Supercharger install was a bust, now Im stuck!
09-21-2002, 08:58 PM
#1
Supercharger install was a bust, now Im stuck!
Well UMD_MaxSE (Nauman) and my brother were doing the install today and ran into a RACK of freagin issues. This S/C fit in there SOOOOOOOO tight that it leaves no room to do anything, barely get a wrench in there to tighten bolts.
Well to start off, it took a while to get the allen bolts off the s/c plate to get it off to put the belt on, and we BENT two allen wrenches cause the **** who had them last probably used an impact wrench on it.
Then we ran into major issues of it sitting right, getting the alternator bolt on there, the bolts for the idler pulley is a pain, and on the top of the idler pulley bracket assembly, is a flat head allen that we COULD NOT get in. So I gave up, and then tried to tighten the belt on the s/c and looks like we F'ed up the tensioner assembly, so I got to get that from the dealer now.
I mean crap, to take this S/C off, I did not realize you need to remove all the freagin bolts that it attaches to, we talking about even the alternator bolts, bolts BEHIND the idler pulley. Crap, there aint even room to get a open end wrench there and your room is like 1/8 turn of the wrench at a time if that. Then the damn fuse box is always in the way, so we just removed it out the way until we got the s/c installed.
Almost makes me want to give up and put the car back to normal and sell this bastard. We were working OUTSIDE in the sun from 9am to about 6pm before we had to throw in the towel.
Now Im out of a car for at least till Monday. Plus my Apartment manager told me I cant work on the car outside, so got no clue how to finish the job when I cant even start the car to move it to another location.
Nauman was a great help, I owe my thanks to him even though we aint finish.
Son of a......... Im sooo ****ed right now. Tell me why I should NOT throw in the towel? If the s/c remove and install is always going to be this freagin hard, I dont know about it.
Dixit
Well to start off, it took a while to get the allen bolts off the s/c plate to get it off to put the belt on, and we BENT two allen wrenches cause the **** who had them last probably used an impact wrench on it.
Then we ran into major issues of it sitting right, getting the alternator bolt on there, the bolts for the idler pulley is a pain, and on the top of the idler pulley bracket assembly, is a flat head allen that we COULD NOT get in. So I gave up, and then tried to tighten the belt on the s/c and looks like we F'ed up the tensioner assembly, so I got to get that from the dealer now.
I mean crap, to take this S/C off, I did not realize you need to remove all the freagin bolts that it attaches to, we talking about even the alternator bolts, bolts BEHIND the idler pulley. Crap, there aint even room to get a open end wrench there and your room is like 1/8 turn of the wrench at a time if that. Then the damn fuse box is always in the way, so we just removed it out the way until we got the s/c installed.
Almost makes me want to give up and put the car back to normal and sell this bastard. We were working OUTSIDE in the sun from 9am to about 6pm before we had to throw in the towel.
Now Im out of a car for at least till Monday. Plus my Apartment manager told me I cant work on the car outside, so got no clue how to finish the job when I cant even start the car to move it to another location.
Nauman was a great help, I owe my thanks to him even though we aint finish.
Son of a......... Im sooo ****ed right now. Tell me why I should NOT throw in the towel? If the s/c remove and install is always going to be this freagin hard, I dont know about it.
Dixit
09-21-2002, 09:21 PM
#3
Tomorrow is a new day. I had two horrendously stripped cat bolts that I almost threw in the towel on and paid to have removed. I slept on it, brainstormed, and got them off in two hours today. I am so god damned proud of myself. And you will be too when you get the SC on. Plus you'll have a $hitload more horsepower too......
Stick with it dog. Seriously. You will hate yourself forever if you give up on it. Kinda like the way I hate myself for telling that girl when I was 16 that I was "saving myself for marriage". She now has a full time modeling career. And I have no life.
Stick with it dog. Seriously. You will hate yourself forever if you give up on it. Kinda like the way I hate myself for telling that girl when I was 16 that I was "saving myself for marriage". She now has a full time modeling career. And I have no life.
09-21-2002, 09:55 PM
#4
Sucks, huh? 
Nah, I feel your pain. After removing/installing the SC MANY times, you'll get used to it.
Good luck and let me know if you need any advice.
