Lowering your car?
10-12-2009, 05:09 PM
#1
Lowering your car?
I have been doing some research and have been thinking about lowering my car. What parts would i need to lower my car? I imagine I would need springs and shocks. Anything else? and how much this run me?
10-12-2009, 05:27 PM
#2
what sorta research have you been doing? Looking at pictures doesn't count.
Springs yes.
Shocks/ struts Yes If you want a decent ride quality.
Assorted bushing? Most likely the shock insulating rubber bushing. Yes.
Maybe upper strut mounts.
are you gonna do this yourself? Jack/stands/ assorted metric sockets/ breaker bar/ air impact tools/ alignment shop/ spring compressor/ safety glasses/ torque wrench/ liquid wrench.
or take it in?
Parts I would guess around 4-500. Depending on if you bought the springs used.
If you want coilovers your going to spend more.
anything else I can spoon feed you?
lol
Springs yes.
Shocks/ struts Yes If you want a decent ride quality.
Assorted bushing? Most likely the shock insulating rubber bushing. Yes.
Maybe upper strut mounts.
are you gonna do this yourself? Jack/stands/ assorted metric sockets/ breaker bar/ air impact tools/ alignment shop/ spring compressor/ safety glasses/ torque wrench/ liquid wrench.
or take it in?
Parts I would guess around 4-500. Depending on if you bought the springs used.
If you want coilovers your going to spend more.
anything else I can spoon feed you?
lol
10-12-2009, 07:02 PM
#4
10-12-2009, 07:35 PM
#6
The key in lowering your car is you get what you pay for. If you buy cheap ebay crap your car may ride like crap. May being the key word here. What rides like crap to me , maybe great for you. Its all a personal preference.
10-13-2009, 04:44 AM
#9
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Location: Worcester, MA
Posts: 4,011
Been thinkin about droppin my car for awhile cuz i want to take corners a lil easier...maybe even invest in a sway bar as well
. But in Boston there are too many potholes and i think its ridiculous seeing all the ppl in their dropped Hondas maneuvering around potholes like an obstacle course
For that reason i dont want to drop mine.I think it depends on the conditions of the roads where u live and how much crap u wanna put up wit
10-13-2009, 07:48 AM
#11
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Worcester, MA
Posts: 4,011
!!! Whas that u man lol
10-13-2009, 09:46 AM
#12
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Maryland
Posts: 1,380
10-13-2009, 10:03 AM
#13
Just cause your going lower doesnt require you to go 3" slam automatically...
There are alot of advantages for lowering your car, if you get some H&R springs, you can run stock struts and its a VERY mild drop...perfect for someone that doesnt want to "hinder" their car useles at ever speed bump...
There is plenty of information on here...get educated and make a purchase
10-13-2009, 11:53 AM
#14
Wow at this thread.
Don't be cheap on suspension... Its suspension...
Just like tires.
Get a good set of shocks
And a good set of springs
mahanddeem? Wtf are you talking about..
Looks silly? Personally I think Maxima has a terrible stock ride height, it sits higher than my dads impala, and for a car that is claimed as a "4 door sports car" You have to do something about it.
And useless? Idk maybe. Depends if you just comute to work or you actually like to drive your car. In that case if lowering your car is useless why did you even register to Maxima.org. Where 99% of the people here mod there cars. Before I started modding I would just get on and read up on maintanance things. But I don't think I would have given my opinion on something like that.
Back to the suspension thing.
Before I even knew much about these cars. the first mod I did (because I hated the look of stock ride height) Was suspension.
Of course my shocks were going out bad so I needed to replace them anyway, and replacing stock parts with stock parts is boring, old, and well just not fun at all.
My car has 250k miles on it, stock bushings, Lowered on KYB AGX's (they were used with 5k miles on them, I've probably put 20k myself, no problems with them at all) Got a set of Intrax springs, with a custom drop rate - 1.8" in front, 1.6" in back, and personally I think it's not low enough. It still sits higher than my brothers stock 300zx
but they were also used. No problem what so ever. I also live in Iowa, been through two winters with them already. and the roads here are about 10 years old and have pot holes everywhere you look, I've drilled pot holes and no problems what so ever. Probably going to get poly bushings here soon to stiffen it up a tad more.
If you're asking what's the difference between coilovers and shock/spring set-up then I'd highly suggest following Conrad283 advice, and www.google.com is a good place to start.
