After fixing ignition/steering wheel lock, turning key does not start car
09-27-2011, 06:55 PM
#1
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Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 104
After fixing ignition/steering wheel lock, turning key does not start car
1995 Maxima SE
So I pulled off to the side of the road to tuck back in the piece of plastic that protects the front wheel well area and engine bay from dirt and dust. It simply came undone and was dragging on the road. I tucked it back in, no problem.
I got back in the car, and the key would not turn at ALL. I jiggled it a lot, and finally got the key to turn after I turned the steering wheel. However, I could turn the key fully forward (the way I would start it) and it would not even attempt to turn over. I would get power to all accessories and everything.
There was no clicking sound. The only thing that would happen when I turn the key is the dash lights would turn on. Any ideas what might be the problem?
So I pulled off to the side of the road to tuck back in the piece of plastic that protects the front wheel well area and engine bay from dirt and dust. It simply came undone and was dragging on the road. I tucked it back in, no problem.
I got back in the car, and the key would not turn at ALL. I jiggled it a lot, and finally got the key to turn after I turned the steering wheel. However, I could turn the key fully forward (the way I would start it) and it would not even attempt to turn over. I would get power to all accessories and everything.
There was no clicking sound. The only thing that would happen when I turn the key is the dash lights would turn on. Any ideas what might be the problem?
09-27-2011, 07:21 PM
#3
09-27-2011, 10:14 PM
#5
If you want to do some testing, get a voltmeter or a test light and connect it to the thin wire that is on the starter. When you turn the key to the start position, the voltage should be 12 volts or the test light lights up. If it doesn't, then the ignition switch has a problem.
09-27-2011, 10:20 PM
#6
09-28-2011, 12:25 AM
#7
Constant 12V+-------- White/Red or White/Purple
Starter------------- Black/Yellow or Black/White
Starter 2 -------- Green
Ignition ---------- Black/White or Black/Red
Ignition 2 ---------- Red/Yellow
Accessory -------- Blue
Last edited by beegeezy; 09-28-2011 at 12:27 AM.
09-28-2011, 12:29 AM
#8
Constant/12V+ should show 12 volts all the time
Starter 1 and 2 should only show 12 volts during cranking
Ignition 1 and 2 should show ground when the key is off and 12 volts when on run (2nd click)
Accessory should show 12 volts on the the first click of the ignition switch and on run. (not during crank)
Starter 1 and 2 should only show 12 volts during cranking
Ignition 1 and 2 should show ground when the key is off and 12 volts when on run (2nd click)
Accessory should show 12 volts on the the first click of the ignition switch and on run. (not during crank)
09-28-2011, 06:55 AM
#9
The wheel was locked in such a position that it put a bind on the lock cylinder. How hard did you reef on the hey before you moved the steering wheel. I suspect you damaged the cylinder or switch and are not getting the full sweep necessary on the switch.
09-28-2011, 08:33 AM
#10
I didn't mean to be so abrupt. Yes you should test the wires coming off the ignition switch to pinpoint the problem. From your description of the key being stuck and then finally working I think you just have a bad switch. Like the others have said, 5 minutes with a multimeter and you'll know for sure. Here are the wires you need to test:
Constant 12V+-------- White/Red or White/Purple
Starter------------- Black/Yellow or Black/White
Starter 2 -------- Green
Ignition ---------- Black/White or Black/Red
Ignition 2 ---------- Red/Yellow
Accessory -------- Blue
Constant 12V+-------- White/Red or White/Purple
Starter------------- Black/Yellow or Black/White
Starter 2 -------- Green
Ignition ---------- Black/White or Black/Red
Ignition 2 ---------- Red/Yellow
Accessory -------- Blue
09-28-2011, 10:26 AM
#11
09-28-2011, 10:45 AM
#12
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Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 104
UPDATE
I had this taken to a mechanic (no time or tools to fix it myself in the middle of nowhere), and he said this:
-When he turns the key, it is energizing the fuses which go to the security system, which then *should* give power to the starter
-If he wires the starter directly, the starter turns and work properly
-The only thing between the ignition switch which seems to be working, and the starter, is the security system
Thus, he believes the security system is keeping it from starting and he can't troubleshoot it further; he suggested to take it to a dealer. I asked him to lock and unlock the driver's side door twice with the key, and to do the same on the passenger side, and then try. He said it did not work.
