5 speed vs. 6 speed
Maxima Pilot
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,467
From: Beaverton, Oregon
If I remember correctly, I said a) 5-speed at
3000 RPMs would equate to a 6-speed at 2400 and b)my 5-speed does 74 MPH at 3000 RPMs...
...guess what this table shows? that a six-speed at 75 mph is doing 2400 RPMs.
Ahh...it's nice to be right....
BTW, on the issue of a six-speed being slower than a five-speed on a top-gear only acceleration run..I checked Car & Driver's old road test of the 2000 3 liter 5-speed and it shows a 50-70 top gear run acceleration time of 9.2 seconds. Unfortunately, neither C&D nor R&T have done this test for the 3.5 liter cars so let's have a 2002 or newer 6-speed owner do the same and post results.
...guess what this table shows? that a six-speed at 75 mph is doing 2400 RPMs.
Ahh...it's nice to be right....
BTW, on the issue of a six-speed being slower than a five-speed on a top-gear only acceleration run..I checked Car & Driver's old road test of the 2000 3 liter 5-speed and it shows a 50-70 top gear run acceleration time of 9.2 seconds. Unfortunately, neither C&D nor R&T have done this test for the 3.5 liter cars so let's have a 2002 or newer 6-speed owner do the same and post results.
I GOT ONE RIGHT!!!
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 412
Re: If I remember correctly, I said a) 5-speed at
Originally posted by Galo
3000 RPMs would equate to a 6-speed at 2400 and b)my 5-speed does 74 MPH at 3000 RPMs...
...guess what this table shows? that a six-speed at 75 mph is doing 2400 RPMs.
Ahh...it's nice to be right....
BTW, on the issue of a six-speed being slower than a five-speed on a top-gear only acceleration run..I checked Car & Driver's old road test of the 2000 3 liter 5-speed and it shows a 50-70 top gear run acceleration time of 9.2 seconds. Unfortunately, neither C&D nor R&T have done this test for the 3.5 liter cars so let's have a 2002 or newer 6-speed owner do the same and post results.
3000 RPMs would equate to a 6-speed at 2400 and b)my 5-speed does 74 MPH at 3000 RPMs...
...guess what this table shows? that a six-speed at 75 mph is doing 2400 RPMs.
Ahh...it's nice to be right....
BTW, on the issue of a six-speed being slower than a five-speed on a top-gear only acceleration run..I checked Car & Driver's old road test of the 2000 3 liter 5-speed and it shows a 50-70 top gear run acceleration time of 9.2 seconds. Unfortunately, neither C&D nor R&T have done this test for the 3.5 liter cars so let's have a 2002 or newer 6-speed owner do the same and post results.
Edit:
Also, Can someone make another table like that for the 5sp? I don't have an ESM with the ratios.
Maxima Pilot
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,467
From: Beaverton, Oregon
Yes, ezzzactly. And I'll do the same on
my car as well.
Thinking back at how my car seems to pull in top gear, that time of 9.2 secs seems slow, moreso when the same C&D article shows the 30-50 time in top gear to be 8.9 secs! I find it hard to believe that covering the same 20 mph range while starting out the acceleration runs at a lower RPMs (@30 in lieu of @50) would make the 30-50 time SLOWER than the 50-70 time but...that's not what the road test says.
Bottom line, I'll do the same tonight & will post results as well..I have a nice back road I can do this on..
Thinking back at how my car seems to pull in top gear, that time of 9.2 secs seems slow, moreso when the same C&D article shows the 30-50 time in top gear to be 8.9 secs! I find it hard to believe that covering the same 20 mph range while starting out the acceleration runs at a lower RPMs (@30 in lieu of @50) would make the 30-50 time SLOWER than the 50-70 time but...that's not what the road test says.
Bottom line, I'll do the same tonight & will post results as well..I have a nice back road I can do this on..
Re: Yes, ezzzactly. And I'll do the same on
Originally posted by Galo
my car as well.
Thinking back at how my car seems to pull in top gear, that time of 9.2 secs seems slow, moreso when the same C&D article shows the 30-50 time in top gear to be 8.9 secs! I find it hard to believe...
my car as well.
Thinking back at how my car seems to pull in top gear, that time of 9.2 secs seems slow, moreso when the same C&D article shows the 30-50 time in top gear to be 8.9 secs! I find it hard to believe...
Re: Re: Re: My $.02
What I'm trying to say is that, in the 5 speed tranny, like most 5 speed trannys, you can't go into reverse unless you force it, from any gear. The lockout is automatic, and I think, better. That collar on the 6 speed is a minor inconvenience. Not enough to make me decide whether I want the car or not. I just like the old system better.