That's because they buy there shocks/struts off ebay, or get ebay coilovers. I've seen a civic with a bunch of ebay stuff like coilovers sway bars etc. out run my *** in back rural areas and his **** looks like it's going to pop off the ground whe he hits a pot hole. and he's blown a few of them. So....
Some cars you can be cheap and get away with it. some not so much.
I promise you the second you upgrade your suspension you're going to no longer care about pot holes. I've learned the smooth ways home, and around town and those are now the fun ways home, and around town. The first time you take a off-ramp hauling *** with your new set-up you're never going to leave them stock on any car you buy the rest of your life. although that's all at your own risk.
Don't rule out suspension just because pot holes. Just go fast enough so you float over them.
Don't be cheap on suspension... Its suspension...
Just like tires.
Get a good set of shocks
And a good set of springs
why do you make your car more liable for suspension problems ? and also in my opinion , a lowered car looks really silly,just useless .........
Looks silly? Personally I think Maxima has a terrible stock ride height, it sits higher than my dads impala, and for a car that is claimed as a "4 door sports car" You have to do something about it.
And useless? Idk maybe. Depends if you just comute to work or you actually like to drive your car. In that case if lowering your car is useless why did you even register to Maxima.org. Where 99% of the people here mod there cars. Before I started modding I would just get on and read up on maintanance things. But I don't think I would have given my opinion on something like that.
Back to the suspension thing.
Before I even knew much about these cars. the first mod I did (because I hated the look of stock ride height) Was suspension.
Of course my shocks were going out bad so I needed to replace them anyway, and replacing stock parts with stock parts is boring, old, and well just not fun at all.
My car has 250k miles on it, stock bushings, Lowered on KYB AGX's (they were used with 5k miles on them, I've probably put 20k myself, no problems with them at all) Got a set of Intrax springs, with a custom drop rate - 1.8" in front, 1.6" in back, and personally I think it's not low enough. It still sits higher than my brothers stock 300zx
but they were also used. No problem what so ever. I also live in Iowa, been through two winters with them already. and the roads here are about 10 years old and have pot holes everywhere you look, I've drilled pot holes and no problems what so ever. Probably going to get poly bushings here soon to stiffen it up a tad more.If you're asking what's the difference between coilovers and shock/spring set-up then I'd highly suggest following Conrad283 advice, and www.google.com is a good place to start.
Been thinkin about droppin my car for awhile cuz i want to take corners a lil easier...maybe even invest in a sway bar as well .
But in Boston there are too many potholes and i think its ridiculous seeing all the ppl in their dropped Hondas maneuvering around potholes like an obstacle course For that reason i dont want to drop mine.
I think it depends on the conditions of the roads where u live and how much crap u wanna put up wit
But in Boston there are too many potholes and i think its ridiculous seeing all the ppl in their dropped Hondas maneuvering around potholes like an obstacle course For that reason i dont want to drop mine.
I think it depends on the conditions of the roads where u live and how much crap u wanna put up wit
Some cars you can be cheap and get away with it. some not so much.
I promise you the second you upgrade your suspension you're going to no longer care about pot holes. I've learned the smooth ways home, and around town and those are now the fun ways home, and around town. The first time you take a off-ramp hauling *** with your new set-up you're never going to leave them stock on any car you buy the rest of your life. although that's all at your own risk.
Don't rule out suspension just because pot holes. Just go fast enough so you float over them.
Last edited by ZaxWhite97Max; 10-13-2009 at 12:04 PM.
10-13-2009, 07:54 PM
#18
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Lowering your car is something that you really have to put some thought into. If you don't know what you're doing, you're going to waste money and have an awful ride in the end. There are reasons why cars are designed by professional engineers and not Cracker Jack box home mechanics.
10-13-2009, 09:05 PM
#19
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Maryland
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.......Even if I like to argue,I wouldn't with children............
10-13-2009, 09:06 PM
#20
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Maryland
Posts: 1,380
Lowering your car is something that you really have to put some thought into. If you don't know what you're doing, you're going to waste money and have an awful ride in the end. There are reasons why cars are designed by professional engineers and not Cracker Jack box home mechanics.
10-13-2009, 09:45 PM
#22
Liable for suspension problems? I would tend to agree with more aggressive drops. But a mild drop with performance struts will make the car more stable, aggressive, safe, and more enjoyable to drive without increasing the stress on other components by a significant amount. Keep in mind, these cars are at least 10 years old so they are going to have suspension problems regardless.
