What are the actual gains of .......
01-28-2002, 10:55 PM
#1
What are the actual gains of .......
I'm talking about the upper resonator in between the MAF and TB, there's been a lot of talk surrounding this question, but does anyone have any timeslpis/dynos to prove actual gains?
From a scientific view, there would be less resonance, hence some low end loss. But less resonance is better for power up top.
But why do CAI's with this same 'resonator eliminator' give better low end intead of worse? Is it because of the long tube of the CAI?
What if you left the stock resontaor on the CAI insteasd of replacing it with the tube the CAI company provides, and assemble the rest of the CAI, except for the top portion, would this result in even better low-mid range power?
From a scientific view, there would be less resonance, hence some low end loss. But less resonance is better for power up top.
But why do CAI's with this same 'resonator eliminator' give better low end intead of worse? Is it because of the long tube of the CAI?
What if you left the stock resontaor on the CAI insteasd of replacing it with the tube the CAI company provides, and assemble the rest of the CAI, except for the top portion, would this result in even better low-mid range power?
01-29-2002, 03:25 AM
#2
Donating Maxima.org Member
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 577
Hello NmexMax:
You ask a good question.
Remember, it is flow velocity that helps to produce torque.
Do not confuse "better low end velocity" with excessive "intake restriction".
Just because an intake is restrictive via complex resonator shapes does not mean that it can provide better low end torque.
Things like flow velocity are easy to visualize with tubular shapes like intake runners and CAIs. Engines can work easier to pump air through tubular shapes rather than complex resonator shapes.
Consequently, engines can be tuned easier with simple tubular shapes by varying diameter and length.
With the stock resonator between the MAF and throttle body, there is not a direct "line of sight" between the inlet and outlet ports of the resonator. Between that and the resonator attachments, air flow becomes very disrupted. The engine must rev higher to begin pulling in amounts of air that would approach maxing out the MAF meter (which I think is somewhere around 4.5 volts)
With the stock resonator, the best part of the torque curve in my engine started around 3500RPM and was down maybe around 20% at 2500RPM. I always felt a quick surge begining right around 3500RPM meaning that just lower at 3200, torque was down maybe 20%.
Removing the stock resonator extended the start of the power band down below 3000RPM -- I felt a benefit extending down to 2500 RPM.
Torque was improved slightly above 3500 and significantly between 3000-and 3500rpms and a gradual improvement from 2500 thru 3000RPM. Basically all because the engine is able to pull in more air from lower speed reduced pumping losses.
As for noise, the increase with just the CAI upper section is very minimal... it takes a wide open throttle to even notice mild increases in noise. To the human ear, it might sound 10% louder under wide open throttle.
Now if you have one of those lamp shade sytle cone intakes, its going to be very loud no matter what -- even that aside, the CAI upper section won't make the loud cone intakes any louder.
As for dyno results, I can't say cause I have an automatic and autos can't run on dyno machines below around 4000RPM -- since when you floor it, the engine downshifts so its impossible to get results at low RPMs with autos aside from "seat of the pants" feel.
I didn't notice any detrimental effect below 2500RPM.
That mod is definitely worth it and Place Racing sells the upper section alone for just $60 dollars. Lower mid range is definitely improved with just this piece even without the lower section of the CAI and running the stock airbox instead. Get it in silver to match the engine colors and get an extra set of black vacuum hoses for a very stock look.
You ask a good question.
Remember, it is flow velocity that helps to produce torque.
Do not confuse "better low end velocity" with excessive "intake restriction".
Just because an intake is restrictive via complex resonator shapes does not mean that it can provide better low end torque.
Things like flow velocity are easy to visualize with tubular shapes like intake runners and CAIs. Engines can work easier to pump air through tubular shapes rather than complex resonator shapes.
Consequently, engines can be tuned easier with simple tubular shapes by varying diameter and length.
With the stock resonator between the MAF and throttle body, there is not a direct "line of sight" between the inlet and outlet ports of the resonator. Between that and the resonator attachments, air flow becomes very disrupted. The engine must rev higher to begin pulling in amounts of air that would approach maxing out the MAF meter (which I think is somewhere around 4.5 volts)
With the stock resonator, the best part of the torque curve in my engine started around 3500RPM and was down maybe around 20% at 2500RPM. I always felt a quick surge begining right around 3500RPM meaning that just lower at 3200, torque was down maybe 20%.
Removing the stock resonator extended the start of the power band down below 3000RPM -- I felt a benefit extending down to 2500 RPM.
Torque was improved slightly above 3500 and significantly between 3000-and 3500rpms and a gradual improvement from 2500 thru 3000RPM. Basically all because the engine is able to pull in more air from lower speed reduced pumping losses.