The way I learned this about the 5 speed is from my first 5 speed car. I used to always carefully downshift from 5 to 4, taking extra care to try to not hit reverse. Somehow, because of the way I was shifting carefully, there was always a bit of grinding on the downshift. Then one day I was told that the gearbox protects itself. All I do is pull the shift lever back and it will just go into 4. Ever since then, my downshifts have been smooth as anything
DW
The way I learned this about the 5 speed is from my first 5 speed car. I used to always carefully downshift from 5 to 4, taking extra care to try to not hit reverse. Somehow, because of the way I was shifting carefully, there was always a bit of grinding on the downshift. Then one day I was told that the gearbox protects itself. All I do is pull the shift lever back and it will just go into 4. Ever since then, my downshifts have been smooth as anything
DW
Originally posted by ajahearn
I realize the 5speed has a lock out. With the 5 though you could still go to reverse for other gears. With the 6 you have to pull up on the collar to get into reverse (from any gear).
I realize the 5speed has a lock out. With the 5 though you could still go to reverse for other gears. With the 6 you have to pull up on the collar to get into reverse (from any gear).
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 412
Ok, so I made it home.
50-70 in my 2k2 6spd is about 8-9 seconds. Actually it's a strange test, because rarely am I accelerating in 6th around 50 mph.
...and if you're wondering 3000 rpm in 6th is good for at least 94 mph on the speedo.
50-70 in my 2k2 6spd is about 8-9 seconds. Actually it's a strange test, because rarely am I accelerating in 6th around 50 mph.
...and if you're wondering 3000 rpm in 6th is good for at least 94 mph on the speedo.
Maxima Pilot
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,467
From: Beaverton, Oregon
Okay...I'm home...two 50-70 runs in 5th
gear..both just under nine seconds....say 8.6...nearly the same as your runs, bottom line -as I thought- the taller gearing on the six-speeds offsets the greater power/torque of the 3.5 liter -but only in top gear, of course.
Originally posted by CCS2k1Max
So excluding all other factors and just looking at rpms, which would you prefer, your engine running at 2500 or 3000 rpm at the same speed?
Galo, you make several good points, especially the linkage differences. I wasn't aware the 6 sp was cable. Knowing that and the fact that the top gearing is about the same for both, I'm sticking with the 5 sp.
So excluding all other factors and just looking at rpms, which would you prefer, your engine running at 2500 or 3000 rpm at the same speed?
Galo, you make several good points, especially the linkage differences. I wasn't aware the 6 sp was cable. Knowing that and the fact that the top gearing is about the same for both, I'm sticking with the 5 sp.
By the way I wonder what kind of acceleration numbers the 2K2 would have with the same gearing from 1-5 as on the 2K1?
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 269
Re: Re: My $.02
Originally posted by dwapenyi
The 5 speeds automatically lock you out of reverse. If you downshift from 5 to 4, just pull the gearshift back. The gearbox will just naturally go into 4th gear.
DW
The 5 speeds automatically lock you out of reverse. If you downshift from 5 to 4, just pull the gearshift back. The gearbox will just naturally go into 4th gear.
DW
Re: Re: Re: My $.02
Yeah, I know
DW
DW
Originally posted by tbirdrob
You don't get a higher top end with the six-speed, you just get more choices in the middle so that you can optimize the power and torque curves.
You don't get a higher top end with the six-speed, you just get more choices in the middle so that you can optimize the power and torque curves.
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 412
I don't know about that one, what is the 'theoretical' top speed (using gear rations) of the 5 spd? According to the chart the 6spd is good for over 200mph, if you had the hp to take it there. I think the 5spd is only good for 175 mph, but I am not sure.
It's safe to say that the car will never reach redline in top gear. Even if you supercharged the car, it won't reach it. Think about it, The Bentley Arnage T, with 450 hp and 645 lb-ft 
of torque, tops out at 168 mph. That may be a governed top speed, but the hp & tq numbers give you an idea of just how much hp is needed to get there. There are lots of other examples. There's a guy on here, Turbo97SE, with 371 hp or so. He just might reach 175 mph in his 5 speed, but that's definitely a rare maxima with that kind of hp. But in NA form, never.
DW
of torque, tops out at 168 mph. That may be a governed top speed, but the hp & tq numbers give you an idea of just how much hp is needed to get there. There are lots of other examples. There's a guy on here, Turbo97SE, with 371 hp or so. He just might reach 175 mph in his 5 speed, but that's definitely a rare maxima with that kind of hp. But in NA form, never.DW
Originally posted by 2002Maxxxima
I don't know about that one, what is the 'theoretical' top speed (using gear rations) of the 5 spd? According to the chart the 6spd is good for over 200mph, if you had the hp to take it there. I think the 5spd is only good for 175 mph, but I am not sure.