Personally, suspension was my first modification (struts and springs) because I felt that the car was much too floaty in stock form. I wanted my car to stick to the pavement. My first setup (illumina suspension kit) was incredible smooth, only lowered the car 1.25-1.5 inches and was relatively inexpensive. It was the best investment that I ever made (until I got coilovers).
To me it really does seem like you are just looking for an argument. Judging by your other posts, it seems as if you are a more mature individual than the people in this thread. Stuck in old ways perhaps? Not to be condescending, but why do you participate in these forums?
10-13-2009, 09:51 PM
#23
Key word is YOUR opinion. Don't take things personal just because it's not your cup of tea.
Liable for suspension problems? I would tend to agree with more aggressive drops. But a mild drop with performance struts will make the car more stable, aggressive, safe, and more enjoyable to drive without increasing the stress on other components by a significant amount. Keep in mind, these cars are at least 10 years old so they are going to have suspension problems regardless.
Personally, suspension was my first modification (struts and springs) because I felt that the car was much too floaty in stock form. I wanted my car to stick to the pavement. My first setup (illumina suspension kit) was incredible smooth, only lowered the car 1.25-1.5 inches and was relatively inexpensive. It was the best investment that I ever made (until I got coilovers).
To me it really does seem like you are just looking for an argument. Judging by your other posts, it seems as if you are a more mature individual than the people in this thread. Stuck in old ways perhaps? Not to be condescending, but why do you participate in these forums?
Liable for suspension problems? I would tend to agree with more aggressive drops. But a mild drop with performance struts will make the car more stable, aggressive, safe, and more enjoyable to drive without increasing the stress on other components by a significant amount. Keep in mind, these cars are at least 10 years old so they are going to have suspension problems regardless.
Personally, suspension was my first modification (struts and springs) because I felt that the car was much too floaty in stock form. I wanted my car to stick to the pavement. My first setup (illumina suspension kit) was incredible smooth, only lowered the car 1.25-1.5 inches and was relatively inexpensive. It was the best investment that I ever made (until I got coilovers).
To me it really does seem like you are just looking for an argument. Judging by your other posts, it seems as if you are a more mature individual than the people in this thread. Stuck in old ways perhaps? Not to be condescending, but why do you participate in these forums?
+1...............
10-13-2009, 11:24 PM
#24
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 112
lol, this thread is pretty much a dead horse, but I have to throw in like, three cents...
1. "In my opinion" doesnt give you the right to pop into a thread and say something stupid while at the same time giving NO USEFUL INPUT TO.
2. Lowering a car reduces body roll and increases general stability in turns as well as at high speeds.
3. ITS PERSONAL F**KING PREFERENCE.
BACK TO THE TOPIC AT HAND...
I suggest you do some more research.
Things to consider:
What will I use it for?
A: Daily Driver
B: Racecar/Track car
C: Both
I have Eibach Pro Springs, Kyb AGX adjustables, alignment kit, replaced all my bushings, new lightweight rims. Said and done cost me $1600. I go fast and beat my car like a redheaded step child, and its built to handle it.(suspension wise lol)
If you want looks, ebay junk will do you fine...If you want performance and quality parts, your gonna pay for it.
My point being, learn more, find out what you NEED, and buy accordingly.
1. "In my opinion" doesnt give you the right to pop into a thread and say something stupid while at the same time giving NO USEFUL INPUT TO.
2. Lowering a car reduces body roll and increases general stability in turns as well as at high speeds.
3. ITS PERSONAL F**KING PREFERENCE.
BACK TO THE TOPIC AT HAND...
I suggest you do some more research.
Things to consider:
What will I use it for?
A: Daily Driver
B: Racecar/Track car
C: Both
I have Eibach Pro Springs, Kyb AGX adjustables, alignment kit, replaced all my bushings, new lightweight rims. Said and done cost me $1600. I go fast and beat my car like a redheaded step child, and its built to handle it.(suspension wise lol)
If you want looks, ebay junk will do you fine...If you want performance and quality parts, your gonna pay for it.
My point being, learn more, find out what you NEED, and buy accordingly.
Last edited by fastisnothing; 10-13-2009 at 11:29 PM.