As for noise, the increase with just the CAI upper section is very minimal... it takes a wide open throttle to even notice mild increases in noise. To the human ear, it might sound 10% louder under wide open throttle.
Now if you have one of those lamp shade sytle cone intakes, its going to be very loud no matter what -- even that aside, the CAI upper section won't make the loud cone intakes any louder.
As for dyno results, I can't say cause I have an automatic and autos can't run on dyno machines below around 4000RPM -- since when you floor it, the engine downshifts so its impossible to get results at low RPMs with autos aside from "seat of the pants" feel.
I didn't notice any detrimental effect below 2500RPM.
That mod is definitely worth it and Place Racing sells the upper section alone for just $60 dollars. Lower mid range is definitely improved with just this piece even without the lower section of the CAI and running the stock airbox instead. Get it in silver to match the engine colors and get an extra set of black vacuum hoses for a very stock look.
01-29-2002, 06:26 AM
#3
Thnx for the insight, it made a lot of sense. Now I think i will either get the PR upper tube or maybe Frankencars portion, or maybe just make one out of a friends old CAI tube, drill a couple of holes for the vacuum lines, tap them in, and buy some couplers from ace or something. thhx again. I will admit that one of my friends CAI in his MAxima is a lot louder than mine, they sound pretty much the same at ~3000 rpms, but after that his is a lot louder.
01-29-2002, 12:27 PM
#5
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,084
Originally posted by NmexMAX
Thnx for the insight, it made a lot of sense. Now I think i will either get the PR upper tube or maybe Frankencars portion, or maybe just make one out of a friends old CAI tube, drill a couple of holes for the vacuum lines, tap them in, and buy some couplers from ace or something. thhx again. I will admit that one of my friends CAI in his MAxima is a lot louder than mine, they sound pretty much the same at ~3000 rpms, but after that his is a lot louder.
Thnx for the insight, it made a lot of sense. Now I think i will either get the PR upper tube or maybe Frankencars portion, or maybe just make one out of a friends old CAI tube, drill a couple of holes for the vacuum lines, tap them in, and buy some couplers from ace or something. thhx again. I will admit that one of my friends CAI in his MAxima is a lot louder than mine, they sound pretty much the same at ~3000 rpms, but after that his is a lot louder.
02-01-2002, 08:28 AM
#6
Great Post......
I have a JWT intake and I am getting rid of the resonator this weekend. I will keep you posted
Originally posted by chris j vurnis
Hello NmexMax:
You ask a good question.
Remember, it is flow velocity that helps to produce torque.
Do not confuse "better low end velocity" with excessive "intake restriction".
Just because an intake is restrictive via complex resonator shapes does not mean that it can provide better low end torque.
Things like flow velocity are easy to visualize with tubular shapes like intake runners and CAIs. Engines can work easier to pump air through tubular shapes rather than complex resonator shapes.
Consequently, engines can be tuned easier with simple tubular shapes by varying diameter and length.
With the stock resonator between the MAF and throttle body, there is not a direct "line of sight" between the inlet and outlet ports of the resonator. Between that and the resonator attachments, air flow becomes very disrupted. The engine must rev higher to begin pulling in amounts of air that would approach maxing out the MAF meter (which I think is somewhere around 4.5 volts)
With the stock resonator, the best part of the torque curve in my engine started around 3500RPM and was down maybe around 20% at 2500RPM. I always felt a quick surge begining right around 3500RPM meaning that just lower at 3200, torque was down maybe 20%.
Removing the stock resonator extended the start of the power band down below 3000RPM -- I felt a benefit extending down to 2500 RPM.
Torque was improved slightly above 3500 and significantly between 3000-and 3500rpms and a gradual improvement from 2500 thru 3000RPM. Basically all because the engine is able to pull in more air from lower speed reduced pumping losses.
As for noise, the increase with just the CAI upper section is very minimal... it takes a wide open throttle to even notice mild increases in noise. To the human ear, it might sound 10% louder under wide open throttle.
Now if you have one of those lamp shade sytle cone intakes, its going to be very loud no matter what -- even that aside, the CAI upper section won't make the loud cone intakes any louder.
As for dyno results, I can't say cause I have an automatic and autos can't run on dyno machines below around 4000RPM -- since when you floor it, the engine downshifts so its impossible to get results at low RPMs with autos aside from "seat of the pants" feel.
I didn't notice any detrimental effect below 2500RPM.