I don't know about that one, what is the 'theoretical' top speed (using gear rations) of the 5 spd? According to the chart the 6spd is good for over 200mph, if you had the hp to take it there. I think the 5spd is only good for 175 mph, but I am not sure.
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 412
Originally posted by dwapenyi
It's safe to say that the car will never reach redline in top gear. Even if you supercharged the car, it won't reach it. Think about it, The Bentley Arnage T, with 450 hp and 645 lb-ft of torque, tops out at 168 mph. That may be a governed top speed, but the hp & tq numbers give you an idea of just how much hp is needed to get there. There are lots of other examples. There's a guy on here, Turbo97SE, with 371 hp or so. He just might reach 175 mph in his 5 speed, but that's definitely a rare maxima with that kind of hp. But in NA form, never.
DW
It's safe to say that the car will never reach redline in top gear. Even if you supercharged the car, it won't reach it. Think about it, The Bentley Arnage T, with 450 hp and 645 lb-ft
of torque, tops out at 168 mph. That may be a governed top speed, but the hp & tq numbers give you an idea of just how much hp is needed to get there. There are lots of other examples. There's a guy on here, Turbo97SE, with 371 hp or so. He just might reach 175 mph in his 5 speed, but that's definitely a rare maxima with that kind of hp. But in NA form, never.DW
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 350
Re: Re: Re: 5 speed vs. 6 speed
Well, I have a 2000 5-spd SE and a 2002 6-spd SE, and the power difference is very apparent, especially with the low-end torque. To say the difference is not noticeable is to not have driven the cars back to back.
Originally posted by CCS2k1Max
Of course you felt a power difference. You were comparing a 4th gen, 190 hp engine with the (reported) 255 HP VQ35... There won't be that much diff between the 222 and 255 HP or wherever they are actually rated.
Of course you felt a power difference. You were comparing a 4th gen, 190 hp engine with the (reported) 255 HP VQ35... There won't be that much diff between the 222 and 255 HP or wherever they are actually rated.
Thread Starter
Supporting Maxima.org Member
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 110
Wow
You guys are really getting out there on the RPM thing. Well I decided to buy a 2k2 6 speed. I have heard all of the issues that people are having but I don't think there isn't a car out there without issues. My 2k1 was a great car I think this will be the same.
Thanks for all the input.
You guys are really getting out there on the RPM thing. Well I decided to buy a 2k2 6 speed. I have heard all of the issues that people are having but I don't think there isn't a car out there without issues. My 2k1 was a great car I think this will be the same.
Thanks for all the input.
Dyno plot says I have the most area under the Administrator curve
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 7,064
LOL, you guys are forgetting that not all RPM's are created equally
The VQ30DE was designed to rev. The engine is extremely over-square (meaning big-bore, short-stroke, 3.66in x 2.89in) and it has a very high rod:stroke ratio of 2.0:1, which is more common on race tuned engines and minimizes side-to-side forces and vibrations. A 1.5:1 RS ratio is more typical. So even though the VQ30 engines turn pretty high RPMs, they were designed for it.
My 99 5spd is turning about 3300rpm @ 80 mph in 5th gear, and it's perfectly content to hang there all day, even at speeds higher than that. And because the engine is so torquey, there's really no need to ever downshift on the highway. Heck, the engine is so smooth that I've had it at over 4000rpm in 4th at over 80 mph and seriously didn't even notice until I looked down and saw the tach. A VQ30 running at 3800-4000rpm has the same piston speeds of say a Honda at only 3000 rpm or so. The high revs on the highway did take a bit of getting used to, but once you understand the design of the engine and how it doesn't mind it at all, you learn to appreciate it
The VQ35DE is a bit different. Still over-square in design, but the piston speeds are higher. Bore x Stroke is now 3.78 x 3.20in. Most of the extra displacement comes from the added stroke. Because of the increased stroke, this will have a VQ35DE engine running at 10% greater pistons speeds (working harder) than a VQ30DE at the same exact RPM's.
So even though the 6spd has a taller cruising gear that puts you at lower RPM's, the VQ35DE is working more for each rev than a VQ30 is. I calculated it out, and at the same speeds with a VQ30 in 5th, and a VQ35 in 6th, the VQ35 will still have slightly lower piston speeds. 5th Gear is pretty much identical between them, though. So if a VQ35 and VQ30 are both in 5th and at the same RPM and speed, a VQ30 will be running 10% lower piston speeds (not working as hard) because of the shorter stroke design.
