madd_maxx

iTrader: (1)

I have a 97 SE Auto with 186K. I had random stalling a month ago and have pretty much been living on the forum trying to fix my random stalling when cold, studdering when driving at slow constant speeds. Here is a detailed list of problems I've run into and the things I've done so far to trouble shoot.

Problems:

Car randomly stalls (almost exclusively when cold when put into drive but not neutral)

Studdering (When driving a constant speed on a straight and smooth road) about 35MPH at 1500-2000 RPM's) it's almost like the car doesn't like the overdrive and doesn't know if it wants to stay there like it doesn't quite have enough power to keep it at the OD gear.

Rough Idle at stop in drive

Sometimes the car would take two cranks to start but always starts

Sluggish and non-linear acceleration, felt like I had to push gas more than necessary.

Remedies I tried:

Cleaned IACV including the sensor with 2 screws holding it into the IACV
Cleaned TB really well
Cleaned clogged EGR Tube (was throwing a code)
Cleaned MAF and even tried second one
Replaced ECTS (Engine coolant temperature sensor)
Used new OEM gaskets for all above
Replaced spark plugs with platinum OEM NGK's they were over 100K old.
Checked all coil packs (passed)
Replaced TPS
Air Filter is clean
Checked for any loose, cracked or detached hoses.
Starter is only a few months old, replaced by Nissan with a Nissan rebuilt one. The aftermarket was junk.
Oil only has 2K
Transmission fluid is about 30K and very clean and topped off, car is mainly driven hwy.
Knock sensor is about 5 months old OEM Nissan
After I did the above things some of my problems went away:

Starts great on a single crank
Acceleration is again very smooth and linear, doesn't feel sluggish, less gas is needed to get the car to cruising speed (35-45 MPH)
Transmission has never slipped and shifts very smoothly
There are no codes being thrown.

I thought that all my problems were gone until I went out to lunch after the car sat for 3 hours, it felt like it was going to stall when I put it into drive but didn't hit many red lights until it warmed up. It was a different story when I left work for the day. It stalled in drive when leaving. I usually warm up the car a little before I leave from home. The wife usually drives the cars and she doesn't wait as long. As-soon-as I put it into drive after about 2 minutes of idle the car started shaking, at times bucking, one member described it as keeping a manual in gear and coming to a stop without pushing in the clutch.

It freaked me out when I left the parking lot, the RPM's would jump up then come down erratically! When I was in the middle of rush hour traffic, it completely died, thankfully only once, thanks to power braking and putting it into neutral at times. I'm so glad I told my wife to drive the other car since I wasn't sure about the max being completely fixed. She would have panicked and maybe got into an accident.

The second and third times it tried to stall I did a power brake, both gas and brake to keep it going. I noticed that when I put it in neutral at the stops it idles perfectly and the problem goes a way, but as-soon-as I put it into drive it starts again. I noticed that when the car warms up that it completely goes away and doesn't stall. Only the studdering is apparent and slow and constant speeds. I tried to stall it on the way home when it was warmed up by coming to stop and smashing the brake and putting the heater fan on high and lights on but it wouldn't stall.

This is really starting to stress me out. I don't mind fixing a few things here and there but now I don't know what to do. The 97 SE drives like a champ and has new tires and would probably easily go another 100K. But, I can't live with a randomly stalling car. I'm almost scared to drive the thing. I could buy a replacement but do not want to give up that easily nor do I want another car payment. The max has been very reliable thus far and couldn't complain.

Would you guys says it's my torque converter? I've done about two more hours of reading it appears it's pointing in that direction. If it is how much will the stealership want to fix it and is it work putting the money into it?

Thanks for your all your help everyone!

