tonyg

I was looking at my dealers service schedule for the Max and at 15k,30k etc. they want to add "BG Premier Engine Protection".
Has anyone used this stuff before ? They also want to add the "Fuel System Cleaner" at 60k and 105k miles. What are your opinions on engine additives for the Max ??

Virus

iTrader: (1)

If you change your dino oil regularly or you use synthetics, there is no reason whatsoever to use any additives in your oil. The fuel system treatment intervals using BG44K are recommended and sound ok. No matter how good the gas is, your eventually going to have some carbon buildup, but using premium fuel should keep it to a minimum. I would NOT use any oil additives though. Things like Prolong, Duralube, etc., while they are slicker than oil, there additive packages deteriorate the metals in your engine. BG makes fantastic stuff and they definately do what they say, but it's just not necessary unless you don't change your oil on a regular basis.

iwannabmw

iTrader: (3)

Stay away from engine oil additves. Like Virus mentioned, the only additive that may be worth it in this case would be the fuel system cleaner, which is still too early for you.

BuddyWh

Any oil additives are revenue enhancers for them, and a rip-off for you.

Some fuel system cleaners are very benefitial: Chevron's Techron in particular has been tested and found highly effective by, among others, BMW. Dump a bottle of it in the last tank of gas before an oil change and it will keep deposits off valves and injectors clean.

But... you might also keep this in mind: Nissan recommends against use of fuel or oil additives in their manual. You might ask your dealer why they are over-ruling the manual's recommendations, just to get their reaction!

BuddyWh

NYC2SD

Its just a scam to make you spend more. Don't do it. Call 800-Nissan-1 and complain!

palmerwmd

Oil additives are ususally a scam (ZMax, Prolong etc etc), many of which will actually damage your engine.

BUT, B&G is not a scam.
It's a good product that (among other things) adds a zinc compound to your engine.
zinc is lower in modern oils to protect the cats in case of blowby.
But it's still a really good thing to have especially when your engine is new/newer and has no blowby.

Doesn't cost the world either.


Fred...

BuddyWh

Do you have any independant lab reports that substantiate that? With so many oil additve scams, it'd be nice to know this isn't just another one.

BuddyWh

palmerwmd

Making me put my money were my mouth is?

Well truth be told ,I don't have any, but I have hi confidence in the veracity of my post this is why:

A couple of gurus from my homesite (am not a Max owner but own a Q45 and stumbled here due to the one "Q vs Max" thread), agree.

Even as a degreed chemist, I trust their judgment and offer this explanation (partially plagiarized from one of our site gurus).

When car manufacturers needed to offer longer warranties on catalytic converters, they asked the motor oil manufacturers to scale back the amount of zinc in their oils.
Zinc is a good anti wear additive but poisons catalytic converters, so if you offer a 100k warranty on a cat, but you know too many of your engines will have blowby by then, it will cost you money to honor those warranties.

This went into the new oil standards (new by a few years ago) and now all oils are low on zinc (by older standards).
But if you dont have any significant blowby (few if any Nissan/Infiniti's do before 100k) then you want that extra zinc back.

I also know of many Infiniti dealers that include it as part of their oil change routine, and I have been impressed by the honesty and competence of Infiniti dealers time and again..

BG MOA (or also called product #111 nowadays) remedies this zinc deficiency in modern oils.

Also has some pretty good detergent additives so it's an excellent complement to MOBIL1 which is low both on zinc and detergents.

I currently run Valvoline Synpower 5w-40 as I can't easily get a 40 weight full PAO syn otherwise (the MOBIL1 40 weight is a 0w-40, which is too big a viscosity spread for my taste and also it's only sold st MB and Porsche dealers).

Another reason I run the ValvolineSynpower is I like the extra detergent vs MOBIL1 as the previous owner used non syn oils (= more sludge+varnish) which I have been gently cleaning out in various ways).
So I currently use it only every other oil change.

But If I had a low mile car running MOBIL 1 BG MOA it would be there at every oil change.

Either way I assure you, BG is not a scam, unlike Prolong, ZMAX. PTFE's, Slick 50 etc etc.

Fred...

Virus

iTrader: (1)

While I can accept your theory and agree that BG products are outstanding, I still feel synthetic oil alone will do just fine in keeping the engine clean. Amsoil has the largest of detergents in their oil, so why aren't you running Amsoil? From what I've read, Synpower is one of the lower quality synthetics.