Hopefully I didn't confuse anybody
The VQ30DE was designed to rev. The engine is extremely over-square (meaning big-bore, short-stroke, 3.66in x 2.89in) and it has a very high rod:stroke ratio of 2.0:1, which is more common on race tuned engines and minimizes side-to-side forces and vibrations. A 1.5:1 RS ratio is more typical. So even though the VQ30 engines turn pretty high RPMs, they were designed for it.
My 99 5spd is turning about 3300rpm @ 80 mph in 5th gear, and it's perfectly content to hang there all day, even at speeds higher than that. And because the engine is so torquey, there's really no need to ever downshift on the highway. Heck, the engine is so smooth that I've had it at over 4000rpm in 4th at over 80 mph and seriously didn't even notice until I looked down and saw the tach. A VQ30 running at 3800-4000rpm has the same piston speeds of say a Honda at only 3000 rpm or so. The high revs on the highway did take a bit of getting used to, but once you understand the design of the engine and how it doesn't mind it at all, you learn to appreciate it
The VQ35DE is a bit different. Still over-square in design, but the piston speeds are higher. Bore x Stroke is now 3.78 x 3.20in. Most of the extra displacement comes from the added stroke. Because of the increased stroke, this will have a VQ35DE engine running at 10% greater pistons speeds (working harder) than a VQ30DE at the same exact RPM's.
So even though the 6spd has a taller cruising gear that puts you at lower RPM's, the VQ35DE is working more for each rev than a VQ30 is. I calculated it out, and at the same speeds with a VQ30 in 5th, and a VQ35 in 6th, the VQ35 will still have slightly lower piston speeds. 5th Gear is pretty much identical between them, though. So if a VQ35 and VQ30 are both in 5th and at the same RPM and speed, a VQ30 will be running 10% lower piston speeds (not working as hard) because of the shorter stroke design.
Hopefully I didn't confuse anybody
Dyno plot says I have the most area under the Administrator curve
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 7,064
Here's what I'm talking about in easy to read format...
Pistons Speeds at 80 mph
Honda J30A1 at 2700rpm in 4th (3.39in stroke): 25.4 fps
Nissan VQ30 at 2600rpm in 6th (2.89in stroke): 20.9 fps (theoretical)
=========
Nissan VQ30 at 3300rpm in 5th (2.89in stroke): 26.5 fps
Nissan VQ35 at 3300rpm in 5th (3.20in stroke): 29.3 fps
Nissan VQ35 at 2600rpm in 6th (3.20in stroke): 23.1 fps
The first two illustrate what piston speed really means. Even though the Honda and theoretical VQ30DE (with 6th gear) are running roughly the same RPM's, the VQ is not working nearly as hard with much lower piston speeds.
The last three compare the VQ30 to the VQ35. 5th gear vs 5th gear the VQ30 isn't working as hard, despite the fact that the RPM's are the same. 6th gear in the VQ35 takes care of that, and then some, along with giving the engine slightly better fuel economy. Similarly, a VQ30 with the 6th ratio would be working even easier than the VQ35.
Note that even though the J30A1 Honda is running 500rpm less at 80 mph in 4th (top gear, automatic), it still has roughly the same pison speed as a VQ30DE running 500rpm higher in 5th gear.
Pistons Speeds at 80 mph
Honda J30A1 at 2700rpm in 4th (3.39in stroke): 25.4 fps
Nissan VQ30 at 2600rpm in 6th (2.89in stroke): 20.9 fps (theoretical)
=========
Nissan VQ30 at 3300rpm in 5th (2.89in stroke): 26.5 fps
Nissan VQ35 at 3300rpm in 5th (3.20in stroke): 29.3 fps
Nissan VQ35 at 2600rpm in 6th (3.20in stroke): 23.1 fps
The first two illustrate what piston speed really means. Even though the Honda and theoretical VQ30DE (with 6th gear) are running roughly the same RPM's, the VQ is not working nearly as hard with much lower piston speeds.
The last three compare the VQ30 to the VQ35. 5th gear vs 5th gear the VQ30 isn't working as hard, despite the fact that the RPM's are the same. 6th gear in the VQ35 takes care of that, and then some, along with giving the engine slightly better fuel economy. Similarly, a VQ30 with the 6th ratio would be working even easier than the VQ35.
Note that even though the J30A1 Honda is running 500rpm less at 80 mph in 4th (top gear, automatic), it still has roughly the same pison speed as a VQ30DE running 500rpm higher in 5th gear.
OK, OK, I get it. The VQ30DE with it's square rod/stroke ratio tends to not work as hard at higher rpms than the bigger VQs/Honda. Nice Maybe that's why, when I had a stock intake, I used to bury the rpms past redline in 3rd and not even notice it The engine was so smooth I just kept going.
