Put it back together and horrible knock sound
05-29-2017, 07:15 PM
#1
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Put it back together and horrible knock sound
FOUND THE CAUSE: stripped threads on middle left UIM bolt. The hole feeds straight into the intake, hence the scraps I found. Damage to the engine? Noise went away as soon as I gave up on getting whatever was in there out, floored it down the road and it was gone. I have had a y pipe header leak which I took it back into the muffler shop for them to make right like they were supposed to months ago along with rethreaded that bolt hole because the bolt wouldn't tighten, I didn't even both to look in but there's still scraps down in there or now new ones, and I told him I wanted to vacuum those out so they don't get sucked in but they didn't even have a vacuum so I gotta take one in, as far as I know there could already be new scraps in there waiting for me when I pick the car up if he neglected to remove then before starting the car again :/
i did my injectors a cpl months ago and didn't lube them correctly causing a gas leak and starting problems. Replaced injector orings, knock sensor (the harness plastic right next to the clip broke but I thought I did a good job jbwelding it) and swapped Cali to fed spec lower manifold.
car all back together and I get nasty knocking/ticking coming from uim area it sounds like. Would knock sensor cause this do I need a new harness?
i did my injectors a cpl months ago and didn't lube them correctly causing a gas leak and starting problems. Replaced injector orings, knock sensor (the harness plastic right next to the clip broke but I thought I did a good job jbwelding it) and swapped Cali to fed spec lower manifold.
car all back together and I get nasty knocking/ticking coming from uim area it sounds like. Would knock sensor cause this do I need a new harness?
Last edited by Violator; 08-22-2017 at 03:41 AM.
05-30-2017, 03:02 AM
#2
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Is the knocking at idle? Are you getting a KS code? The knock sensor is a little microphone that listens for a knock and retards timing.
I would pick up a mechanics stethoscope from a parts store or Harbor Freight and probe around the area where you hear the knock to pinpoint the source. Hopefully, a bolt did not get dropped in some part of the intake while everything was taken apart.
Sometimes when an engine sits for an extended period of time, noises from the timing chain cover area or valve clearance spacers will appear until enough oil pressure and flow returns for the tensioners to remove any chain slack or for oil to flow in the valve spacer area to quieten little tapping noises.
On one of my VQ30s, it takes a minute for the timing chain tensioner to recover from sitting all night, so I get some noise from the timing chain slapping the guides when it first starts up. I know I need to replace the tensioner and possibly the guides at some point.
I would pick up a mechanics stethoscope from a parts store or Harbor Freight and probe around the area where you hear the knock to pinpoint the source. Hopefully, a bolt did not get dropped in some part of the intake while everything was taken apart.
Sometimes when an engine sits for an extended period of time, noises from the timing chain cover area or valve clearance spacers will appear until enough oil pressure and flow returns for the tensioners to remove any chain slack or for oil to flow in the valve spacer area to quieten little tapping noises.
On one of my VQ30s, it takes a minute for the timing chain tensioner to recover from sitting all night, so I get some noise from the timing chain slapping the guides when it first starts up. I know I need to replace the tensioner and possibly the guides at some point.
05-30-2017, 06:42 AM
#3
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It seems to be coming from the lower intake manifold. If it was a bolt or something like that how do I retrieve it?
i do get timing chain noise when it's cold, I'll swap when this motor goes out... Thought it had a lot of life left then I ran it like this...
i do get timing chain noise when it's cold, I'll swap when this motor goes out... Thought it had a lot of life left then I ran it like this...
Last edited by Violator; 05-30-2017 at 06:49 AM.
05-30-2017, 06:58 AM
#4
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If it really is coming from the LIM area. Then a visual inspection and a mechanics magnet would be good. If a bolt or piece of metal did get in the valve area there could be damage.
05-30-2017, 07:05 AM
#5
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Where do I look? The area beneath the lim? I've never gone deeper in the car than the lim I'll tear it apart and look I just don't wanna go in stupid if I need to go deeper in the car
05-30-2017, 09:18 AM
#7
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For the amount of work it takes to do a TC tensioner, you might as well do the water pump, timing chain and gear kit, and anything else that's prone to wear with mileage.
For that new car quiet and reliability we all loved from the past.
Good luck getting to the bottom of this!
Knock Knock!
Who's there? Wait... I don't want to know.... Just go away!
If it were only that simple!
For that new car quiet and reliability we all loved from the past.
Good luck getting to the bottom of this!