BTW, the easiest way to get the 10mm bolt in is to have someone hold the bolt from up top while the person under the car does the tightening. Pull off the power steering reservoir and move the fuse box into its location so you'll have room.
Nah, I feel your pain. After removing/installing the SC MANY times, you'll get used to it.
Good luck and let me know if you need any advice.
BTW, the easiest way to get the 10mm bolt in is to have someone hold the bolt from up top while the person under the car does the tightening. Pull off the power steering reservoir and move the fuse box into its location so you'll have room.
09-21-2002, 10:12 PM
#5
Guest
Posts: n/a
Big Dog don't give up. We all know that the SC is not an easy install, some of us better than others. All I am saying is that modding is almost never perfect, It took me 4hrs to install my levco shifter today (long don't ask). When I finally got done I was like sweet another mod, and thats how we all are. U know it can be done u just have to stick with it, and look what the outcome will be.
Good luck and we want updates when u are done.
Good luck and we want updates when u are done.
09-21-2002, 10:41 PM
#9
Supporting Maxima.org Member
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,275
Stick with it man...
Stick with it Dixit,
Retrace your steps, think about all the areas you had trouble and how you can do the job easier next time. It took a week to install my SC for the 1st time! You guys will get it, just be patient, do a little at a time and make sure everything is done correctly. Just take it a step at a time DONT GET FRUSTRATED, be patient. I hope you guys didnt think you'd get it done right away... its a process and alot of work to do ESPECIALLY when doing it for the 1st time, coverting from stock to an SC setup ... alot of moving stuff around/NO JOKE. Good Luck man... find a nice place to work on it and take your time. Keep us posted.
Deac
Retrace your steps, think about all the areas you had trouble and how you can do the job easier next time. It took a week to install my SC for the 1st time! You guys will get it, just be patient, do a little at a time and make sure everything is done correctly. Just take it a step at a time DONT GET FRUSTRATED, be patient. I hope you guys didnt think you'd get it done right away... its a process and alot of work to do ESPECIALLY when doing it for the 1st time, coverting from stock to an SC setup ... alot of moving stuff around/NO JOKE. Good Luck man... find a nice place to work on it and take your time. Keep us posted.
Deac
09-21-2002, 10:56 PM
#10
Re: Supercharger install was a bust, now Im stuck!
Hehe it's all part of the fun We forgot to tighten one of the alternator bolts and I ended up losing it in a parking lot a few days later... at first I panicked when I heard the pinging of it in the plate cover and when it fell out and I picked up a searing hot bolt ... "oh ****.. did that just come out of my engine? aaaaargh!!!!"
Took from 7pm-5:30am day one and then 3:30pm-11pm day two... so that will give you an idea of how long it takes others
We forgot to tighten one of the alternator bolts and I ended up losing it in a parking lot a few days later... at first I panicked when I heard the pinging of it in the plate cover and when it fell out and I picked up a searing hot bolt ... "oh ****.. did that just come out of my engine? aaaaargh!!!!" Took from 7pm-5:30am day one and then 3:30pm-11pm day two... so that will give you an idea of how long it takes others
Originally posted by BigDogJonx
Well UMD_MaxSE (Nauman) and my brother were doing the install today and ran into a RACK of freagin issues. This S/C fit in there SOOOOOOOO tight that it leaves no room to do anything, barely get a wrench in there to tighten bolts.
Well to start off, it took a while to get the allen bolts off the s/c plate to get it off to put the belt on, and we BENT two allen wrenches cause the **** who had them last probably used an impact wrench on it.
Then we ran into major issues of it sitting right, getting the alternator bolt on there, the bolts for the idler pulley is a pain, and on the top of the idler pulley bracket assembly, is a flat head allen that we COULD NOT get in. So I gave up, and then tried to tighten the belt on the s/c and looks like we F'ed up the tensioner assembly, so I got to get that from the dealer now.
I mean crap, to take this S/C off, I did not realize you need to remove all the freagin bolts that it attaches to, we talking about even the alternator bolts, bolts BEHIND the idler pulley. Crap, there aint even room to get a open end wrench there and your room is like 1/8 turn of the wrench at a time if that. Then the damn fuse box is always in the way, so we just removed it out the way until we got the s/c installed.