DW
Maybe that's why, when I had a stock intake, I used to bury the rpms past redline in 3rd and not even notice it The engine was so smooth I just kept going.DW
Originally posted by SteVTEC
LOL, you guys are forgetting that not all RPM's are created equally
The VQ30DE was designed to rev. The engine is extremely over-square (meaning big-bore, short-stroke, 3.66in x 2.89in) and it has a very high rod:stroke ratio of 2.0:1, which is more common on race tuned engines and minimizes side-to-side forces and vibrations. A 1.5:1 RS ratio is more typical. So even though the VQ30 engines turn pretty high RPMs, they were designed for it.
My 99 5spd is turning about 3300rpm @ 80 mph in 5th gear, and it's perfectly content to hang there all day, even at speeds higher than that. And because the engine is so torquey, there's really no need to ever downshift on the highway. Heck, the engine is so smooth that I've had it at over 4000rpm in 4th at over 80 mph and seriously didn't even notice until I looked down and saw the tach. A VQ30 running at 3800-4000rpm has the same piston speeds of say a Honda at only 3000 rpm or so. The high revs on the highway did take a bit of getting used to, but once you understand the design of the engine and how it doesn't mind it at all, you learn to appreciate it
The VQ35DE is a bit different. Still over-square in design, but the piston speeds are higher. Bore x Stroke is now 3.78 x 3.20in. Most of the extra displacement comes from the added stroke. Because of the increased stroke, this will have a VQ35DE engine running at 10% greater pistons speeds (working harder) than a VQ30DE at the same exact RPM's.
So even though the 6spd has a taller cruising gear that puts you at lower RPM's, the VQ35DE is working more for each rev than a VQ30 is. I calculated it out, and at the same speeds with a VQ30 in 5th, and a VQ35 in 6th, the VQ35 will still have slightly lower piston speeds. 5th Gear is pretty much identical between them, though. So if a VQ35 and VQ30 are both in 5th and at the same RPM and speed, a VQ30 will be running 10% lower piston speeds (not working as hard) because of the shorter stroke design.
Hopefully I didn't confuse anybody
LOL, you guys are forgetting that not all RPM's are created equally
The VQ30DE was designed to rev. The engine is extremely over-square (meaning big-bore, short-stroke, 3.66in x 2.89in) and it has a very high rod:stroke ratio of 2.0:1, which is more common on race tuned engines and minimizes side-to-side forces and vibrations. A 1.5:1 RS ratio is more typical. So even though the VQ30 engines turn pretty high RPMs, they were designed for it.
My 99 5spd is turning about 3300rpm @ 80 mph in 5th gear, and it's perfectly content to hang there all day, even at speeds higher than that. And because the engine is so torquey, there's really no need to ever downshift on the highway. Heck, the engine is so smooth that I've had it at over 4000rpm in 4th at over 80 mph and seriously didn't even notice until I looked down and saw the tach. A VQ30 running at 3800-4000rpm has the same piston speeds of say a Honda at only 3000 rpm or so. The high revs on the highway did take a bit of getting used to, but once you understand the design of the engine and how it doesn't mind it at all, you learn to appreciate it
The VQ35DE is a bit different. Still over-square in design, but the piston speeds are higher. Bore x Stroke is now 3.78 x 3.20in. Most of the extra displacement comes from the added stroke. Because of the increased stroke, this will have a VQ35DE engine running at 10% greater pistons speeds (working harder) than a VQ30DE at the same exact RPM's.
So even though the 6spd has a taller cruising gear that puts you at lower RPM's, the VQ35DE is working more for each rev than a VQ30 is. I calculated it out, and at the same speeds with a VQ30 in 5th, and a VQ35 in 6th, the VQ35 will still have slightly lower piston speeds. 5th Gear is pretty much identical between them, though. So if a VQ35 and VQ30 are both in 5th and at the same RPM and speed, a VQ30 will be running 10% lower piston speeds (not working as hard) because of the shorter stroke design.
Hopefully I didn't confuse anybody
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Everything you want to know...
Originally posted by 2002Maxxxima
Well, I personally have experienced 5th @ 5700 going ~ 138, shifting to 6th and getting to 4600 ~ before getting a little nervous.
Well, I personally have experienced 5th @ 5700 going ~ 138, shifting to 6th and getting to 4600 ~ before getting a little nervous.
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 412
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Everything you want to know...