Quickywd01

iTrader: (16)

I feel your pain as my automatic is acting up also. It started a few months ago when it got cold out and I put it in reverse it died. Nowadays it doesn't stall but sometimes when moving from a stop it will rev up and bang into gear but I've gotten good at that so I just baby the throttle like I'm driving a manual. If I try to get on it when it's cold it will start acting up. Also the OD thing. When I have it in OD it feels sluggish like it's slipping. I did the 60k mile maintenance and almost everything on your list as well. What I did with the transmission was: I drained the fluid from the pan, removed the pan, cleaned the magnets and screen, reinstalled the pan using the same bolts just a new rubber gasket because the original cork one was shot, I then filled the trans with amsoil synthetic atf and installed a b&m cooler bypassing the stock one. What I would suggest for you is buy about 7qts. of atf fluid, put a trans funnel into the auto dipstick, unhook the feed line to the stock cooler, point the feed line into a container to collect fluid and start the car. The transmission will slowly pump fluid and while it's doing that you can add fluid through the dipstick. This might help your transmission. After reading around I don't know if it's the torque converter, solenoids, clutch packs, etc. If you choose to have the tq converter replaced I would suggest having someone local from the forum do it for you if you can't do it yourself. The dealer is more of a last resort since they I've seen used automatics sell for $150. Personally since I'm trying to supercharge the max I'm thinking about finding an automatic from an infiniti I30t either from a local junkyard or carparts.com because it has a lsd in it and since the car is already automatic it would require a removal and replacement costing only my time. There's nothing wrong with taking it to the shop if you have the money and you feel comfortable with them doing the job. You can try this route but I doubt you need a lsd so you can use any regular automatic from a 4th gen maxima or same year(s) infiniti I30 (the I30t will work just has the lsd for better traction) and then have it put in. Hopefully someone else will chime in to better help you.

madd_maxx

iTrader: (1)

Quickywd01,

I bought the car @ 19K and did a full transmission flush, it was about 12-15 qts that came out. I changed the stock ATF fluid with Redline full synthetic and have been changing the AFT religiously at around 30K intervals.

At this point I don't know what to do. I'm fairly certain it related to my transmission now and not the other things like MAF, IACV and such. I wondering if it's at least worth while to have it diagnosed at the dealership. I know what a torque converter is but didn't know about the solenoids and clutch packs.

Hopefully some other members can chime in. I had dealing with my car everyday. It's become a big part of my everyday activity now. I even had a nightmare about it last night. It's really stressing me out.

Thanks for your input man!

DBear

Madd--

I've had problems for about 4 years with OD, where the tranny seems to be going in and out of OD, and the engine will drop to idle if I'm off the pedal at freeway speeds. If I turn off OD it's fine. I've long suspected the TC, but it's never gotten bad enough to replace.

But I've just developed the "bucking" problem, like coasting to a stop with the clutch still out, and it will stall at idle. I haven't had any CELs, but I read the codes anyway and came up with P0100, which is MAF. That also fits the kind of symptoms a bad MAF will throw. I cleaned the MAF really well and it was fine for a couple of days, then came back with a vengeance. I'll probably replace the MAF next.

The point here is, you should see if you have any ghost codes. I thought the KS was the only ghost code, but apparently there's a least one more. That might be your problem too.

madd_maxx

iTrader: (1)

DBear and Quickywd01,

I just came back from a 20 mile round trip to the store and ran a few errands and the car ran perfectly. It did not stall because I warmed it up for 15 minutes before I got in the car to drive away. The stalling only happens when it's cold. I've just reiterated it. I even tried to stall it by putting on the radio, fog lights and fan on high. It's snowing here in Madison, WI so I took it on a side street and slammed on the brakes to kick in the ABS to try to invoke a stall, but the car idled perfectly. When I parked the car I put it in drive then park and back and forth many times, all the while mashing the brake hard to get the car to work hard and it still did not stall.

DBear, I only have the "hunting"- like shuddering feeling when cruising at constant slower speeds about 35 - 40 MPH and everything is fine at HWY speeds. One thing I noticed just starting yesterday was that when it shifts from 1st to 2nd from a stop it sometime feels abrupt even when accelerating very slowly. It's the kind of shift you feel when you floor it off the line on an automatic.

The one question I have is why does it only stall when the car is cold and it doesn't when it's warmed up? I don't know enough about transmissions to figure this out. It just pains me to think that I might have to sink a boat load of money into my car since it has 186K on it but at the same time everything is in great shape except the stalling. Living to deal with the stalling by warming it up fully before driving it would really stink...

JtzMax

iTrader: (5)

Madd ....