Almost makes me want to give up and put the car back to normal and sell this bastard. We were working OUTSIDE in the sun from 9am to about 6pm before we had to throw in the towel.
Now Im out of a car for at least till Monday. Plus my Apartment manager told me I cant work on the car outside, so got no clue how to finish the job when I cant even start the car to move it to another location.
Nauman was a great help, I owe my thanks to him even though we aint finish.
Son of a......... Im sooo ****ed right now. Tell me why I should NOT throw in the towel? If the s/c remove and install is always going to be this freagin hard, I dont know about it.
Dixit
Well UMD_MaxSE (Nauman) and my brother were doing the install today and ran into a RACK of freagin issues. This S/C fit in there SOOOOOOOO tight that it leaves no room to do anything, barely get a wrench in there to tighten bolts.
Well to start off, it took a while to get the allen bolts off the s/c plate to get it off to put the belt on, and we BENT two allen wrenches cause the **** who had them last probably used an impact wrench on it.
Then we ran into major issues of it sitting right, getting the alternator bolt on there, the bolts for the idler pulley is a pain, and on the top of the idler pulley bracket assembly, is a flat head allen that we COULD NOT get in. So I gave up, and then tried to tighten the belt on the s/c and looks like we F'ed up the tensioner assembly, so I got to get that from the dealer now.
I mean crap, to take this S/C off, I did not realize you need to remove all the freagin bolts that it attaches to, we talking about even the alternator bolts, bolts BEHIND the idler pulley. Crap, there aint even room to get a open end wrench there and your room is like 1/8 turn of the wrench at a time if that. Then the damn fuse box is always in the way, so we just removed it out the way until we got the s/c installed.
Almost makes me want to give up and put the car back to normal and sell this bastard. We were working OUTSIDE in the sun from 9am to about 6pm before we had to throw in the towel.
Now Im out of a car for at least till Monday. Plus my Apartment manager told me I cant work on the car outside, so got no clue how to finish the job when I cant even start the car to move it to another location.
Nauman was a great help, I owe my thanks to him even though we aint finish.
Son of a......... Im sooo ****ed right now. Tell me why I should NOT throw in the towel? If the s/c remove and install is always going to be this freagin hard, I dont know about it.
Dixit
09-21-2002, 11:09 PM
#12
I will stay on it, but just need ideas of how people did certain things, like put the oil drain back hose on the drain back plate. I cant get my hand up there that easily. On top of that, how the heck do you tighten the hose clamp? No way, I might change that one to a spring loaded hose clamp.
Kev, you say to move the fuse box to the power steering resevior location, well, where do I put that resevior and then my other question is the wires will not reach that far. Or were you just saying that to help temporarily to easy the install.
Now you 100% for sure need an impact wrench to take the pulley off right?
Im still wondering how to get that top flat allen screw into the idler pulley bracket assembly. That screw just will not go in, it goes in at an angle and does not go in, so we loosed all the others to see if we could move the s/c itself a bit, it aint moving for shiet. What you think ?
Damn I need a house with a garage.
Dixit
Kev, you say to move the fuse box to the power steering resevior location, well, where do I put that resevior and then my other question is the wires will not reach that far. Or were you just saying that to help temporarily to easy the install.
Now you 100% for sure need an impact wrench to take the pulley off right?
Im still wondering how to get that top flat allen screw into the idler pulley bracket assembly. That screw just will not go in, it goes in at an angle and does not go in, so we loosed all the others to see if we could move the s/c itself a bit, it aint moving for shiet. What you think ?
Damn I need a house with a garage.
Dixit
09-22-2002, 07:17 AM
#14
hehehe.... we can't give up man... I won't let you If the sun wasn't beating down on us it probably wouldn't have been half as bad. Once you get a new tensioner, there isn't a whole lot left to do under the car at all. The whole SC assembly was a tight fit, but once the fuse box was out of the way, it did line up ok. Moving the PS reservoir would also help a lot though. So far we have spent about 8 hours total on the install... Judging by the responses here on the time it took people, I think we are doing ok
If the sun wasn't beating down on us it probably wouldn't have been half as bad. Once you get a new tensioner, there isn't a whole lot left to do under the car at all. The whole SC assembly was a tight fit, but once the fuse box was out of the way, it did line up ok. Moving the PS reservoir would also help a lot though. So far we have spent about 8 hours total on the install... Judging by the responses here on the time it took people, I think we are doing ok
09-22-2002, 07:24 AM
#15
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 113
Your effort will pay off!!!