Originally posted by 92 SE-R 02 SE
i tried this yesterday, althought i topped at at 130 in 5th. its amazing how much power the 3.5 has. my buddy went for a ride in my stock 02. His words "Damn this thing is fast!!"
i tried this yesterday, althought i topped at at 130 in 5th. its amazing how much power the 3.5 has. my buddy went for a ride in my stock 02. His words "Damn this thing is fast!!"
Junior Member
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 29
Originally posted by CCS2k1Max
Love my 5 sp. 2k1 se. It lays down the power fast, no hesitation. Even at highway speeds (70-75 mph) all I have to do is give it some gas (read: don't have to floor it) and its into the triple digits without hesitation. My only gripe is about the high 5th gear ratio/final drive. At 70 mph the engine runs at a little over 3000 rpm (hell, my wife's minivan runs 75 mph at around 2000 rpm!). I haven't checked this for myself, but I hear the 6th gear takes care of that.
Love my 5 sp. 2k1 se. It lays down the power fast, no hesitation. Even at highway speeds (70-75 mph) all I have to do is give it some gas (read: don't have to floor it) and its into the triple digits without hesitation. My only gripe is about the high 5th gear ratio/final drive. At 70 mph the engine runs at a little over 3000 rpm (hell, my wife's minivan runs 75 mph at around 2000 rpm!). I haven't checked this for myself, but I hear the 6th gear takes care of that.
John
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Re: Re: Re: 5 speed vs. 6 speed
Originally posted by CCS2k1Max
Of course you felt a power difference. You were comparing a 4th gen, 190 hp engine with the (reported) 255 HP VQ35... There won't be that much diff between the 222 and 255 HP or wherever they are actually rated.
Of course you felt a power difference. You were comparing a 4th gen, 190 hp engine with the (reported) 255 HP VQ35... There won't be that much diff between the 222 and 255 HP or wherever they are actually rated.
cause when the jumped to the 3.5L torque went up from 217 to 246 THAT'S 30 lbft more than the 3.0 5th gen! and only 40 lbft over the lighter 4th gen...so there wasn't alot of differnce between both the 3.0's...and the 4th gen was faster...barely...cause it's lighter...STOCK for STOCK...SAME DRIVER....SAME CLIMATE...SAME DAY...SAME TIRES...you get the point..
I've driven a 4th gen 5 speed...several, and i owned a 4th gen auto..now I have a 6 speed...but I think the 4th gen was barely faster than the first 5th gens...
can anyone back me up on this...
NOT CONSIDERING BAD DRIVERS AND CLIMATE FOR CHRYSTS SAKE!
if the guy drove a 5th gen 3.0, and then a 3.5, he'd have noticed even a bigger difference...but just barely..
-vq
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Re: Re: My $.02
Originally posted by dwapenyi
The 5 speeds automatically lock you out of reverse. If you downshift from 5 to 4, just pull the gearshift back. The gearbox will just naturally go into 4th gear.
DW
The 5 speeds automatically lock you out of reverse. If you downshift from 5 to 4, just pull the gearshift back. The gearbox will just naturally go into 4th gear.
DW
my 3 cents
-vq
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Posts: n/a
Originally posted by CCS2k1Max
So excluding all other factors and just looking at rpms, which would you prefer, your engine running at 2500 or 3000 rpm at the same speed?
Galo, you make several good points, especially the linkage differences. I wasn't aware the 6 sp was cable. Knowing that and the fact that the top gearing is about the same for both, I'm sticking with the 5 sp.
So excluding all other factors and just looking at rpms, which would you prefer, your engine running at 2500 or 3000 rpm at the same speed?
Galo, you make several good points, especially the linkage differences. I wasn't aware the 6 sp was cable. Knowing that and the fact that the top gearing is about the same for both, I'm sticking with the 5 sp.
-vq
Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 77
Excellent Choice
Originally posted by RF951
Wow
You guys are really getting out there on the RPM thing. Well I decided to buy a 2k2 6 speed. I have heard all of the issues that people are having but I don't think there isn't a car out there without issues. My 2k1 was a great car I think this will be the same.
Thanks for all the input.
Wow
You guys are really getting out there on the RPM thing. Well I decided to buy a 2k2 6 speed. I have heard all of the issues that people are having but I don't think there isn't a car out there without issues. My 2k1 was a great car I think this will be the same.
Thanks for all the input.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: CCS2..wait one...the gearing is indeed VERY
Originally posted by Galo
My point was that the taller gearing in the 6-speed basically negates the advantage of 3.5 liter engine to pull hard(er) in top gear because the much taller gearing offsets the greater power/torque of the the additional half-liter.