Do you get any symptoms in P or N? Sounds like it might be a fuel pressure problem. Have you replaced the fuel filter at all? Also, I know this will sound strange, but bear with me .... the OD is controled via the engine temp, so if the engine is cold, it will not allow OD to stay engaged. Oddly enough, replacing the thermastat could remedy the problem.

Doesn't sound like a TC to me. In my past experiences with bad TCs, the car jerks, REALLY jerks - lurches at a stop / cold or hot.

edit: Also, a bad TC will likely have the feeling of slipping, and it would not slef correct (work sometimes but not others).

madd_maxx

iTrader: (1)

JtzMax,

The problem never ever has happened in P or N. It runs perfectly in Park and Neutral. I have not done a fuel filter change. I'm not doubting you but I wonder why the fuel filter would affected by the car warming up.

When you're referring to the thermostat you're talking about the engine thermostat that's connect to one of the radiator hoses correct?

JtzMax

iTrader: (5)

Madd -

Yes, the engine thermostat (sorry, just looked at my typo above )

Only reason I ask about the fuel filter is that under load, the car draws more pressure to the fuel system. If the filter is gunked up or not allowing all the fuel needed, it could have a sluggish effect on driving, even to the point of stalling out. I'm not so convinced it is the fuel filter ... but I don't think it's a bad TC. You are correct in asking ... why only when it is cold - which leads me to think of the thermostat.

madd_maxx

iTrader: (1)

JtzMax,

What does TC mean? I agree that it's probably a good idea to change out the fuel filter since my car is on 186K now. I don't think it's ever been done.

I wonder if a transmission solenoid would cause it. I didn't know of such a think until someone mentioned it.

DBear

Madd--

I'm not clear on what you mean by shuddering, we may have completely different problems. I don't know much about trannies, but it doesn't sound to me like you have a bad one. I would have said TPS or ECTS, but you've replaced them both. Have you tried using contact cleaner on the connectors?

Don't discount the nefariousness of intermittent problems, either. I had a similar type problem on my Durango a year ago, with the bucking and horrible performance. It went away after a couple of days, and I thought it was just a tank of bad gas. But it came back a couple of months ago, and this time I figured out it was the TPS. (At least, I hope that's right. It hasn't come back, but it's only been two months...) That's about 10 months of intermittency. So it's possible you don't only have the problem when it's cold, unless you have a lot of consistent data points. But if you're right, maybe it's a connection problem too, where something expands enough to make a better connection. IDK, I'm just thinking out loud here.

It's conceivable it's also the dreaded harness bend problem. Have you tried fiddling with the harness at the bend point while it's idling, to see if you can reproduce it? (For the sake of your wallet, I hope that's not it.)

And again, don't assume you have no codes until you've read them.

DBear

Jtzmax--

Going off-thread a bit here. That's very interesting that OD is temp controlled. Do you know what is uses to sense temperature? Just the normal coolant temp sensor running through the ECU, or does it have its own?

madd_maxx

iTrader: (1)

DBear,

I just checked the two grounding bolts on the front of the intake manifold and they were tight. I also took them off and gave them a thorough cleaning and also filed off the dark areas down to the copper on the washers connected to wires. There was no corrosion but I figured at this point it can't hurt. I took it for drive right afterward and it drove fine. The car wasn't warmed up but it had only been sitting in a insulted garage for about 4 hours.

I'll wait until morning until the block and everything is cold before I drive it again. I'm thinking of calling the dealership to just run a diagnostics on it before I decide to spend some real money.

I'll keep you guys posted.

JtzMax

iTrader: (5)

DBear -
I'm not sure but I think it does use the ECTS to get the readings. I don't know of any other way the ECU would be able to pick it up. Makes me wonder now though ... Something about the computer knowing if the thermostat is open or not (triggering a voltage change at the ECTS) is really how I understand it.

Madd-

TC = Torque Converter
In my experience, anything wrong with the TC or solinoides usually adds up to a slipping trans or eratic shif problems. Not saying it can't be the solinoide, but typically it will throw a code if it's acting up. There is a TCM (transmission controll module) as well and again, if it's not working correctly, you'll get a code. Not a bad idea to just run over to Autozone and they can hook up the OBD II reader for you for free to see if you have any ghost codes. If you take the car to the stealership, be ready to empty your wallet for them to tell you anything from - it's not doing anything odd for us - to - you need a new trans / car! lol Sorry, trying to make some humor.