10-14-2009, 02:07 AM
#25
I honestly, its personal choice. If you want to lower it and LIKE the look of lowered cars, do it. If you don't like it, then DON'T do it, let people do what they want to their cars, its not like everytime they run over that pot hole and damage their muffler, that damage is going to get transferred to your car.
But honestly, I would like to lower my car too, maybe an inch or two all around, I think the stock height is too high. But thats just me.
But I go to places with lots of speed bumps and those little concrete stopper things at parking spaces that are WAY too high and along with even roads and random hills and dips I think I'll grind away my bumpers haha
10-14-2009, 05:59 AM
#26
10-14-2009, 06:12 AM
#27
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Location: BOSTON
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10-14-2009, 07:52 AM
#28
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 53
I have to agree...Since lowering my maxima like 1.5 inches , all I've got is problems,one of my expensive volk rims was bent badly,exhaust was perforated before the cat in a freakin pothole,having problems carrying bulky people in my car(especially in the backseat),noises and rough ride quality...etc,much regret...
10-14-2009, 08:08 AM
#29
I have to agree...Since lowering my maxima like 1.5 inches , all I've got is problems,one of my expensive volk rims was bent badly,exhaust was perforated before the cat in a freakin pothole,having problems carrying bulky people in my car(especially in the backseat),noises and rough ride quality...etc,much regret...
I never, EVER had a problem carrying bulky people in the car nor did I have problems with noise with my spring and struts setup. What are you lowered on? Did you replace all the stock components?
And how big of a pot hole did you hit to perforate the exhaust? Jesus...
Drive smart people. Large imperfections in the road can cause havoc to ANY car, regardless of whether its lowered or not.
10-14-2009, 08:12 AM
#30
I have to agree...Since lowering my maxima like 1.5 inches , all I've got is problems,one of my expensive volk rims was bent badly,exhaust was perforated before the cat in a freakin pothole,having problems carrying bulky people in my car(especially in the backseat),noises and rough ride quality...etc,much regret...
10-14-2009, 09:39 AM
#33
I have to agree...Since lowering my maxima like 1.5 inches , all I've got is problems,one of my expensive volk rims was bent badly,exhaust was perforated before the cat in a freakin pothole,having problems carrying bulky people in my car(especially in the backseat),noises and rough ride quality...etc,much regret...
Please tell us what was used to drop your car.
10-14-2009, 10:20 AM
#35
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Worcester, MA
Posts: 4,011
I love this debate....lol
I agree that the maxi sits a lil high. I also agree that there is much float on corners. Everyday as i drive to work, there is this long downhill curve that i have to take and it FEELS like the car wants to swerve. Also, anytime i take a high speed turn my tires squeal. Dropping my car would help to mitigate some of this and also make the car look a little better ( a nicely dropped car always looks good).
That being sd...what has ppl bought that ppl KNOW works? If ima buy a setup, i wanna buy it once and have somethin that is gonna last. o and how much...1600 is alotta cash but gotta respect the dedication lol
Another question...wouldnt getting bigger rims and tires effectively do the same thing as lowering the car anyways???
I agree that the maxi sits a lil high. I also agree that there is much float on corners. Everyday as i drive to work, there is this long downhill curve that i have to take and it FEELS like the car wants to swerve. Also, anytime i take a high speed turn my tires squeal. Dropping my car would help to mitigate some of this and also make the car look a little better ( a nicely dropped car always looks good).
That being sd...what has ppl bought that ppl KNOW works? If ima buy a setup, i wanna buy it once and have somethin that is gonna last. o and how much...1600 is alotta cash but gotta respect the dedication lol
Another question...wouldnt getting bigger rims and tires effectively do the same thing as lowering the car anyways???
10-14-2009, 10:36 AM
#36
Lowering your car is something that you really have to put some thought into. If you don't know what you're doing, you're going to waste money and have an awful ride in the end. There are reasons why cars are designed by professional engineers and not Cracker Jack box home mechanics.
And you don't think these "professional engineers" arent handcuffed at times by some jackazz MBA's who force them to use cheaper stuff, or make beefier designs less robust because it will save $XX? OR worry about if they can sell that Avalon to grandma and grandpa instead of a 20-40yo?
Hell, e36 BMW's have a historic problem of the rear suspension coming up through the trunk.....sound dangerous? So you want to blame the engineer or the MBA manager for that one?