My point was that the taller gearing in the 6-speed basically negates the advantage of 3.5 liter engine to pull hard(er) in top gear because the much taller gearing offsets the greater power/torque of the the additional half-liter.
negates the whole 3.5 liter?
that's not agreeing with me...
who accelerates in "top gear" when they have a stick....if I want to pass, and I'm doing less than 80...I'll drop into 3rd, or 4th if I don't need to go to fast (passing an Accord)...hehe
I don't think I'll be giving up my 3.5 and my 6 speed for a 3.0 and a 5 speed because i don't have "top gear" acceleration...
I guess the Viper and Z06, the NSX...they'd all be better off with a 5speed because they'd have better top gear acceleration? that's rediculous...
the 6 speed just negates the whole 8.0 Liter V10...it would accelerate so much faster in top gear if it were A THREE ON THE FRICKIN TREE!
sorry man...but in my opinion that is a dumb way of justifying your 5 speed...
-vq
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Re: Re: If I remember correctly, I said a) 5-speed at
Originally posted by 2002Maxxxima
So, just get in the car get up to 50, shift to 6th, punch it, and see how long it takes? I'll try it on the way home tonight. Problem is watchin the road, the speedo and the watch. It's going to be tricky. hehe. Oh yeah, and rush hour traffic might have something to say about it too.
Edit:
Also, Can someone make another table like that for the 5sp? I don't have an ESM with the ratios.
So, just get in the car get up to 50, shift to 6th, punch it, and see how long it takes? I'll try it on the way home tonight. Problem is watchin the road, the speedo and the watch. It's going to be tricky. hehe. Oh yeah, and rush hour traffic might have something to say about it too.
Edit:
Also, Can someone make another table like that for the 5sp? I don't have an ESM with the ratios.
-vq
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Re: Okay...I'm home...two 50-70 runs in 5th
Originally posted by Galo
-but only in top gear, of course.
-but only in top gear, of course.
but 6th isn't made for accelerating...it's made for cruising...which makes the 3.5 6speed a better combo of sport/touring.....
how many posts in a row is that...i better go to bed...11:00 is WAY past my bedtime..
-vq
Re: Re: Re: Re: 5 speed vs. 6 speed
Yeah, when you factor the power/weight ratio, even though the 4th gen has 190 hp, it's right up there with the 5th gen 3.0 and 3.5. With a some decent mods th 4th gen nearly matches a stock 3.5 Maxima in terms of power to weight.
DW
DW
Originally posted by VQMAN
are you sure...I think the 190hp 5 speed is slightly faster than the 222hp 5-speed...because torque was only up 12 from 205-217...and the 4th Gen was lighter...
cause when the jumped to the 3.5L torque went up from 217 to 246 THAT'S 30 lbft more than the 3.0 5th gen! and only 40 lbft over the lighter 4th gen...so there wasn't alot of differnce between both the 3.0's...and the 4th gen was faster...barely...cause it's lighter...STOCK for STOCK...SAME DRIVER....SAME CLIMATE...SAME DAY...SAME TIRES...you get the point..
I've driven a 4th gen 5 speed...several, and i owned a 4th gen auto..now I have a 6 speed...but I think the 4th gen was barely faster than the first 5th gens...
can anyone back me up on this...
NOT CONSIDERING BAD DRIVERS AND CLIMATE FOR CHRYSTS SAKE!
if the guy drove a 5th gen 3.0, and then a 3.5, he'd have noticed even a bigger difference...but just barely..
-vq
are you sure...I think the 190hp 5 speed is slightly faster than the 222hp 5-speed...because torque was only up 12 from 205-217...and the 4th Gen was lighter...
cause when the jumped to the 3.5L torque went up from 217 to 246 THAT'S 30 lbft more than the 3.0 5th gen! and only 40 lbft over the lighter 4th gen...so there wasn't alot of differnce between both the 3.0's...and the 4th gen was faster...barely...cause it's lighter...STOCK for STOCK...SAME DRIVER....SAME CLIMATE...SAME DAY...SAME TIRES...you get the point..
I've driven a 4th gen 5 speed...several, and i owned a 4th gen auto..now I have a 6 speed...but I think the 4th gen was barely faster than the first 5th gens...
can anyone back me up on this...
NOT CONSIDERING BAD DRIVERS AND CLIMATE FOR CHRYSTS SAKE!
if the guy drove a 5th gen 3.0, and then a 3.5, he'd have noticed even a bigger difference...but just barely..
-vq
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 5 speed vs. 6 speed
Originally posted by dwapenyi
Yeah, when you factor the power/weight ratio, even though the 4th gen has 190 hp, it's right up there with the 5th gen 3.0 and 3.5. With a some decent mods th 4th gen nearly matches a stock 3.5 Maxima in terms of power to weight.