Knock Knock!
Who's there? Wait... I don't want to know.... Just go away!
If it were only that simple!
05-30-2017, 06:44 PM
#12
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How hard is it to go deeper than the lim? I'll actually take the lim off this time but I couldn't see anything and didn't feel anything with the magnet
05-30-2017, 10:28 PM
#13
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Location: Portland, Oregon
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Violator, sooner or later, most of us have learning experiences like this. One time I helped a friend
rebuild a carburetor on a 69 Ford Mustang.
Seemed that a washer which was under the mounting bolts disappered. All was well before he went on a drive. Bad noises followed.
A mechanic found what was left of that washer rammed through the piston and a valve. Fortunately his father was a doctor with money. The friend never asked me for help again.
I learned to be very careful around intake manifolds. No adult beverages either.
rebuild a carburetor on a 69 Ford Mustang.
Seemed that a washer which was under the mounting bolts disappered. All was well before he went on a drive. Bad noises followed.
A mechanic found what was left of that washer rammed through the piston and a valve. Fortunately his father was a doctor with money. The friend never asked me for help again.
I learned to be very careful around intake manifolds. No adult beverages either.
05-30-2017, 11:29 PM
#14
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Join Date: Apr 2015
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Violator, sooner or later, most of us have learning experiences like this. One time I helped a friend
rebuild a carburetor on a 69 Ford Mustang.
Seemed that a washer which was under the mounting bolts disappered. All was well before he went on a drive. Bad noises followed.
A mechanic found what was left of that washer rammed through the piston and a valve. Fortunately his father was a doctor with money. The friend never asked me for help again.
I learned to be very careful around intake manifolds. No adult beverages either.
rebuild a carburetor on a 69 Ford Mustang.
Seemed that a washer which was under the mounting bolts disappered. All was well before he went on a drive. Bad noises followed.
A mechanic found what was left of that washer rammed through the piston and a valve. Fortunately his father was a doctor with money. The friend never asked me for help again.
I learned to be very careful around intake manifolds. No adult beverages either.
But I'm completely dumb as to where it would go, idk what's past the lower intake manifold
05-31-2017, 01:56 AM
#15
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While I don't know specifics about the inside of our engines, I can tell you for sure that the crankshaft and connecting rods are down there.
This would be a very bad place for missing hardware to end up. Imagine the crank rotation there, and the connecting rods coming in contact with with stray metal objects. Not pretty.
This would be a very bad place for missing hardware to end up. Imagine the crank rotation there, and the connecting rods coming in contact with with stray metal objects. Not pretty.
05-31-2017, 01:22 PM
#16
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While I don't know specifics about the inside of our engines, I can tell you for sure that the crankshaft and connecting rods are down there.
This would be a very bad place for missing hardware to end up. Imagine the crank rotation there, and the connecting rods coming in contact with with stray metal objects. Not pretty.
This would be a very bad place for missing hardware to end up. Imagine the crank rotation there, and the connecting rods coming in contact with with stray metal objects. Not pretty.
what is right below the lim? I can't see anything in any of those little spaces and Idk how to get any deeper in the engine. I have the Lim off and I'd like to keep looking just in case than put it back together and cross my fingers the other tiny pieces were the problem.
06-01-2017, 03:03 PM
#17
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Join Date: Jun 2017
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The engine is below the intake manifold.
Hard to tell if the car is making a death rattle or if something is correlated to your removal of components. I would take everything apart again and reassemble. See if it still makes the noise.
Hard to tell if the car is making a death rattle or if something is correlated to your removal of components. I would take everything apart again and reassemble. See if it still makes the noise.
06-01-2017, 03:12 PM
#18
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Join Date: Jun 2017
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Is the knocking at idle? Are you getting a KS code? The knock sensor is a little microphone that listens for a knock and retards timing.
I would pick up a mechanics stethoscope from a parts store or Harbor Freight and probe around the area where you hear the knock to pinpoint the source. Hopefully, a bolt did not get dropped in some part of the intake while everything was taken apart.
Sometimes when an engine sits for an extended period of time, noises from the timing chain cover area or valve clearance spacers will appear until enough oil pressure and flow returns for the tensioners to remove any chain slack or for oil to flow in the valve spacer area to quieten little tapping noises.
On one of my VQ30s, it takes a minute for the timing chain tensioner to recover from sitting all night, so I get some noise from the timing chain slapping the guides when it first starts up. I know I need to replace the tensioner and possibly the guides at some point.