A cheap and easy 'try' for the fix might be the thermostat, doesn't take any time to change and it's cheap. BTW - how's the heat and the temp gauge? Normall ???

madd_maxx

iTrader: (1)

JtzMax,

I don't think it's my thermostat, I've dealt with thermostats many times before. Usually when they act up they seize and don't open up fast enough, too much or not at all.

My car warms up quickly like a new car. My normal operating temperature are is a hair below dead center on the temperature gauge.

I tested my cold stalling only hypothesis again this morning. I didn't warm up the car and I started driving it 1 minute after I started it. It immediately wanted to stall at the first stop. I saved the stall once again by putting it into neutral. Then again at the next stop. I drove for about 2 minutes and the temperature started to rise. It was pretty cold this morning in WI, we just had some snow fall. After the two minutes the car was already throwing good heat. I could see the temperature gauge slowing starting to rise and after to miles of driving @ 25-30 MPH the car was warm and by the third light it did stall.

It ran perfectly all the way to work. I didn't know autozone will do a diagnostics for free. I'll have to take it to Autozone over lunch to have it check out.

I'm thinking it's definitely transmission related now.

DBear

JtzMax--

I checked the manual last night, and it looks there is an ATF temp sensor as part of the solenoid set inside the tranny. It did say the TC won't lock up if the ATF isn't warm, so that's probably it. I've long suspected the solenoids, but the only test I could find checked out OK, and they're a little too expensive (and PITA) to just swap out and see what happens.

madd_maxx

iTrader: (1)

DBear,

So the ATF temp sensor, which is part of the solenoid is inside the tranny? If that's true, this totally sucks! The tranny is going to have to be taken out to fix anything... I've got an appointment with the stealership to just have them take a look. I know autozone would do a generic diagnostics for free but at this point I just want to know what is wrong and how much...

JtzMax

iTrader: (5)

ATF temp sensor .... cool! Now I know how / why it keeps out of OD till it's warm. Thanks! Learn something new ever day.

That truely would suck if the sensor is packed with the solenoid inside the trans, but your probably right, it likely is. Why they (Nissan) didn't do an inline sensor is anybodys guess. The ATF runs out of the trans to the radiator and back so it would be easy enough to monitor temps there I would think.

Best of luck with the stealership, I'm very curious what they say, please keep us posted.

madd_maxx

iTrader: (1)

Just got back from the stealership, I'm mean dealership. They did a full engine scan and their conclusion is the stalling when the car is cold is due to my fuel injectors running very lean. Here is what the sheet says from the local Nissan dealership:

Perform scan test engine is running very lean from alpha readings that are above 110%. Bank 1 and bank 2 are more than 10% difference, cause ecm control lag, the injectors from age are not flowing or controlling very well. Replacement of injectors 5.0 labor. May get worse over time can try some cleaner additives but electronically they're slow ( I don't know what he meant by that?) Also replacement will increase horse power but fuel economy may with full flow potential. IVE increase base idle set to help compensate lean idling condition"

Here is the scan output that they showed me, they let me keep it when I asked.


My question is, is it possible for my clogged and leaned running injectors cause my stalling problems when the engine is cold or is this BS? The mechanic I spoke with seemed to be very knowledgeable. He was an older guy and I've worked with him before. He said it's definitely not anything to do with my transmission. The diagnostics cost me $94.00 I think it was worth it. They said new injectors would be about $600 and about $500 more to install them.

I took his advice to just throw injector cleaner in it. I went to Costco and picked up a 6 pack of Chevron injector cleaner for $15.99 and put a couple in also topped off my gas. I also asked about the fuel filter and he said it wouldn't make a difference. Maybe that shuddering I was feeling at time was do the the engine starving for fuel.

Don't know what to do or think now very confused and discouraged...

DBear

madd--

OK, admittedly I'm not a mechanic, but sometimes I think they deliberately make that stuff incomprehensible just so you'll let them fix it. Boil it all down and it sounds like they're just saying a couple of injectors aren't working properly. I don't have a lot of experience with bad injectors <knock on wood>, but my first guess would always be that they're clogged, and you should add some injector cleaners. Which you've done. It makes sense to me that they could cause stalling when it's cold, since a cold engine doesn't run as well as a warm one, and cold can magnify minor issues. Maybe you need to get away from places with snow on the ground...