Anyway, you don't have to put any thought into it, almost every combination has been done, and a lot of aftermarket companies give you a lifetime guarantee, unlike the stuff the "professional engineers" designed to be stock.
Look in the FAQ's,
I will quickly say this, no coil-over system I've ever heard about is more reliable than just a spring and strut combo, aside from that it's personal preference.
10-14-2009, 10:52 AM
#37
Member
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 69
The Maxima definitely sits way too high, and looks much better dropped at least a bit.
I can live with the ride quality of a 1" drop (I'm on Vogtland springs), but I've had nothing but trouble with tire wear. I've got camber bolts maxed out and still can't avoid inside tire wear. I'm not sure if others are living with short tire life, or if there is a real "solution" to the problem.
I can live with the ride quality of a 1" drop (I'm on Vogtland springs), but I've had nothing but trouble with tire wear. I've got camber bolts maxed out and still can't avoid inside tire wear. I'm not sure if others are living with short tire life, or if there is a real "solution" to the problem.
10-14-2009, 09:01 PM
#38
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 13
a lowered car looks really silly,just useless .........
Since this is my first post, I'll ask a question in typical noob fashion.
Can you guys vote people off(mahanddeem) that are posting on a site dedicated to people sharing info on how to "maximize" their maximas that act like they're 80 years old and think lowering a car is stupid ("a lowered car looks really silly,just useless .........")????
Yeah, his opinion. But it doesn't belong here. And I stand to be corrected...
He probably drives around a bone stock max and has a license plate frame that says "my other car is a chrysler labarron or insert lame and slow tiny white wall tired old man car here".
You all know what i'm talking about. Those guys who drive like 10 under the speed limit everywhere and use both feet for the gas and brake and go 0-60 only when they get the brake and gas peddle mixed up.
Buick, Chrysler, olds, Lincoln,...you get the point.
There's my rant for the day.
And to give another opinion(not fact) to go along with what's been said...
I had a 94 Accord with H&R springs. Lowered about 4 inches. almost slammed. Cornered excellent. STOCK struts. 103,000 miles. It rode decent. Not stock, but acceptable. Not bouncy like you see alot from people who by the wrong springs for stock struts. I take people out in my car wearing suits and the like and it was borderline too stiff. And it would bottom on business entryways if going more than a few mph. I could have raised it up about 2 inches and it would have looked decent and not bottomed(very often).
So that's my experience with a good name brand spring and stock struts.
It all depends on how much money you want to spend.
But I'd say you'd be into it at least $100-150 to lower by just buying springs and putting them on yourself. Springs+spring compressors+about 4 hours= upgraded suspension
Can you guys vote people off(mahanddeem) that are posting on a site dedicated to people sharing info on how to "maximize"
their maximas that act like they're 80 years old and think lowering a car is stupid ("a lowered car looks really silly,just useless .........")???? Yeah, his opinion. But it doesn't belong here. And I stand to be corrected...
He probably drives around a bone stock max and has a license plate frame that says "my other car is a chrysler labarron or insert lame and slow tiny white wall tired old man car here".
You all know what i'm talking about. Those guys who drive like 10 under the speed limit everywhere and use both feet for the gas and brake and go 0-60 only when they get the brake and gas peddle mixed up.
Buick, Chrysler, olds, Lincoln,...you get the point.
There's my rant for the day.
And to give another opinion(not fact) to go along with what's been said...
I had a 94 Accord with H&R springs. Lowered about 4 inches. almost slammed. Cornered excellent. STOCK struts. 103,000 miles. It rode decent. Not stock, but acceptable. Not bouncy like you see alot from people who by the wrong springs for stock struts. I take people out in my car wearing suits and the like and it was borderline too stiff. And it would bottom on business entryways if going more than a few mph. I could have raised it up about 2 inches and it would have looked decent and not bottomed(very often).
So that's my experience with a good name brand spring and stock struts.
It all depends on how much money you want to spend.
But I'd say you'd be into it at least $100-150 to lower by just buying springs and putting them on yourself. Springs+spring compressors+about 4 hours= upgraded suspension
10-14-2009, 09:23 PM
#39
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 13
Another question...wouldnt getting bigger rims and tires effectively do the same thin
That depends on how you look at it. if you keep the same overall diameter of the wheel tire combo, bigger rims will not make it look lowered. you have to fill up the wheel well by adding overall diameter to the combo to do that. And doing that will change some things.