DW
Yeah, when you factor the power/weight ratio, even though the 4th gen has 190 hp, it's right up there with the 5th gen 3.0 and 3.5. With a some decent mods th 4th gen nearly matches a stock 3.5 Maxima in terms of power to weight.
DW
0-60 6.5 4th gen
0-60 6.7 5th gen 3.0
0-60 6.0 5th gen 3.5
-vq
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 412
Originally posted by VQMAN
rpm mph 6 speed Maxima 3.5L
60mph---1800rpm
65mph---2000rpm
70mph---2200rpm
80mph---2500rpm
tested on the way to work this morning
-vq
rpm mph 6 speed Maxima 3.5L
60mph---1800rpm
65mph---2000rpm
70mph---2200rpm
80mph---2500rpm
tested on the way to work this morning
-vq
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 5 speed vs. 6 speed
That's why I said "With some decent mods"
DW
DW
Originally posted by VQMAN
well, I think the 4th Gen is slightly faster than the 5th gen 3.0 and the 3.5 is ALOT faster than both
0-60 6.5 4th gen
0-60 6.7 5th gen 3.0
0-60 6.0 5th gen 3.5
-vq
well, I think the 4th Gen is slightly faster than the 5th gen 3.0 and the 3.5 is ALOT faster than both
0-60 6.5 4th gen
0-60 6.7 5th gen 3.0
0-60 6.0 5th gen 3.5
-vq
Supporting Maxima.org Member
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,039
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 5 speed vs. 6 speed
Originally posted by VQMAN
well, I think the 4th Gen is slightly faster than the 5th gen 3.0 and the 3.5 is ALOT faster than both
0-60 6.5 4th gen
0-60 6.7 5th gen 3.0
0-60 6.0 5th gen 3.5
-vq
well, I think the 4th Gen is slightly faster than the 5th gen 3.0 and the 3.5 is ALOT faster than both
0-60 6.5 4th gen
0-60 6.7 5th gen 3.0
0-60 6.0 5th gen 3.5
-vq
Stock v. Stock, the 5th gen has an advantage over the 4th gen at high speeds though. Modded v. modded, it is much closer depending on what speed you roll from.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 5 speed vs. 6 speed
Originally posted by dwapenyi
That's why I said "With some decent mods"
DW
That's why I said "With some decent mods"
DW
even though the 4th gen has 190 hp, it's right up there with the 5th gen 3.0
THEN
you said that "With some decent mods" it'll match a 3.5L
what I was trying to say, was that the 4th gen is quicker than the 5th gen 3.0....I didn't think you were talking about mods on the 4th gen in relation to the 5thGen 3.0....
to clarify...
-vq
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 5 speed vs. 6 speed
OK. I may have not been claer, but what I was trying to get at, is that since we have 190, 222-227, and 255 hp in the 4th and 5th gens, the numbers would suggest that the 4th gen is quite a bit behind the others, when it's not really, once you factor in the power/weight ratio, that's all.
Anyhow, to get back on topic, I would like a 6 speed, and that collar lockout for reverse is nice. As I said earlier, there's an automatic lockout on the 5 speeds. The one annoyance about the 5 speed lockout, it works perfectly fine in the 5 to 4 downshift, but sometimes, when standing still and trying to get reverse, it can be a chore. Gotta put it in 2nd then reverse, or let the car roll a little etc. It's an annoyance I can deal with. It's not like I have most of my fun going in reverse.
DW
Anyhow, to get back on topic, I would like a 6 speed, and that collar lockout for reverse is nice. As I said earlier, there's an automatic lockout on the 5 speeds. The one annoyance about the 5 speed lockout, it works perfectly fine in the 5 to 4 downshift, but sometimes, when standing still and trying to get reverse, it can be a chore. Gotta put it in 2nd then reverse, or let the car roll a little etc. It's an annoyance I can deal with. It's not like I have most of my fun going in reverse.
DW
Originally posted by VQMAN
right....
right before that you said that the 4th gen was "right up there with the 5th gen 3.0"
THEN
you said that "With some decent mods" it'll match a 3.5L
what I was trying to say, was that the 4th gen is quicker than the 5th gen 3.0....I didn't think you were talking about mods on the 4th gen in relation to the 5thGen 3.0....
to clarify...
-vq
right....
right before that you said that the 4th gen was "right up there with the 5th gen 3.0"
THEN
you said that "With some decent mods" it'll match a 3.5L
what I was trying to say, was that the 4th gen is quicker than the 5th gen 3.0....I didn't think you were talking about mods on the 4th gen in relation to the 5thGen 3.0....
to clarify...
-vq
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