GimmeTorq

Does anybody knows if these BG product line can be purchase in the internet anywhere?
Any information out there in the web?

iwannabmw

iTrader: (3)

Amsoil has always had an additive package that they thought was best for the engine. They don't bow down to the automakers in this case, which is one of the reasons behind the whole API certification fight. As an example, I ran Mobil 1 5W-30 for 8060 miles and Amsoil 5W-30 for 8008 miles. At the end, the Amsoil still had 53% more Zinc than the Mobil 1 did. If you can get that in an oil right out the bottle, who needs additives? BTW, I think the highest mileage car in the oil analysis study is approaching 200K and has had no problems with the catalytic converter, despite using Amsoil with it's "poisonus" additive levels.

palmerwmd

Synthetic oil from the beginning (!) will do just fine.
But I am not the first owner and the previous one used Castrol GTX , hence the need for some extra detergents.

Actually most (if not all) synthetics are lower on detergents than non-syns.
Of course reason is, they need less, cuz they cause less sludge (from decomposing base stock) and less varnish (from hydrocracked VI's).

I like the ValvolineSynpower quite a bit Valvoline is a great refiner (Ashland chemical) and it's a full PAO synthetic (unlike Castrol Syntec) and also its readily available as a 40 weight, which I prefer (even tho I have to drive across town to ge6t the 40 weight as it's not sold everywhere).


Fred...

PS: AMSOIL is a great oil, they make a full syn 10w-40 ,but I can't buy it in the local store and I have an aversion towards mailorder.

PS1

My 2000 Nissan is in the shop right now for carbon build up in the engine. It engine knocks real bad. Also has problems accelerating. This is the third time it has been in. The first time they had to replace the valve. They have cleaned the engine 7 times and still can't resolve the carbon problem. I have only used premium gas (BP)since I bought it new. Nissan is telling my tech that BP has a additive in their gas thats not good and to switch to shell or Exxon. So I did and one month later it is now back in the shop. Anyone else have this problem? I have 54,000 miles on it so far. Very frustrated with this situation.

Thanks for any help
Pam

palmerwmd

Does your dealer not carry BG44k?

If not find one that does.
Also in many states Infiniti dealers will carry it as well and of course they know how to do a throttle body cleaning on a 2000 Max (=I30).

Not all throttlw body cleanings are equal, when talking to the service advisor tell him you want the absolute most thourough one they can do, and make it clear to him, that you will gladly pay for the extra time that takes.

Since this is a bit non-standard at a lot of places,it won't hurt to slip both the tech and the service advisor a tip (don't insult them with a $1 bill, if they are good, they make 40-70k each)

BG44k is generally acknowledged to be the best throttle body cleaner out there.
Can also be used on fuel system (carefully as it's very concentrated).
Another good brand seems to be Wynns but I don't know of any that are better than B&G, anyway wynns might be too gentle in your case.

The active ingredient in Chevron Techron is the same as in BG44k except the active ingredient in the Chevron techron bottles is 5% or so and BG44k is 100% of that active ingredient.

As for gasoline the Chevron gas, has the techron additive, which is widely acknowledged as the best (even tho sometimes I wonder if the AMOCO one doesn't come close).


Good Luck,

Fred...

GimmeTorq

Darn, that's pretty bad! Have you had your ignition coils looked at? There is TSB for engine pinging due to bad coils... I wonder if the techs have not diagnosed your problem correctly.

palmerwmd

Good point, Gimme!

After 7 cleanings w/ a recurring problem even the most lackdaisical procedures should have had a noticable effect.
If the problem persists, other causes (tsb!) need to be considered.


Fred...


PS: My apologies to any techs present, double guessing the expert on the scene is something to be done with caution.

PS1

They looked at the coils first and determined that wasn't the problem. They have been talking with Nissan directly and haven't recieved much help. I was spoke to some one else who has the same Maxima I do with around the same mileage and she sain she has engine knocking too. Was thinking maybe it was a problem with the new engines in the 2000 models since first year out. Was trying to see if anyone else had the problem and what was done to fix it.
Thanks for your response.
Pam

TimW

iTrader: (6)

'looked' at coils? no.. they just see if the car does what you are describing and replace them. My understanding from the TSB is that they have no way to test them, just look for symptoms, replace...

Some dealers are VERY dodgy about doing the coils, but really most of the pinging issues are coil related.

Virus

iTrader: (1)

A BG flush will definately get rid of all of the carbon on the throttle body, hell everywhere it touches. My Dodge Stratus had a throttle body carbon problem. BG seemed to keep it cleaner much longer. No one ever figured the problem out at 2 different dealerships.

SamMan23

how do you use this BG 44k stuff? Just in the gas tank right? That will clean your throttle body?