Stick to it big dog, it will all come togther in the end. We all have our mod nightmares but when it was all said and done we were glad we decided to do it. Any problems just ask Kev he's the man on SC off and on and off and on problems. Now with that said can anyone tell me does the 01 SC fit the 02 se auto's??? HM???
09-22-2002, 07:28 AM
#16
Re: Your effort will pay off!!!
Originally posted by Chaser
Now with that said can anyone tell me does the 01 SC fit the 02 se auto's??? HM???
Now with that said can anyone tell me does the 01 SC fit the 02 se auto's??? HM???
no.... not enough room. The SC is a tight fit on the 3.0 engines... it would be pretty much impossible on the 3.5....
09-22-2002, 09:35 AM
#18
Originally posted by CO2kmax
Big Dog don't give up. We all know that the SC is not an easy install, some of us better than others. All I am saying is that modding is almost never perfect, It took me 4hrs to install my levco shifter today (long don't ask). When I finally got done I was like sweet another mod, and thats how we all are. U know it can be done u just have to stick with it, and look what the outcome will be.:-D Good luck and we want updates when u are done.
Big Dog don't give up. We all know that the SC is not an easy install, some of us better than others. All I am saying is that modding is almost never perfect, It took me 4hrs to install my levco shifter today (long don't ask). When I finally got done I was like sweet another mod, and thats how we all are. U know it can be done u just have to stick with it, and look what the outcome will be.:-D Good luck and we want updates when u are done.
A part of my slow car is in your car. Hehehe
Originally posted by BigDogJonx
I will stay on it, but just need ideas of how people did certain things, like put the oil drain back hose on the drain back plate. I cant get my hand up there that easily. On top of that, how the heck do you tighten the hose clamp? No way, I might change that one to a spring loaded hose clamp.
I will stay on it, but just need ideas of how people did certain things, like put the oil drain back hose on the drain back plate. I cant get my hand up there that easily. On top of that, how the heck do you tighten the hose clamp? No way, I might change that one to a spring loaded hose clamp.
Originally posted by BigDogJonx
Kev, you say to move the fuse box to the power steering resevior location, well, where do I put that resevior and then my other question is the wires will not reach that far. Or were you just saying that to help temporarily to easy the install.
Kev, you say to move the fuse box to the power steering resevior location, well, where do I put that resevior and then my other question is the wires will not reach that far. Or were you just saying that to help temporarily to easy the install.
Originally posted by BigDogJonx
Now you 100% for sure need an impact wrench to take the pulley off right?
Now you 100% for sure need an impact wrench to take the pulley off right?
Originally posted by BigDogJonx
Im still wondering how to get that top flat allen screw into the idler pulley bracket assembly. That screw just will not go in, it goes in at an angle and does not go in, so we loosed all the others to see if we could move the s/c itself a bit, it aint moving for shiet. What you think ?
Damn I need a house with a garage.
Dixit
Im still wondering how to get that top flat allen screw into the idler pulley bracket assembly. That screw just will not go in, it goes in at an angle and does not go in, so we loosed all the others to see if we could move the s/c itself a bit, it aint moving for shiet. What you think ?
Damn I need a house with a garage.
Dixit
09-22-2002, 02:29 PM
#19
Thanks for all the replies and Nauman for still not making me give up.
Well, Kev and Nauman, I got a feeling we will have to move the Power Steering lines out the way. Was looking and it is pinching down on the oil drain back hose. So looks like the SC might have to come up and out one more time. Those captive bolts just kill me. Then the alternator one. Then the Idler pulley one. Freagin hell.
This probably still another two days away. Gonna have to get this towed to my friend's place and perform the surgery from there.
Dixit
Well, Kev and Nauman, I got a feeling we will have to move the Power Steering lines out the way. Was looking and it is pinching down on the oil drain back hose. So looks like the SC might have to come up and out one more time. Those captive bolts just kill me. Then the alternator one. Then the Idler pulley one. Freagin hell.
This probably still another two days away. Gonna have to get this towed to my friend's place and perform the surgery from there.
