic cover for the seat belts ?

 

I notice that the signals for the rear windows pass through the B1-M4 connection which is somewhere on the left side behind the fuse panel by the left knee.

I also notice that this is one of only a few connections accompanied by a warning about tampering with the connection and how important it is that it be secure.

I see no other connection points except at the switched themselves. I don't have a FSM available but I do subscribe to Autozone's AlldataDIY site and the info there appears to be derived from a FSM.

 

The FSM is freely available, just see my sig.

The signals are irrelevant here, since they're not getting power at all. And actually, the data lines never touch M4 at all. They go straight from the BCM to the door subharnesses.

The power line runs through E101/M3 at the driver's side kickpanel, then B20/D51 (LR) / B17/D71 (RR), which are the connectors to the door subharnesses located in the B pillar. From there, the door subharness goes to D53 (LR) / D73 (RR), which are the actual switches.

 

I see the connections that you mention (E101/M3 etc) but if you look on the 4th page (EL-WINDOW-04 in my reference) it clearly shows the data lines passing through those main connectors (B1/M4).

I guess I was figuring that power was too easy and was looking for something a little further outside the box.

I will take a look for the FSM you mention, cause if I had that I could let my Alldata subscription expire.

 

Ah, I see, they've got it kind of hidden off in a corner there.

 

I downloaded the FSM, thank you very much, and found the connections I mentioned on EL-199 (page 1403).

I saw your reply and would also point out the data connections as well as the power connections (upper left corner), go through those connectors.

It would seem that if the problem isn't a simple loss of power, that a code IV diagnostic should be attempted, do you concur pmohr?

There's no telling how much more trouble I can get into now that I have the FSM, I am in your debt pmohr.

 

ok so i checked again today using my friends tool, and it looks like i do have power in the connector for the switches . the door still dont open or the windows . what can it be if its not the power ?

 

It would seem that the other thing that would interfere with their operation are the lines that communicate with the Body Control Module. It's not a simple "switch operates a motor" arrangement. The switch informs the BCM that you wish to move the window and it does the rest "remotely".

I doubt that the BCM itself is at fault but more likely one of the connections to it. Please see my posts above. They can be thought of as "power" wires in-so-far-as they need to be properly connected for the unit to work.

One other thing I noticed is that both windows and locks ground through points B16 and B19 so it would pay to confirm that those grounds are intact. One way to test is to run a wire to a known good ground and touch the other end to pin 12 of the window switch.

 

Did you not check properly before, or is your multimeter just broken? You did check the W/R wire, correct?

Have you ensured that the harness connector is fully seating and locking into the switch?

 

multimeter was broken , plus my friend was checking this time and he knows a lil about the electrical staff. he tried doing something with a fuse , he said its something to go around the switch , the windows still didtnt open neither did the doors.yes i made sure the switches are in, and the door harness in b pillar

 

What did your friend use for a ground when he checked the switch? If it was to the body of the car directly then that only proves that you've got power it will not confirm that the ground to the switch is OK. See my post just prior to pmohrs' last one.

 

i took a car to a shop today and the guy checked everything, he said theres power and ground but something is weird about it , he coulnt fix it , now i have no idea what to do . any ideas ? when checked the motor in the left back side by connecting negative and positive , the window opened and closed, i have no idea what to do now ,... any ideas ?

 

I just want to say Hi as a new member

 

Trying to get the post count up?

What did he say was 'weird' about it?

Have you checked continuity of the data lines to the BCM? Done any of the IVMS diagnostics?

 

What did he say was 'weird' about it?

Have you checked continuity of the data lines to the BCM? Done any of the IVMS diagnostics?What he said.

At the risk of being a PIA, did the garage check the ground at the switch, at the proper terminals?

If you do all the things that pmohr and myself have suggested then the only thing that remains is the BCM. I would check it for bad capacitors and bad solder joints. Or as most people would do, swap in a known good one.

 

to be honest i have no idea what he did , a friend of mine told me he was good, but i guess thats not really true, all i know when he was checking with a multimeter , there was power and ground , then he said something that one cable made a wierd noise when touched it with the multimeter, but i have no idea what he was talking about , i never did anything like this before , i have to look for a shop that does work like this ....

 

Speak English. What are "central locks"? Our cars don't have central locks, they have power locks.

 

ok thx .. and this is this helping me solve the problem ?

 

I'm not sure if "this is this" helping you - but I'm hoping it is helping you because I am asking you to define what you mean by 'central locks'. Central locks is what old Volvos had - you would lock/unlock the front driver side door lock and all the locks would go up and down. Our cars have power locks, not central locks. Did you mean to say power locks, or do you mean something else?

 

yes i meant power locks , sorry i didn't know there's a difference. still didnt solve the problem didnt have time or money to bring the car to some good shop , just did my axle today....