It makes cornering worse(in a way). Looks better though if you like the lowered look.
It puts the center of gravity higher and adds more unsprung weight to the vehicle. That in turn makes you body roll worse and your suspension slower reacting and wears it out faster because "usually" bigger rims=bigger tires= more weight= more work for the entire suspension system.
But that's exactly what I did to my I30. put 18's on it and sticky tires and it will go faster around a corner than stock but leans more. And my car is slower because of the extra rotational weight the motor has to overcome. But I love it anyway.
So stock height will allow you less body roll and you don't have to be as careful with throwing the car around a corner because less chance of flipping and your stock tires will skid if pushed too far, whereas taller rims/tires will make it more likely to flip because the roll center is higher and more than likely you have more traction therefore less likely to skid, flipping instead.
I may have missed something or mis spoke. Let me know...
Hey, anyone got an opinion that they care to share on my muffler swap...?
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/3381632/2
It makes cornering worse(in a way). Looks better though if you like the lowered look.
It puts the center of gravity higher and adds more unsprung weight to the vehicle. That in turn makes you body roll worse and your suspension slower reacting and wears it out faster because "usually" bigger rims=bigger tires= more weight= more work for the entire suspension system.
But that's exactly what I did to my I30. put 18's on it and sticky tires and it will go faster around a corner than stock but leans more. And my car is slower because of the extra rotational weight the motor has to overcome. But I love it anyway.
So stock height will allow you less body roll and you don't have to be as careful with throwing the car around a corner because less chance of flipping and your stock tires will skid if pushed too far, whereas taller rims/tires will make it more likely to flip because the roll center is higher and more than likely you have more traction therefore less likely to skid, flipping instead.
I may have missed something or mis spoke. Let me know...
Hey, anyone got an opinion that they care to share on my muffler swap...?
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/3381632/2
10-14-2009, 11:48 PM
#40
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Maryland
Posts: 1,380
Since this is my first post, I'll ask a question in typical noob fashion.
Can you guys vote people off(mahanddeem) that are posting on a site dedicated to people sharing info on how to "maximize" their maximas that act like they're 80 years old and think lowering a car is stupid ("a lowered car looks really silly,just useless .........")????
Yeah, his opinion. But it doesn't belong here. And I stand to be corrected...
He probably drives around a bone stock max and has a license plate frame that says "my other car is a chrysler labarron or insert lame and slow tiny white wall tired old man car here".
You all know what i'm talking about. Those guys who drive like 10 under the speed limit everywhere and use both feet for the gas and brake and go 0-60 only when they get the brake and gas peddle mixed up.
Buick, Chrysler, olds, Lincoln,...you get the point.
There's my rant for the day.
Can you guys vote people off(mahanddeem) that are posting on a site dedicated to people sharing info on how to "maximize"
their maximas that act like they're 80 years old and think lowering a car is stupid ("a lowered car looks really silly,just useless .........")???? Yeah, his opinion. But it doesn't belong here. And I stand to be corrected...
He probably drives around a bone stock max and has a license plate frame that says "my other car is a chrysler labarron or insert lame and slow tiny white wall tired old man car here".
You all know what i'm talking about. Those guys who drive like 10 under the speed limit everywhere and use both feet for the gas and brake and go 0-60 only when they get the brake and gas peddle mixed up.
Buick, Chrysler, olds, Lincoln,...you get the point.
There's my rant for the day.
.....wish you better luck next election homie..I don't want to be accused of opening arguments , but when encountering idiot comments , I have to react......
I was never ever against good mods done to our cars , not those ricey and silly ones people see on their video games and rush to throw money and apply them to their cars,10+ years old FAMILY sedan cars......think of someone has a rusted to hell radiator support , or thinking 2 months whether to buy or not a 35$ KS ..or having a bright orange CEL in dash....... and LOVES to lower
....too silly..lol......again that's my opinion...And for the above noobie , who joined Sep 2009 (he seems to remind me of another memebr . concidence
? or dual memerbship..maybe) , I'm not 80,you can say I'm in the age of your father (if he's in his 30s) and I guess he is..another point , to drive 55 in 35 area and put other people lives in danger , you don't have to be young , all you have to have is being an irresponsible idiotso go hijack other people threads , ask about changing spak plugs or bump 6 years old threads , better for you than requesting VOTES
..hahaha..