I would pick up a mechanics stethoscope from a parts store or Harbor Freight and probe around the area where you hear the knock to pinpoint the source. Hopefully, a bolt did not get dropped in some part of the intake while everything was taken apart.
Sometimes when an engine sits for an extended period of time, noises from the timing chain cover area or valve clearance spacers will appear until enough oil pressure and flow returns for the tensioners to remove any chain slack or for oil to flow in the valve spacer area to quieten little tapping noises.
On one of my VQ30s, it takes a minute for the timing chain tensioner to recover from sitting all night, so I get some noise from the timing chain slapping the guides when it first starts up. I know I need to replace the tensioner and possibly the guides at some point.
The tensioner itself should only take a few hours to replace since it can be accessed through the small panel on the side. The guides might require removing the cover, though...
And removing the cover and/or the timing chain could take days depending on tools and experience. I simply refuse since my AC is in perfectly good working condition.
Know anyone with a motor stethoscope? They could tell you where the sound is coming from. The human "calibrated" ear usually can't differentiate between echo or reverberation of a sound and the actual source of the sound, especially under a hood.
06-01-2017, 05:06 PM
#19
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Vaccumed out intake manifold, noise remains. Removed front valve cover didn't see anything
Here's a clip of the sound and with a stethoscope it actually sounds loudest if I put it on the valve cover by coil #2 in the front left. I also thought I saw a little smoke around there.
The other noise is an exhaust leak.
Tomorrow I'll see if AutoZone will loan me a borescope and look down underneath the sparkplug. Any other suggestions?
Here's a clip of the sound and with a stethoscope it actually sounds loudest if I put it on the valve cover by coil #2 in the front left. I also thought I saw a little smoke around there.
The other noise is an exhaust leak.
Tomorrow I'll see if AutoZone will loan me a borescope and look down underneath the sparkplug. Any other suggestions?
Last edited by Violator; 06-02-2017 at 08:52 AM.
06-01-2017, 06:44 PM
#20
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Location: Portland, Oregon
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Get a compression tester while you are there.
Remove all spark plugs. Take readings with the throttle wide open. Write down what the readind are for each cylinder.
Before you do this, remove the fuse for the fuel pump. It is on the rightmost row. Run the car till it stalls. This prevents gasoline from washing oIL from the cylender walls..
Good luck
Remove all spark plugs. Take readings with the throttle wide open. Write down what the readind are for each cylinder.
Before you do this, remove the fuse for the fuel pump. It is on the rightmost row. Run the car till it stalls. This prevents gasoline from washing oIL from the cylender walls..
Good luck
06-02-2017, 09:30 AM
#25
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Sounds real bad.
Have you been keeping oil in the motor? Is the car running funny?
I am thinking valve or rod. Never a good sound.
Or maybe something else is loose- externally- and chatting with the rpms of the motor (although it sounds like it is IN the motor). Does knock frequency consistently increase with rpm of the car?
Have you been keeping oil in the motor? Is the car running funny?
I am thinking valve or rod. Never a good sound.
Or maybe something else is loose- externally- and chatting with the rpms of the motor (although it sounds like it is IN the motor). Does knock frequency consistently increase with rpm of the car?
06-02-2017, 12:41 PM
#26
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This noise has occurred immediately after the uim was replaced. It has been confirmed that metalic debris has entered the lim. It is likely that the debris has entered the cylinder. The noise could be metal being hammered between the piston and the head.
Could also be a damaged valve.
Violator, buy a magnetic probe. It looks like a magnet at the end of what looks like an antenna. Common item at the parts store. Extend the probe, shove the magnet end into the cylinders. Perhaps you can find the metal. I'm assuming what's in there is steel.
Could also be a damaged valve.
Violator, buy a magnetic probe. It looks like a magnet at the end of what looks like an antenna. Common item at the parts store. Extend the probe, shove the magnet end into the cylinders. Perhaps you can find the metal. I'm assuming what's in there is steel.
06-02-2017, 01:05 PM
#27
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He should check to see if the debris is magnetic. Looks like VQ Kryptonite. Lex Luthor will require the purchase of a Senator and a few newspapers (to spin his angle) to import.
06-03-2017, 06:02 PM
#28
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With a magnet down through the spark plug holes I found what looked like a tiny metal shaving, unsure where I picked it up from in the spark plug area or actually down in there.