Dixit
09-22-2002, 02:44 PM
#20
Originally posted by BigDogJonx
Thanks for all the replies and Nauman for still not making me give up.
Well, Kev and Nauman, I got a feeling we will have to move the Power Steering lines out the way. Was looking and it is pinching down on the oil drain back hose. So looks like the SC might have to come up and out one more time. Those captive bolts just kill me. Then the alternator one. Then the Idler pulley one. Freagin hell.
This probably still another two days away. Gonna have to get this towed to my friend's place and perform the surgery from there.
Dixit
Thanks for all the replies and Nauman for still not making me give up.
Well, Kev and Nauman, I got a feeling we will have to move the Power Steering lines out the way. Was looking and it is pinching down on the oil drain back hose. So looks like the SC might have to come up and out one more time. Those captive bolts just kill me. Then the alternator one. Then the Idler pulley one. Freagin hell.
This probably still another two days away. Gonna have to get this towed to my friend's place and perform the surgery from there.
Dixit
09-22-2002, 03:38 PM
#22
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Stick with it man...
Told you it was gonna be a long tough process man. LOL see what you said about having it done in 1 day didn't happen. Listen to others that have experience doing it before thinking that next time! Anyways, keep on, you will get it. It's a tough process.
Listen to others that have experience doing it before thinking that next time! Anyways, keep on, you will get it. It's a tough process.
09-22-2002, 03:55 PM
#23
Originally posted by UMD_MaxSE
The PS lines can be squished out of the way, but like you said, the drainback hose is real tight. If we had some more slack on it, then maybe it would not be pinched. It's all good though, we ended up removing the SC bracket three times already, so a 4th time won't be so bad... Where you getting this thing towed to? It's probably going to take a day or two to get the Idler pulley tensioner anyways....
The PS lines can be squished out of the way, but like you said, the drainback hose is real tight. If we had some more slack on it, then maybe it would not be pinched. It's all good though, we ended up removing the SC bracket three times already, so a 4th time won't be so bad... Where you getting this thing towed to? It's probably going to take a day or two to get the Idler pulley tensioner anyways....
I dont want to cut that lower tube on the PRcai since I was just going to sell it off.
Dixit
09-22-2002, 04:24 PM
#24
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 476
Originally posted by BigDogJonx
Dont know where yet, but I was thinking at my coworker's place out in SpringField. But this coming weekend is bad cause I am out of town on business.
I dont want to cut that lower tube on the PRcai since I was just going to sell it off.
Dixit
Dont know where yet, but I was thinking at my coworker's place out in SpringField. But this coming weekend is bad cause I am out of town on business.
I dont want to cut that lower tube on the PRcai since I was just going to sell it off.
Dixit
You shoulda let me know you were doing that this weekend. I could have at least bought you a cool drink.
Anyway, Springfield is a long way from Silver Spring. Try a public garage or push it across the street to the autopark. You're nuts trying to do this in a apartment complex.
09-22-2002, 05:59 PM
#25
Supporting Maxima.org Member
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,489
Dix - Just take it out, and get it drive-able. We will make the next attempt from my house. Shade, private, and if it dont work it can sit in the garage till it's done.
We can rally up the posse at my place and everyone use their wits about it.
We can rally up the posse at my place and everyone use their wits about it.
09-22-2002, 06:00 PM
#26
Originally posted by BigDogJonx
Thanks for all the replies and Nauman for still not making me give up.
Well, Kev and Nauman, I got a feeling we will have to move the Power Steering lines out the way. Was looking and it is pinching down on the oil drain back hose. So looks like the SC might have to come up and out one more time. Those captive bolts just kill me. Then the alternator one. Then the Idler pulley one. Freagin hell.
This probably still another two days away. Gonna have to get this towed to my friend's place and perform the surgery from there.
Dixit
Thanks for all the replies and Nauman for still not making me give up.
Well, Kev and Nauman, I got a feeling we will have to move the Power Steering lines out the way. Was looking and it is pinching down on the oil drain back hose. So looks like the SC might have to come up and out one more time. Those captive bolts just kill me. Then the alternator one. Then the Idler pulley one. Freagin hell.
This probably still another two days away. Gonna have to get this towed to my friend's place and perform the surgery from there.