The injector cleaner may work. Let us know.

JtzMax

iTrader: (5)

Wow ... ok then. Great you finally got some answers, now to fix it!

To answer the ? of injectors / cold / stalling issue, yes. As the engine warms up, the seals on the injectors expand, and that likely builds the fuel rail pressure a bit. As I stated above, I didn't think it was trans related, and now you know it is a fuel problem.

Easiest / cheapest fix would be do get a set of 're-manned' injectors from Autozone or where ever. To properly CLEAN injectors is a process, much more involved than just a couple of 'in the tank' tricks. The fact that he said they are resonding slowly electricly means that they are gummed up internal, not just the spray head. The in the tank stuff can clean the fuel rail and spray heads, but not the internals of the injector it's self. I don't think he's putting you on at all ... sounds and from the looks, that they nailed it. Good call for the dealer ... you'll not hear me say that very often! LOL

You can do the inector replacement yourself, it's not hard. There are steps, like everything else, so just follow those and you'll be golden.

Gotta go ta werk! Blaahh blaahhh blaaa

madd_maxx

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for the input man. I saw that ebay has new OEM for $80 a piece. What are your thoughts on the remanufactured ones?

Thanks again for your input man! You've been a great help!

Quickywd01

iTrader: (16)

Ebay is great but try the classifieds forum. PS 300zx fuel filter FTW.

FallenOne

iTrader: (17)

i replied in your other thread, pmohr has a set iirc, also download the fsm form my sig and your golden buddy.

BronxSleeperMax187

seafoam that biach

JtzMax

iTrader: (5)

Yea yea!!!!!

Just curious, what do you think seafoam is gonna do to help him?

Madd -

78.99 new (ea) Autozone for Maxima
128.59 new (ea) for Z32 (300 ZX N/A)

cashoit

+1

NO nO nO...dont get injectors from ebay! Jus hit autozone they are much cheaper and more reliable.

The Chevron may jus cure yur problems if the injectors are only clogged. Go thru the entire batch and wait to afterwards to buy the injectors.

Never buy injectors from EBAy especially when the local parts store has them cheaper AND a return policy

O and he sd seafoam to help clean injectors. I dont beilieve in seafoam or Lucas. Chevron is the best for our cars.

madd_maxx

iTrader: (1)

Cash,

The brand of injectors that Autozone sells are Gp-Sorensen / Fuel Injector Part Number:
800-1149N







Price:
$78.99

The woman I spoke with last night said they're "new" are the AZ ones reliable or do you get what you pay for? I was also thinking the remanufactured route. Rockauto.com has them for about $34 + $15 core charge. They're GB Manufucturing. I would pony up and buy new Nissan but they're like $120 a piece! Ouch!

I drove the car cold again and it tried to stall, but only once I didn't put it in neutral and it caught itself. Now I know more about the issue it almost feels like a misfire or engine shake when drive even on the hwy now. I'm not a mechanic but part of me is torn that it's not the injectors. I agree that the injectors were proven to be running lean, but is that absolutely the cause of my cold stalls when in drive??

I hope and pray it's only the injectors and not the tranny

JtzMax

iTrader: (5)

I'm telling you, it's not a trans issue. A misfire at speed will cause the symptoms you describe. Here's a little test you can do ... takes 2 minutes and can answer some ?s. Pop the hood, start on any of the 6, doesn't matter, but hit em all. Start unplugging the injectors one at a time - engine running. This will not hurt anything at all ... but if you unplug one and there's no change in idle / engine noise - you know it is a bad injector. You may only need 1, 2, who knows. You can do the same thing with the coil packs too. However, Nissan didn't say anything about them, so little chance they are bad (too). You will not hurt yourself or the car by doing this, it's what I have done as a mechanic to find the bad injectors. Give it a shot - remember that cyl 1 is the rear passenger side, then 2 is front pass side and so on .... 6 is front drivers side.

madd_maxx

iTrader: (1)

JtzMax,

I already did the coil test last week and they were all good. I'll try injectors but you can't remove the plugs on the injectors on the firewall side because of the upper intake manifold?