Virus

iTrader: (1)

BG makes a product called BG44K that you can buy to put in your tank. The best thing to do if you have high mileage or carbon buildup is to take it to a place that does a BG fuel system flush. It will cost somewhere between $125-150. You will notice a difference if you use BG44k in your gas tank if you have hesitation problems or the symptoms of carbon buildup. I may lose all crediblity here, but the Duralube fuel system treatment does a great job as far as the cheaper stuff goes. My in laws tried numerous over the counter fuel system cleaners to stop their knocking and pinging on their old cars. Duralube was the only thing they used that actually stopped the knocking and pinging. However, they had to use 2 bottles which will cost you the same a BG44K which always does the job with 1 can.

palmerwmd

The BG fuel system flush is a good way to go.
And yes the BG44k can also be added to the fuel, nomoe than one can per tank though, rememeber guys this stuff is 20 times(!) as concentrated as ChevronTechron bottles.

Also like I posted earlier, there are different levels of services that may be called a throttle body clean.

Some just spray the cleaner into the intake.
Others partially disassemble the intake and then fog it ($90 dealer service)

The best throttlebody cleaning I have ever had was done at T3 automotive Atlanta (for Atlanta members: they only do Lexus/Infiniti to keep the techs sharp at those brands' models, but since the Max is mechanically almost identical to an I30/I35 I am sure they will make an exception).

They disassembled my intake and took off the plenum (1.5 real hrs) and then fogged, soaked and handbrushed the intake, throttle, plenum, and runnners(!).
Including an injector rail flush with BG the best $400 one can spend, on an engine that hasn't seen a throttle body cleaning in almost 2 and a half years.

Chunks (!) of carbon came out.

The results of my previous throttle body cleaning ($200, didn't remove plenum and skipped runners but still fogged and hand brushed) on another Q of mine 18 months ago were similiar.

It's been said, that a dirty throttle body can easily cause the loss of a couple dozen hp or more!

Something to think about, considering that many expensive mods (exhaust/intakes) add a LOT less to a car's power.

Fred...

BoosttotheMax

BG44k is the shiznit! Aside from Marvel Mystery Oil that I use for my oil twice a year, BG44k is the only other additive I would use for my Max. I first started using BG44k per recommendation of my best friend who is a ferrari, lambo, italian exotics technician in Jersey.

First used it on my MB and it made a big time impact right away. My MB sputtered at idle and that was my first time using BG44k. The rough idle stopped and the MB idled smoothly as if it rolled off factory assembly line. My MB mechanics cleaned the intake, manifolds, valvetrain with special BG chemicals and that also vastly improved performance, smoothness. Here's the skinny: use 91+ octane and change your fluids regularly, use BG44k annually and you're good to go. Avoid going to suspicious gas stations because tests have shown that the same octane gas at varying gas stations were dirtier in some places than others. IMO shell stations have some of the cleanest gases around.

On to the oil boys: Amsoil is great stuff but does that really justify the $7+ per quart. Availability is also problem, I would have to mail order that stuff and shipping costs can add up. IMO Mobil 1 is more than adequate but still a little bit pricey considering I change my oil four times a year so......I use Superflo Premium Gold or Valvoline Synpower because they are of the same quality as mobil 1 but cost much less.

iwannabmw

iTrader: (3)

Who gouges you for $7/qt. on it? Retail is supposed to be $5.70, less if you're an org member and you contact me. Yes, shipping can be a PITA, but if you plan ahead and order a case at a time, it can still be very cost effective. Depending on the mileage interval you use, it may be cheaper to use Mobil 1, but it's still very possible to save money using Amsoil.

PS1

I talked to my tech today ( who I trust alot, he's a good friend of mine), they used the BG and still had the problem. They just ordered a new program computer for the car and should get it in tomorrow. We will see how that works. I'm lucky! He hasn't charged me for all these cleanings. He did a BG induction (?) yesterday and didn't clear the problem. You have to excuse me, I am a female ( ha ha) and don't use much technical terms. My tech has been working on my cars for 12 years and knows how crabby I can get if it isn't fixed right. He is just as frustrated as I am about this problem.
Thanks for all your responses
Pam

Virus

iTrader: (1)

Mobil 1 supersyn costs around $5 a court. Amsoil through the people here won't cost you more than $1-$2 more than Mobil 1. I don't understand why people insist that it's expensive.

iwannabmw

iTrader: (3)

More FYI for people. Wholesale pricing on Amsoil is in the $4 range. Even after shipping, you per quart cost is in the vicinty of $5 depending on the quantities you buy. How is this way more expensive than Mobil 1?? Now Redline, that's expensive.

palmerwmd

Somebody educate me if I'm wrong:

Last time I checked ('bout 2 years ago), there were two tiers of AMSOIL full synthetic motor oils:

AMSOIL synthetic and a super premium AMSOIL system 2000.

Both were full syn PAO motor oils.

The AMSOIL syn was around 5.$ or so and the "system 2000" was 8 dollars per quart.
( all prices retail).

I believe this two trier pricing may be the source of the pricing confusion here?