Do you guys have any further suggestions?
I had this taken to a mechanic (no time or tools to fix it myself in the middle of nowhere), and he said this:
-When he turns the key, it is energizing the fuses which go to the security system, which then *should* give power to the starter
-If he wires the starter directly, the starter turns and work properly
-The only thing between the ignition switch which seems to be working, and the starter, is the security system
Thus, he believes the security system is keeping it from starting and he can't troubleshoot it further; he suggested to take it to a dealer. I asked him to lock and unlock the driver's side door twice with the key, and to do the same on the passenger side, and then try. He said it did not work.
Do you guys have any further suggestions?
09-28-2011, 10:50 AM
#13
According to the FSM, all 5 years of the 4th gen use the same wire colors, so there is no maybe this, maybe that color on a connections. There are no solid green or blue wires on the 4th gen ignition switch. 5th gen yes, but I don't think the positions are correct.
Here is a quick little chart, listing connector pin number, the wire color, the FSM page number and the position of the key. Since you have a 98, I'll use the page numbers from the 98 FSM. The manuals for each year are different page numbers. To the gentleman that started this thread and has a 95, page EL- 9 has all this info.
pin 1 12 volts in - white/purple EL-10
pin 2 white/blue EL-10 ACC and ON
pin 3 black/red EL-11 ON and Start
pin 4 red/yellow EL-13 ON
pin 5 black/white EL-26 START
pin 6 red/blue EL-13 START
I would avoid that website for electrical wiring information.
09-28-2011, 10:55 AM
#14
The colors are probably correct depending on where you find the wire. Nissans typically switch colors before and after plugs. I would prefer to use directechs for wiring info but I don't have access anymore.
09-28-2011, 10:55 AM
#15
UPDATE
I had this taken to a mechanic (no time or tools to fix it myself in the middle of nowhere), and he said this:
-When he turns the key, it is energizing the fuses which go to the security system, which then *should* give power to the starter
-If he wires the starter directly, the starter turns and work properly
-The only thing between the ignition switch which seems to be working, and the starter, is the security system
Thus, he believes the security system is keeping it from starting and he can't troubleshoot it further; he suggested to take it to a dealer. I asked him to lock and unlock the driver's side door twice with the key, and to do the same on the passenger side, and then try. He said it did not work.
Do you guys have any further suggestions?
I had this taken to a mechanic (no time or tools to fix it myself in the middle of nowhere), and he said this:
-When he turns the key, it is energizing the fuses which go to the security system, which then *should* give power to the starter
-If he wires the starter directly, the starter turns and work properly
-The only thing between the ignition switch which seems to be working, and the starter, is the security system
Thus, he believes the security system is keeping it from starting and he can't troubleshoot it further; he suggested to take it to a dealer. I asked him to lock and unlock the driver's side door twice with the key, and to do the same on the passenger side, and then try. He said it did not work.
Do you guys have any further suggestions?
But if you are stranded, you can remove the Theft Warning relay and put a jumper in the socket connection pins 3 and 4.
Last edited by DennisMik; 09-28-2011 at 11:08 AM.
09-28-2011, 11:01 AM
#16
UPDATE
I had this taken to a mechanic (no time or tools to fix it myself in the middle of nowhere), and he said this:
-When he turns the key, it is energizing the fuses which go to the security system, which then *should* give power to the starter
-If he wires the starter directly, the starter turns and work properly
-The only thing between the ignition switch which seems to be working, and the starter, is the security system
Thus, he believes the security system is keeping it from starting and he can't troubleshoot it further; he suggested to take it to a dealer. I asked him to lock and unlock the driver's side door twice with the key, and to do the same on the passenger side, and then try. He said it did not work.
Do you guys have any further suggestions?
I had this taken to a mechanic (no time or tools to fix it myself in the middle of nowhere), and he said this:
-When he turns the key, it is energizing the fuses which go to the security system, which then *should* give power to the starter
-If he wires the starter directly, the starter turns and work properly
-The only thing between the ignition switch which seems to be working, and the starter, is the security system
Thus, he believes the security system is keeping it from starting and he can't troubleshoot it further; he suggested to take it to a dealer. I asked him to lock and unlock the driver's side door twice with the key, and to do the same on the passenger side, and then try. He said it did not work.