Dixit
09-22-2002, 06:08 PM
#27
Originally posted by Y2KevSE
You swapped the aluminum PS hoses to rubber PS hoses, right? What you can do is route the PS lines through the "CAI hole" and towards the front. Up to you...
You swapped the aluminum PS hoses to rubber PS hoses, right? What you can do is route the PS lines through the "CAI hole" and towards the front. Up to you...
09-22-2002, 06:18 PM
#28
Originally posted by UMD_MaxSE
the kit didn't come with the extra rubber PS lines so we just detatched the aluminum lines from the body of the car and moved them to where they fit under the SC. That's why the drain back hose is getting caught up and pinched a little bit. I think we are going to need those rubber PS lines to get more clearance for the drain back hose...
the kit didn't come with the extra rubber PS lines so we just detatched the aluminum lines from the body of the car and moved them to where they fit under the SC. That's why the drain back hose is getting caught up and pinched a little bit. I think we are going to need those rubber PS lines to get more clearance for the drain back hose...
NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Can't do that. You guys have to replace the aluminum hoses with rubber ones. Just go to Pepboys or Kragen to get the hoses.
09-22-2002, 06:25 PM
#29
Originally posted by Y2KevSE
NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Can't do that. You guys have to replace the aluminum hoses with rubber ones. Just go to Pepboys or Kragen to get the hoses.
NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Can't do that. You guys have to replace the aluminum hoses with rubber ones. Just go to Pepboys or Kragen to get the hoses.
09-22-2002, 09:41 PM
#30
Yea we were "cowboy'in" this install like it was nobody's business. Rob, I will try to make it driveable, but first I need to find out what needs to happen to get this part.
We will talk tommorow at work.
Dixit
We will talk tommorow at work.
Dixit
09-22-2002, 11:49 PM
#32
![[maxi-overdose]'s Avatar](https://maxima.org/forums/customavatars/avatar1856_1.gif){kind=avatar}
this is what I would do, Dixit.....I would rent a car for a few day and take time to work on the SC install. About ur apt manager's complaint, I would get a tow truck and bring it to ur friend's place. U have gone this far and I wouldnt go back if I were u. I understand your situation...but I would be extra careful on the install.
I will share my story in a few weeks... and hope there will be 2 more SCed Maxima in the end of this year.
I will share my story in a few weeks...
and hope there will be 2 more SCed Maxima in the end of this year.
09-23-2002, 06:42 AM
#33
Originally posted by [maxi-overdose]
this is what I would do, Dixit.....I would rent a car for a few day and take time to work on the SC install. About ur apt manager's complaint, I would get a tow truck and bring it to ur friend's place. U have gone this far and I wouldnt go back if I were u. I understand your situation...but I would be extra careful on the install.
I will share my story in a few weeks... and hope there will be 2 more SCed Maxima in the end of this year.
this is what I would do, Dixit.....I would rent a car for a few day and take time to work on the SC install. About ur apt manager's complaint, I would get a tow truck and bring it to ur friend's place. U have gone this far and I wouldnt go back if I were u. I understand your situation...but I would be extra careful on the install.
I will share my story in a few weeks...
and hope there will be 2 more SCed Maxima in the end of this year.
09-23-2002, 08:06 AM
#36
Originally posted by Y2KevSE
The piece from the dealer is $51 from DaveB, but get this, it is the whole assembly including the pulley and bracket that I DONT need. Damn. Might have to get it locally since DaveB will take 2days and shipping and everything might be the same price.
Dixit
09-23-2002, 08:09 AM
#37
Originally posted by BigDogJonx
That belt tensioner piece that you move over to the new stillen bracket, that thing is messed up for those of you who dont know.
The piece from the dealer is $51 from DaveB, but get this, it is the whole assembly including the pulley and bracket that I DONT need. Damn. Might have to get it locally since DaveB will take 2days and shipping and everything might be the same price.
Dixit
That belt tensioner piece that you move over to the new stillen bracket, that thing is messed up for those of you who dont know.
The piece from the dealer is $51 from DaveB, but get this, it is the whole assembly including the pulley and bracket that I DONT need. Damn. Might have to get it locally since DaveB will take 2days and shipping and everything might be the same price.
Dixit
I know what you're talking about. I paid $60.