As for MOBIL which has just become a bit more expensive ( bout $5+ for supersyn, but the trisyn is still available depending on your state between $3.50 and $4.50 )

There is an AMSOIL distributor in town I might drive there, once I have gone thru my 3 cases of Valvoline Synpower 5w-40 (also a full PAO syn which cost about the same here as MOBIL1 tri-syn but less than MOBIL1supersyn).

Speaking of oils one gentleman mentioned Exxon Superflow gold synthetic.
Thats not a bad choice, as the specs are almost indistiungishable from MOBI1 tri syn at 2/3rds the cost.
If it was available in a 40 weight I would probably run that (I don't like their 5w-50, as its too big a viscosity stretch and I suspect it might varnish heavily cuz of that, and the 30 weight oil is too thin for either the season or my driving habits)


Fred...

iwannabmw

iTrader: (3)

Here's Amsoil's current line:

There's the XL-7500 series, geared towards the quick lube crowd, that is now a Group III basestock. Retail on it is $5.05/qt.

The 5W-30, 10W-30 and 10W-40 full synthetic oils, with PAO's, are $5.70 retail.

The Series 2000 0W-30 and 20W-50 full synthetic, also PAO's, are $8.10 retail.

For members on the org who contact me, these prices can be reduced by 15-20%. Email me for specifics.

super32

iTrader: (5)

if anyone is still trying to find BG distributors, you usually cannot buy BG products in a Kragen/Schuck's or Autozone. You have to call your local distributor.

go to www.bgprod.com and look at the very bottom for a like "locate distributors" or something, and then just follow on.

You might have to call around however. It took a while to find 1 dealer that carried BG... it was weird... the dealer/parts dept. weren't really sure about what BG was... scary man.

good hunting.

GimmeTorq

Sorry to bring this thread back to life but I found several places that sell BG 44K online.

Extreme Motor Sports is a Mitsu only aftermarket store but they have BG 44K for $15 a can.

Ryno Performance Prods have BG 44G and other BG products available.

Just ordered couple cans of BG 44K from Extreme MS.

Later

Virus

iTrader: (1)

I get it for $13 from a coworker. Sometimes free. This is just a little heads up about something that disturbes me a great deal. Make sure you go to a place that you trust. My coworker used to work at a car dealership. He stated that many place will charge you for BG and never put it in the engine. There's many other services that they rip you off with as well. That's one reason that I'm starting to learn more about doing things myself.

koostermax

got membership at COSTCO?

They got the mobil 1 supersyn and tri-syn for $21.99 per case of 6. That equates to roughly $3.67 a quart... this is the cheapest in town for this stuff. I've used the tri-syn 5W-30 for first 2 oil changes until the supersyn came out. Used the supersyn for the 3rd oil change.

would it be better to use chevron or shell?

i've mostly use shell, and on occasion chevron if i can't find shell.

super32

iTrader: (5)

Where were you about $100 ago????

With that I bought 3 cans of regular BG44K (the non-advanced) for about $24 bucks each, then 2 cans of other fuel cleaners for about $12 a can...

all my money... gone... just poof.. gone..

NikaL

They also carry
BG's MOA is a specially formulated oil additive that is designed to prevent oxidation and thickening of your motors most vital component - it's oil. Helps prevent the formation of sludge and varnish deposits in the engine. BG MOA also contains unique extreme pressure ingredients which have the effect of smoothing and sealing moving parts under frictional conditions. This additive helps extend engine life and improve power and performance. We recommend this product for all high performance engines due to the engines needs related to increased demand from extreme conditions. Use one can per oil change.

and

Redline SI-1 Injector Cleaner
Add one can of this to your gas tank to remove gunk and deposits from your fuel tank and injectors. Use one bottle per 20 gallons of fuel. After the initial cleaning, use one bottle per 100 gallons.

any thoughts on these?

iwannabmw

iTrader: (3)

On the BG MOA, if you use a high quality synthetic motor oil this product is redundant.

bill99gxe

iTrader: (1)

Or any motor oil additives for that matter.




It's interesting. People will pay whatever price for an "additive", but on a proven product like Amsoil that lists for $5/quart (that's right folks, about 30 cents more per quart. than Mobil 1 and much better for going extended drains), that's too much to spend on oil.



It baffles me.

iwannabmw

iTrader: (3)

I gave up a while ago trying to understand the thought processes of some people. It made my head hurt - insert head banging graphic here.

bill99gxe

iTrader: (1)

Oil additives:

johnny2kgle

I have used the Redline Fuel System Cleaner (got it at Pep Boys) for a few years. It is only one of two products (WaterWetter is the other) that is sold mass market. It is a good product and one of the few gas cleaners that I will use (Techron is the other).

Use the Redline product every 3,000 to 5,000 miles for best results. Their products are of the highest quality. The one per 100 gallons is what some fleet users do.