Do you guys have any further suggestions?
09-28-2011, 11:24 AM
#17
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Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 104
Its possible that the electrical switches on the lock locks could be messed up. These should be checked with an ohmeter. The driver's door that gets used a lot more than the passenger door is more like to have failed.
But if you are stranded, you can remove the Theft Warning relay and put a jumper in the socket connection pins 3 and 4.
But if you are stranded, you can remove the Theft Warning relay and put a jumper in the socket connection pins 3 and 4.
Last edited by 88FordFestiva; 09-28-2011 at 12:15 PM.
09-28-2011, 12:34 PM
#19
According to the FSM, the theft warning relay is in the passenger side relay box (near the horn) left hand side of the box, second from the top...if I'm reading this correctly.
I still don't think you have a problem with the security system. I think the mechanic is seeing the symptom and not the problem. There are two wires that send 12v from the ignition switch to the starter. Both have to be energized at the same time, as well as both ignition wires. I think you still have a bad ignition switch....but, it's hard to diagnose 100% over the internet.
I still don't think you have a problem with the security system. I think the mechanic is seeing the symptom and not the problem. There are two wires that send 12v from the ignition switch to the starter. Both have to be energized at the same time, as well as both ignition wires. I think you still have a bad ignition switch....but, it's hard to diagnose 100% over the internet.
09-28-2011, 12:38 PM
#20
If I were there to test your car I would make a ignition harness jumper. Basically, you use t-taps and wire to jump the 12v constant wire to the ignitions and accessory wire...and then simultaneously tap the starter wires to see if it starts. This is basically how you hot-wire a car.
09-28-2011, 01:27 PM
#21
09-28-2011, 01:47 PM
#22
You claim that Nissan "typically switch colors before and after plugs". This depends on your line of thinking. My line of thinking says no.
Nissan pretty much always changes a wire color after the signal goes through another device. Since the next device can modify the signal, using the same color would be misleading as the signal may be changed by that device. When one wire harness plugs into another wire harness as a continuation, even then the color doesn't change. There are probably exceptions, but I can't say that I recall one. There is one situation, though, where you will find a color change. That is where the wire goes to some optional piece of equipment that is not installed.
09-28-2011, 02:04 PM
#23
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Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 104
Alright, the mechanic said he's able to get it started, but he's got to follow about a 30-minute process. Hopefully he doesn't charge much, but I'll be able to get it home to do some work on it.
My first step is going to be to bypass the anti-theft relay by jumping pins 3 & 4. If this works, then I know it is the anti-theft. If it doesn't work, then it's either the ignition switch or the starter. If it does work, then I'll either replace the anti-theft mechanism, or prevent theft the old way. Does this sound like a good plan?
My first step is going to be to bypass the anti-theft relay by jumping pins 3 & 4. If this works, then I know it is the anti-theft. If it doesn't work, then it's either the ignition switch or the starter. If it does work, then I'll either replace the anti-theft mechanism, or prevent theft the old way. Does this sound like a good plan?
09-28-2011, 02:09 PM
#24
I was specifically talking about the ignition harness plug at the steering column. I have installed hundreds of remote start systems, lots of japanese vehicles have wire color changes for no reason other than it's on a different side of the ignition switch harness plug. I can't recall if that is the case with the maxima, sometimes the cars just blur together and it's hard for me to remember specifics. I'm not trying to give false info, so maybe I should just wait until I can verify the colors first hand. I'll be installing an alarm/remote start in my car in the near future.
09-28-2011, 02:12 PM
#25
Try that jumper I suggested, it will eliminate the ignition switch 100%. You can just unplug the ignition switch and push in some wires there to make an easy reversible jumper.
09-28-2011, 05:26 PM
#26
I seriously doubt if the starter itself is the problem. As you told us in an earlier post, the mechanic wired directly to the starter and it works.
You should have asked him to make that jumper for you. Another 5 minute project - an inch of wire and 2 spade connectors. Doesn't have to be thick wire, it will have less than an amp of electricity going through it. Probably too late in the day now.
You should have asked him to make that jumper for you. Another 5 minute project - an inch of wire and 2 spade connectors. Doesn't have to be thick wire, it will have less than an amp of electricity going through it. Probably too late in the day now.