The tech didn't say the injectors are not working, just running very lean. I called the local dealership for new Nissan injectors and they said $167.00!! Talk about a rip-off!

Thanks for being patient man. I can be stubborn

cashoit

NIssan didnt't tell u which injector is bad?? A simple compression test would indicated which cylinder is bad.

ANy codes? that also helps to say where the misfire is coming from.

Yes a bad injector will cause the stalling and misfire issues. The chevron shd help to clean some of that out.

If u cant do yourself take it to a good mech. The AZ parts are good. If they dont work jus bring it back for another. I wdnt get those from EBay no matter how much u can save. Simple sensors like the CPS or KS i get from EBay, not complicated crucial parts like injectors or coils. Thats jus me tho...

If u can get new, get new.

madd_maxx

iTrader: (1)

JtzMax,

The tech simple said that both front and rear banks were running lean. Bank1 7% and bank1 15% lean. He said the ECM's back then were not smart enough to balance each cylinder based I what he said potentially there is a bad injector(s) on each bank causing the whole bank to run lean.

At this point if it comes down to replacing any of the injectors I'm going to do them all since the they have 185K on them. An org member Jriv815 who is a Nissan tech has been kind enough research more for me.

I've also decided to change the fuel filter this weekend when I get a chance. I keep updating regularly. Did a lot of research on the org and was thinking about the 300z fuel filter but it seems it just larger and holds more crap between changes. No fuel flow advantages.

Keep the posts coming!

madd_maxx

iTrader: (1)

FallenOne,

Thanks for the FSM man. That definitely helps!

cashoit

fallen has the 1998 manual. I downloaded it cuz i got tired of waiting for links to download. Shout out to Fallen!!

. here is the link i use to access the 95-99 manuals:

http://www.nicoclub.com/FSM/maxima/

madd_maxx

iTrader: (1)

Cash, I was searching some more and do you think it could be fuel pressure regulator? I'm going to ohm out my injectors tonight when I get home.

JtzMax

iTrader: (5)

To test the FPR (fuel pressure regulator) - at closed throtle (again, engine running) / idle, you should have full vaccumm at the FRP, at WOT, you should have little if any vaccumm. You'll need to hook a vaccumm line (w/ guage) on it inline and then play with the trottle from under the hood. The FPR has a diaphram in it and it could be week or you could have a slight vaccumm issue - anything is possible.

Cash -

A compression check will not determine a fuel issue, it will show only 2 things. 1 - failing rings (which the VQ is NOT known for at all! - Damn bulletproof for the most part! WooT), or 2 - a warped or loose head (or head bolt) that allows a loss of compression.

maxfever1987

iTrader: (93)

this is an old thread not that old but still madd max did you ever resolve the issue? i read this throught out and im curious as to what happen and are you still experiencing the issue?

Umair

cashoit

You shd prolly PM Madd Maxx. I havent seen him online in awhile

4G-riken

i had exacly the same after 2 weeks of searching, guesing and changing parts mine was a mix of a misfire in cyl#4, and i had a melting spot on my #2 coil where it was probly arking to the block, wrapt the wire going down 2 the plug in electrical tape and slipt in a shrink tube over it all just to make it look clean and so the tape wont come off, and a soon to be solved oil pump problem...but just after the plug thing it runs grate again that jumping when moving at 2000rpm gone !instant aceleration!
soon going to do that tape and tube job on all the coilpacks looks good and they end up very protected

ampire

iTrader: (12)

My injectors failed. I have a 5 speed manual transmission and I had the car stalling, failing to hold idle, and other issues. Gas mileage was pretty decent but power wasn't great. The stalling and idle issues would only happen about 50% of the time but it was enough that it was undriveable.

Upon replacement of all the injectors my car drove much better and all of these problems went away. Of course my wallet was a lot lighter because I had to have a dealer do it (no tools at college and urgently needed a working car).

Daust50

I see you checked the ignition coils. For what it's worth, I had similar symptoms with my 99. Was almost certain it was trans. Found 2 ignition coils would misfire at low RPMs but 'ok' above 1100 rpm and no codes sent. Used a scope to see the dropouts.