That mod is definitely worth it and Place Racing sells the upper section alone for just $60 dollars. Lower mid range is definitely improved with just this piece even without the lower section of the CAI and running the stock airbox instead. Get it in silver to match the engine colors and get an extra set of black vacuum hoses for a very stock look.
Hello NmexMax:
You ask a good question.
Remember, it is flow velocity that helps to produce torque.
Do not confuse "better low end velocity" with excessive "intake restriction".
Just because an intake is restrictive via complex resonator shapes does not mean that it can provide better low end torque.
Things like flow velocity are easy to visualize with tubular shapes like intake runners and CAIs. Engines can work easier to pump air through tubular shapes rather than complex resonator shapes.
Consequently, engines can be tuned easier with simple tubular shapes by varying diameter and length.
With the stock resonator between the MAF and throttle body, there is not a direct "line of sight" between the inlet and outlet ports of the resonator. Between that and the resonator attachments, air flow becomes very disrupted. The engine must rev higher to begin pulling in amounts of air that would approach maxing out the MAF meter (which I think is somewhere around 4.5 volts)
With the stock resonator, the best part of the torque curve in my engine started around 3500RPM and was down maybe around 20% at 2500RPM. I always felt a quick surge begining right around 3500RPM meaning that just lower at 3200, torque was down maybe 20%.
Removing the stock resonator extended the start of the power band down below 3000RPM -- I felt a benefit extending down to 2500 RPM.
Torque was improved slightly above 3500 and significantly between 3000-and 3500rpms and a gradual improvement from 2500 thru 3000RPM. Basically all because the engine is able to pull in more air from lower speed reduced pumping losses.
As for noise, the increase with just the CAI upper section is very minimal... it takes a wide open throttle to even notice mild increases in noise. To the human ear, it might sound 10% louder under wide open throttle.
Now if you have one of those lamp shade sytle cone intakes, its going to be very loud no matter what -- even that aside, the CAI upper section won't make the loud cone intakes any louder.
As for dyno results, I can't say cause I have an automatic and autos can't run on dyno machines below around 4000RPM -- since when you floor it, the engine downshifts so its impossible to get results at low RPMs with autos aside from "seat of the pants" feel.
I didn't notice any detrimental effect below 2500RPM.
That mod is definitely worth it and Place Racing sells the upper section alone for just $60 dollars. Lower mid range is definitely improved with just this piece even without the lower section of the CAI and running the stock airbox instead. Get it in silver to match the engine colors and get an extra set of black vacuum hoses for a very stock look.
02-01-2002, 10:51 AM
#7
Can someone tell me...
...where is this resonator thing? I put my Stillen intake about 4 weeks back, and I removed the stock air box, but I left the front pipe (the one attached to the front of the engine bay and went down and up again to supply the air to the stock airbox) in place.
Will removing the resonator increase hp gain?
I am sorry if this sounds stupid, but I am not familiar with this "resonator"...thing...
Will removing the resonator increase hp gain?
I am sorry if this sounds stupid, but I am not familiar with this "resonator"...thing...
02-01-2002, 03:29 PM
#8
Re: Can someone tell me...
The resonator I am talking about is located between the Throttle Body and the Mass Air Flow Sensor. It's a black plastic rectangular looking box that has three hoses connected to it, one from the front valve cover, and the other from the throttle body assembly, with a smaller diamter hose the connectes next to the larger one from the throttle body. Hope this helps. I dont know of the gains, but in theory you would seem to gain something performance wise, hopefully not just sound.
02-01-2002, 04:00 PM
#9
Guest
Posts: n/a
Originally posted by JAIMECBR900
I have your exact same car except mine is a GLE same color and everything. Anyway, I have the PR CAI and a catback system. I will agree with the DR. above. I noticed gains from about 2500 to about redline. My question to you is; Are you trying to do the most hp or the most hp for the $? I am very satisfied with my CAI, but i do know that Warpspeed now sells the almost identically same one as PR for less. Some time ago they used to sell it but w/o K&N filter which did not yield same results, now they have the CAI using K&N and are cheaper.
I have your exact same car except mine is a GLE same color and everything. Anyway, I have the PR CAI and a catback system. I will agree with the DR. above. I noticed gains from about 2500 to about redline. My question to you is; Are you trying to do the most hp or the most hp for the $? I am very satisfied with my CAI, but i do know that Warpspeed now sells the almost identically same one as PR for less. Some time ago they used to sell it but w/o K&N filter which did not yield same results, now they have the CAI using K&N and are cheaper.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
my03maxima
7th Generation Maxima (2009-2015)
8
04-29-2020 12:48 AM
mkaresh
8th Generation Maxima (2016-)
21
03-12-2018 06:48 PM