09-28-2011, 06:06 PM
#27
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Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 104
UPDATE
So I got it home today (problem unfixed) and started trying things. I tried jumping pins 3 & 4 of the anti-theft / start relay, and it had no effect. I believe this confirms beegeezy's belief that it is not the anti-theft system.
Well, for the short-term, I wired up a switch and some wire so that I can at least start it inside the car. Basically the switch either connects or disconnects the +12V to the starter and the +12V terminal of the battery.
Would you all agree that the ignition switch is definitely the problem? I did abuse it quite a bit out of anger when I couldn't turn my key. If you guys can help me establish that it's 95% certain the ignition switch, the mechanic will likely replace it at a discounted rate.
^^ Am I a mechanic yet? :P
So I got it home today (problem unfixed) and started trying things. I tried jumping pins 3 & 4 of the anti-theft / start relay, and it had no effect. I believe this confirms beegeezy's belief that it is not the anti-theft system.
Well, for the short-term, I wired up a switch and some wire so that I can at least start it inside the car. Basically the switch either connects or disconnects the +12V to the starter and the +12V terminal of the battery.
Would you all agree that the ignition switch is definitely the problem? I did abuse it quite a bit out of anger when I couldn't turn my key. If you guys can help me establish that it's 95% certain the ignition switch, the mechanic will likely replace it at a discounted rate.
^^ Am I a mechanic yet? :P
Last edited by 88FordFestiva; 09-28-2011 at 06:18 PM.
09-28-2011, 06:16 PM
#28
Try making a jumper like that on the ignition switch like I suggested. It should be very easy, just remember that you need to "light up" the wires in order like you would with turning the key. 12volt to accessory, then the two ignition wires, then tap (hold briefly) the two starter wires and the car should start. If it does your ignition switch is 100% the problem.
09-28-2011, 10:22 PM
#29
I'm on my phone so I can't link. Someone please link the ign switch video showing replacement and more to the point actuation with a screwdriver. I'm still thinking the lock cylinder is fubared and switch is probably fine. If it starts with a screwdriver you've found the problem.
09-28-2011, 10:40 PM
#30
09-28-2011, 10:44 PM
#31
http://forums.maxima.org/4th-generat...lots-pics.html
Here's the video by itself:
Video tutorial:
09-29-2011, 05:39 PM
#34
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Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 104
UPDATE
I took apart the steering column as shown in the video (thank you so much for posting it), and I started the car by turning the ignition switch with a screwdriver. So I figure the lock cylinder is not turning it all the way.
It seems I will have to buy a $140 steering lock set. Do these just come with a key already made then?
I took apart the steering column as shown in the video (thank you so much for posting it), and I started the car by turning the ignition switch with a screwdriver. So I figure the lock cylinder is not turning it all the way.
It seems I will have to buy a $140 steering lock set. Do these just come with a key already made then?
09-29-2011, 06:24 PM
#35
UPDATE
I took apart the steering column as shown in the video (thank you so much for posting it), and I started the car by turning the ignition switch with a screwdriver. So I figure the lock cylinder is not turning it all the way.
It seems I will have to buy a $140 steering lock set. Do these just come with a key already made then?
I took apart the steering column as shown in the video (thank you so much for posting it), and I started the car by turning the ignition switch with a screwdriver. So I figure the lock cylinder is not turning it all the way.
It seems I will have to buy a $140 steering lock set. Do these just come with a key already made then?
Good to hear it was just the switch.
09-29-2011, 07:04 PM
#36
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Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 104
Actually, I managed to fix it for zero dollars. The tab stemming from the lock cylinder was just loose enough to not turn the ignition switch. I put about 5 little pieces of duct tape in the ignition switch to snug it up, and it seems to work perfectly now!
09-29-2011, 07:16 PM
#37
09-29-2011, 07:19 PM
#38
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Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 104
I know, right?! Thanks for all the help. It was free to fix, but only after paying well over $200 for a tow, rental car, and mechanic who couldn't fix it. The best part about all this is that it was totally new to me. I had never hot-wired a car or taken apart the ignition assembly.
09-29-2011, 07:24 PM
#39
I know, right?! Thanks for all the help. It was free to fix, but only after paying well over $200 for a tow, rental car, and mechanic who couldn't fix it. The best part about all this is that it was totally new to me. I had never hot-wired a car or taken apart the ignition assembly.
09-29-2011, 08:09 PM
#40