KP11520

So for a very long time my 99 SE has been clunking and rattling from the front end. Car was pretty quiet until the struts were done just over 100K. KYB GR2's were done by a mechanic and it rode HARD and more noisy. After almost a year I asked the mechanic to drive the car home that night while working on another problem and he agreed the KYBs were too harsh and replaced them with Monroe. For some reason they rode a little softer, but still weren't right and still too noisy.

So for the next 5 or 6 years, the car got more loud and clunky and I couldn't take it any more. I started with redoing all 4 struts with Moog Problem Solver assemblies. Better but still too much noise. Then I did the LCA's all new with bushings and ball joints and sway bar bushings and end links. Better but still not quiet like it should be.

Then it got noisy again after a year and found the front strut mounts and bearings were toasted already. Paid $400 to have them replaced with whatever the mechanic used, which he said in his experience were better than OEM. Quieter for a couple thousand miles with other noises still but now beyond noisy again and worse than ever.

A member here that has a shop near me, Maximum Tuning, said he'd look at it. He put it up on a lift and said the subframe and/or bushings wasn't the problem, but he feels it's the struts.

So he wants to use the economy Nissan struts and the moog springs and new mounts and all. $650. I'm not convinced it's just the struts. When everything was new up front, it was still noisy. Something else is slapping on rough roads and now it's worse.

If the struts get done again, I'm buying a spring compressor (around $40 on sale with better than 4 stars in several places) and building and installing them myself. I can have each out in 15 minutes.

OEM everything is over $600 per side for me assembling them myself. OUCH

Other ways to get there? Tokico HPs (Blue)? ($125 shipped each) Reuse Moog Springs? Or OEM $130 each? All the rest of the parts will be OEM, because that's what was in the car when it last sounded right and many say OEM mounts and hardware is the only way to get what this car likes. What about just reusing the Moog struts and springs and OEM everything else? Used OEM springs are probably pretty cheap. (If they really are OEM).

Also, other than the subframe moving and slapping because the upper and lower washer bushings are gone in all 4 corners, what else can cause so much clunking and slapping that hasn't been done in a little over 2 years?

There are many threads here asking the same question. Did everything but so much noise. But those threads never mentioned the subframe bushing problems.

I want to torch this POS like you can't imagine. It is beyond unnerving how loud it is. I am afraid to drive anywhere out of town.

I'm hoping we can get this figured out. All of those other threads were never resolved. CS_AR seems to be the only one addressing the subframe issue that I can see. I have never wasted so much money with such negative results in my life.

maximaxi

Those Moog assemblies are Chinese.

Your best bet is Monroe quick struts, which have a lifetime warranty, which covers all components of the assembly.

DennisMik

iTrader: (2)

if you have been reading Maxima.org regularly, a disturbing number of people are reporting problems with the Monroe quick struts. Looks like Monroe is having problems iwth quality control right now.

KP11520

Thank you Dennis! I'm glad you p[aid attention to the fact Monroe is what came out for the Moogs to go in! But you always pay attention to the details and that is why I always appreciate your participation!

And you're always right!

maximaxi

I thought you had only used the struts themselves (only the struts, not the complete assembly).

I had read your post as saying you replaced the KYB (bare) struts with Monroe bare struts, and then used Moog assemblies. That is, when you had the Monroes on, that you still had the old hardware on.

That is why I had suggested their quick struts.

Sorry for misunderstanding your earlier post.

KP11520

No Problem maxi2X.... The mechanic I used did what was good for him. Never again. I wish I still had the original OEM springs. That'd be $260 in savings to get back to as close to OEM as possible for the fronts alone. And a few other parts that could be cleaned up and reused. Now it's everything new. OUCH.

A lot of the mechanics I queried about this say the OEM mounts and other supporting parts other than springs and struts are the safest bet for a long term quiet ride. They've usually had way to many problems with KYB and Monroe and all the others. And unhappy customers.

Now, I'm trying to find out if I can use the Moog springs and also maybe the Moog struts with everything else being OEM or do I need to go further with a better strut. And what about the springs?

Hoping the guys that have done a bunch of these will chime in! Many have done new lowering springs and struts that work well with the lowering. What's their experiences with all the other parts for a quiet and reliable ride?
Nothing replaces experience.

And we haven't even started on the subframe and how much noise comes from it with degraded bushings yet!

CS_AR

I think the springs should be ok and would not contribute to noise. So if you like the ride and the spring height, no reason to change the springs.

One thing I've learned after all of these years is parts like OEM strut mounts, bearings, boots, and "add on" insulators seem to make the difference. To me struts and springs are a performance option that should be largely based on driving preference.

I really like the Koni street performance struts on the 98 model with the H & R lowering springs. Also, I like the KYB AGX with H & R lowering springs on the 99 model. However, the ride and handling characteristics that I work to get may be a bit crisp for most people. You won't see me talk much about suspension comfort. Its all about responsiveness and handling.

Not everybody likes a ride that is more like the Studebaker in the picture below. Ha!



It doesn't mean a stiff suspension has to be noisy. I've learned a few things this year on the 98 model project that I need to rework on the 99 model.

The items to rework are:

1) Dead Spring Insulators - The dead springs on the 99 model rub and make a small amount of noise over bumps. The last time I looked, the paint was worn off and bare metal was beginning to show (and rust) on the rear dead springs.

2) A strut bearing or upper mount is making noise on the 99 model's passenger side. I need to purchase the thicker OEM SE/Touring type strut mounts along with new bearings. I will be putting those parts on 3 year old KYB AGX struts. Three years ago when I built the 99 model's suspension, I didn't understand the difference that comes with the SE/Touring upper mounts. So you live and learn. I'm trying to decide if I want to rework the parts around 3+ year old KYB AGX struts with over 40,000 miles, or just wait another year until the struts have over 60,000 miles and just replace them with Koni orange.

The subframe spacer enhancement was all about changing steering and handling characteristics. The idea is to have an extremely tight and responsive feel over comfort. Any noise reduction came along as strictly a byproduct.

KP11520

As always, Thank You Craig! PM sent!

My uncle had a Hawk with an oversized V8. Sheared axles every time he tried to race. But it somehow rode better than that previous version you show above! LOL

CS_AR

Very cool picture Keith. I didn't realize they were the worlds largest manufacturer or wagons before automobiles came along.