well if that is true, correct me if i am wrong, why? Autos cruise the highway at around 1.5k rpm, whereas i do at around 3k. how is that work.

 

wtf?

 

In real life, there really doen't seem to be much of a difference.

 

you dont understand? wtf is very vague, please specify your wtf. ok let me rephrase the question. why dont sticks get far worse gas milage since they cruise hwy at around 3k rpm? when autos go at around 1.5k rpm... there sorry to have been so confusing.

 

I always had it in my head for some reason that any difference between the two would be a result of the fact that in a manual, you drop to and sit in neutral (stop lights, coasts, etc), whereas in an auto, you really don't. Even if I'm wrong, as long as my mind is at peace, then that's what counts <G>

Like Medic said, any difference is nominal anyways.

 

It's very nominal, but on paper the manual Max actually is stated to get worse mileage than the Auto, but it's only like 1mpg, so very nominal at best.....

 

You're not presenting a complete picture. 1.5k rpm at what speed? 3k rpm at what speed? I have a manual so I know that 3k rpm in 5th gear is just under 80 mph.

For the Max though, the autos get better highway mpg even though the manuals have an extra gear. That's somewhat due to the manual's 5th not being so much an overdrive like the auto's 4th.

DW

 

The five speeds have shorter gearing, for better performance, than the auto's, giving the difference in MPG ratings. If you took a 5 speed stick and a 5 speed auto with the same gear ratio's or even a 4 speed auto that ended up giving the same final drive ratio, the stick would get better mileage because it transfers power from the crank to the wheels more efficiently than an auto.

 

I will still take my 5 speed anyday.

SuDZ

 

From what I understand autos get worse mileage becuase of the nature of the tranny. At idle it, is slipping and it slips between shifts. I don't know if Maximas feature 3rd or OD locks or not. But in all, it's about the same. Mileage would not be the reason to get either one.

If one could drive a 5-6sp very gingerly, I think it would be better mileage than a typical auto.

 

actually....

for the 4th gen....

the different trannies are rated as following in MPG:

autos = 21 city / 28 highway
5 spd = 22 city / 27 highway



Sooo, i guess the short 5th gear or whatever people talk about can contribute to that?
I drive an auto and my gas milage is around 18 mpg city, 24 highway still better then my other car.

 

Depends how you drive too. On backroads where I am not gonna hit the gas for a while i may cruise at low RPM's for a bit like 1K or whatever. That will definantly make the gas go a bit further.

SuDZ

 

I have an auto, 27-28 hundred rpm is just under 80. I think the auto is listed as worse in the city and better on the highway.. There are a lot of hp losses in an auto. Mostly slip in the TC. the engine is spinning faster than the high speed pinion almost all the time. => auto requires greater fuel consumption and higher rpm to achieve same speed (assume equal gearing for that comparison). However, in the max the TC locks up while highway cruising and the OD is a bit higher of a gear than 5th =>a little better milage, in theory.

 

Those numbers are equal, so like I said before, the difference is negligable.

 

Agreed. Me 2. Anyone concerned about saving 1 mpg should be driving a Ford Asspire, not a Nissan Maxima. (That's not directed at anyone in particular, btw).

Cheers!

 

true, they pretty much are.
Although 27 and 28 does have a 1 MPG difference, which is 15-16 miles more per tank

Despite the ratings, everyone cannot expect the 21 / 28 milage. Some will get less, some more depending on your driving habits and the condition of your car. It may feel fine but get a god 4 mpg less then it should (kind of like mine) and you can't really tell anything is wrong, but there is a ton of things that can result in poor milage. If your car gets gas milage as rated, you should be very happy because it says your car is in great shape, or at least the fuel system is....

 

i have a stick and love it. not concerned about the 1mpg, however i just wanted to know why because i was sitting around and thought, hey that doesnt make sense. aiiight.

thanks
justin

 

Well the saying that a stick gets better gas mileage use to hold true, but with todays autos, the trannies along with all the electronics and programming have closed the gap.

 

Very true. The auto's loss in gears and torque slushinees is starting to dis-appear. We've got 5 speed autos now and BMW with their new 7 series, is gonna have a 6 speed auto. Then there's the Audi A4 with a CVT driving thier 3 liter V6. Amazing. Autos are catching up FAST to stick. Soon there won't be a difference, except for one thing;

Sticks will ALWAYS be much more fun

DW

 

What kind of "city" do they refer to in the EPA mileage ratings.

Well, in a "real city" like San Francisco that involves sitting at lights and stop and go traffic, an automatic will manage well below 20MPG -- just like most any car quote in the low 20's.


at 60MPH, a 5 speed pulls 2500 RPM vs an auto running 2000RPM --
Sure, that may seem to go against the favor of the auto, but then the stick requires less engine torque to overcome aerodynamic drag because of the gearing --

BMWs new "Valvetronic" might be of good mention here...
They have no throttle bodies at all -- its just straight pipe and they electronically vary the valve lift (not just a discreet step like a Honda VTEC -- but a large continuous range)
So that makes a lot less pumping loss through the closed throttle body at low engine demand or low speeds -- So perhaps a taller gear requires a little more torque from the engine to maintain speed which means the throttle is open a little more which then means less pumping losses through the throttle body --
BMW claims 10-20% improved city mileage with the valvetronic engine as compared to a throttle body setup --

Well anyway, back to Maximas -- A stick gets 4% less mileage on the EPA rating on the highway for having 25% higher RPMs at 60MPH -- that is a pretty good achievement -- Anyway, once torque is required from a maxima with an automatic to pass someone on the highway, that torque converter unlocks and suddenly at least 10% of the power is getting wasted just to get back to where you started on top of getting more power to the ground to pass --

Real world driving is not made up of continous speed driving -- it is made up of constant repetitive acceleration and deceleration --
So the 5 speed always wins in economy -- EVERY TIME -- all other things being equal --

The 5 speeds all came with some sort of half decent performance tire while the autos probably all came with all season comfort cruise tires with lower rolling resistance -- that could also account for the 1MPG difference in the EPA rating for highway --

and of course, a 5 speed is 69 times more fun to drive than an auto--







In the real world, a stick always beats an auto by large margins --

 

I just noticed something. Whenever we have these mileage threads, it seems that 5 speeds always get the best highway mileage, like 32 or 33. I haven't seen an auto do that yet. Could be wrong though

DW

 

I think you're right, it really doesn't matter how much autos advance, for some people sticks with a real clutch is more fun. I've never bought the "I live in a city" argument where sticks are awful in stop/go traffic, they aren't, they're 2nd nature.

Autos have locked-up I think as early as 1984, so that's nothing new. Even when locked I think less power is reaching the drive wheels, but I may be wrong.

Like those sweet Swedish girls I ran into who manually focused their camera as opposed to using auto--some people are enthusiasts and prefer to do things themselves. Those who prefer not to can argue all they want, it's a personal preference.

Long live the stick!

 

When the perfect the CVT, sticks will become useless in terms of value. CVT perform better than manuals and get much better gas mileage. But they are kinda boring

 

Not to mention they make your car sound like a vacuum cleaner

DW