Now I also have rented a borescope camera, and the magnet attatchment is stuck magnetized just under the spark plug with a metal stem that attaches to the camera is now sticking up out of the spark plug hole. A 5/16 fuel hose picked up the plastic piece that holds it to the camera but the magnet itself is stuck in there and another magnet can't grab it
Now I also have rented a borescope camera, and the magnet attatchment is stuck magnetized just under the spark plug with a metal stem that attaches to the camera is now sticking up out of the spark plug hole. A 5/16 fuel hose picked up the plastic piece that holds it to the camera but the magnet itself is stuck in there and another magnet can't grab it
06-16-2017, 03:43 PM
#29
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I had a magnet stuck down in the spark plug hole I retrieved with special extra long pliers. I still have a borescope camera to use and a magnet down through the spark plug hopes did not fix my issue. Where else to look? Anyone? Or start giving advice on a 3.5 swap... 😞
Last edited by Violator; 06-16-2017 at 03:45 PM.
06-17-2017, 10:44 AM
#30
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Congatulatons about being able to retrive the magnet.
I would put a wrench on the crankshaft bolt, then turn the engine for two entire revolutions.
This will confirm that the engine has nothing to keep it from turning.
Once that's done, familiarize yourself with how to do a compression test. I would expect that the cylender with the metal bits in it will have considerably less compression than the others.
Report back and tell us what the readings are.
I would put a wrench on the crankshaft bolt, then turn the engine for two entire revolutions.
This will confirm that the engine has nothing to keep it from turning.
Once that's done, familiarize yourself with how to do a compression test. I would expect that the cylender with the metal bits in it will have considerably less compression than the others.
Report back and tell us what the readings are.
06-17-2017, 12:31 PM
#32
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Even with that borescope camera it's a little hard to tell bc of the oil. I have the batteries for it charging for more scouting
im not sure how easily the engine should turn over but I encounter varying resistance, and I had my friend listen to pistons 1 and 2 and he pointed to piston 2. If it's between the piston and the wall or whatever is below the piston what are my options?
im not sure how easily the engine should turn over but I encounter varying resistance, and I had my friend listen to pistons 1 and 2 and he pointed to piston 2. If it's between the piston and the wall or whatever is below the piston what are my options?
06-17-2017, 01:43 PM
#33
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The varying amounts of resistance comes from compression in the other cylenders. Which is why you should remove them. That way you will only feel resistance from the cylinder you are having trouble with.
The reason I want you to do a compression test is to see if you bent a valve, or if a bit of metal is keeping a valve open. If you encounter resistance
In the iffy cylinder, it's possible or likely that the piston hit the valve.
Frankly, I'm afraid that you need to replace your engine.
You might be able to remove the head, but that might be more work than replacing the engine.
The reason I want you to do a compression test is to see if you bent a valve, or if a bit of metal is keeping a valve open. If you encounter resistance
In the iffy cylinder, it's possible or likely that the piston hit the valve.
Frankly, I'm afraid that you need to replace your engine.
You might be able to remove the head, but that might be more work than replacing the engine.
08-22-2017, 03:43 AM
#34
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The varying amounts of resistance comes from compression in the other cylenders. Which is why you should remove them. That way you will only feel resistance from the cylinder you are having trouble with.
The reason I want you to do a compression test is to see if you bent a valve, or if a bit of metal is keeping a valve open. If you encounter resistance
In the iffy cylinder, it's possible or likely that the piston hit the valve.
Frankly, I'm afraid that you need to replace your engine.
You might be able to remove the head, but that might be more work than replacing the engine.
The reason I want you to do a compression test is to see if you bent a valve, or if a bit of metal is keeping a valve open. If you encounter resistance
In the iffy cylinder, it's possible or likely that the piston hit the valve.
Frankly, I'm afraid that you need to replace your engine.
You might be able to remove the head, but that might be more work than replacing the engine.
08-22-2017, 05:47 AM
#35
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Location: Central AR
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If your engine has been sitting for a long time, and you have turned over the engine a number of times without letting it start up, the timing chain tensioners will often be without oil until the engine starts and pressurized oil can refill the tensioner piston chambers. This happens when you replace timing chain tensioners.
So for example, when the engine is started for the first time after replacing the main tensioner, the engine will sound like it is going to come apart with all of the chain and valve train rattling noise. In this case, the noises will disappear after a few minutes of operation.
So for example, when the engine is started for the first time after replacing the main tensioner, the engine will sound like it is going to come apart with all of the chain and valve train rattling noise. In this case, the noises will disappear after a few minutes of operation.
