I think this is a very interesting discussion i thought i'd bring to the attention of the forum. http://www.bmwboard.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2135
No need to make fools out of ourselves, but i thought you mind like this.

 

I enjoyed it..

 

Thats pretty interesting, its funny because at my job, a lot of my co-workers are Bimmer owners, from a couple of 01' M3's, (one hardtop the other a cabrio) and few 5's and a brand new 7 series. Well, they will all tell you they love owning the "ultimate driving machines", but they hate that they break so much

 

what a bunch on rich snotty people ... "i have the money, so i'm gonna do what i want" probably some 17 year who s daddy is a doctor or somethin and gets whatever he wants ... all nissan's, honda's, and toyotas are ricers, give me a fuc<in break

 

The guy who started that thread is a moron. One of the members made the point exactly...why is he comparing a midsize sedan with a subcompact coupe? If Maxima is to be compared with any BMW, it would be the 5 series, NOT the 3 series.

Rob

 

really, most of their posts (even if snotty) are correct. You can't compare a $50k M to a $23k max. A loaded 330 is over $37k... I paid $26 for my loaded max. So a BMW is superior, but it also costs 50% (+) more.

I think the real issue to discuss is, since their cars cost so much more, how can the max beat them in *any* areas??? We really shouldn't, but a 2k2 Max has more interior room than a 3-series and can out-accelerate (straight-line) a 325/328. I'm speaking from experience. I'm not sure about a 330 (never lined up next to one).

Which would I rather have? A 330xi, hands down. If I had to do it again? I'd pick a 2k2/2k3 Max again. I can't justify all that extra money for an incremental gain.

 

Even if I had the money, I would still choose a 2k2 2k3 Max over a Bimmer. In Raleigh, they are starting to flood the streets like the Hondas. I admit that either the 325/328/330 are nicer cars stock for stock but the price cannot justify the difference. I am always looking for the best bang for the buck and the Max cannot be touched. Besides slap on a few bolt-ons and the Max becomes a very tough competitor to any Bimmer on the road.

If you want to hang with a M5...

FSTB, RSB, SFC, RSTB, Springs, Ypipe, Bpipe, Supercharger/Turbo, 18" Volks or SSR's, and the Big Brake Kit should get you close. And after adding all that you will still be well under the cost of a new M5.

 

You know, I read some of the comments from BMW owners and I had a mix of strange feeling. On the one hand, they are not fully objective toward Maxima. Good reliability, powerful engine and low price are disregarded. On the other hand, I admire and love BMW. They are just too expensive for me. I can afford one, but I cannot allow myself to "waste" so much many on a car.

However, I had a funny thought. If a Korean car owner would try to convince me that his car is better than Maxima, but just cheaper, I would think exactly like BMW owners toward us. Something like: "Korean cars are POS. I would buy one only if I face a dealer with a loaded revolver against my head." I guess not, I don't visit Korean dealerships, so they don't have a chance to do that to me.

 

I like the way everyone in that thread is posting personal opinions about stuff, and then at the end saying, "nothing personal..."

IMO, shift_these is making himself out to be a whiny dip_shift. Stick to the facts, don't venture into the G35, Skyline, Supra discussion. The comparison is Max vs 330ci, period.

The thing about MOST BMW owners is that, they DO feel superior to most cars on the road, including the Maxima... until they pull up to a stoplight next to one.

To me, it breaks down like this... MOST older BMW drivers buy the car for the quality and refinement... MOST younger BMW drivers buy them because they think that their car is better than yours.

I'd drive a Max over any 3XX series Beemer any day. Around here, the 3XX series BMW's are reproducing like rabbits. Seems like everyone has one now. I guess they think they're buying the same quality as a 5XX or 7XX series BMW.

Anyway, I'm not hating on BMW's by any means. I LOVE the 5-series, and may look into buying one when it's time for a new car.

And, shift_these... if you really want to represent the folks from the .org... give the BMW's respect, but use the facts to back up your argument. That's the way most people over here feel anyway.









"nothing personal"

 

Somebody link that article from JD Power or whoever it was saying that a survey of German drivers actually preferred JAPANESE cars, in particular, the MAXIMA. A big part of that was reliability and not breaking down nearly as much as their "domestic" German cars




Whatever

 

As far as I recall it was the article from edmunds web site. I can not take it seriously though. Very few Maximas are sold in Europe. A couple of month ago I looked through a British auto magazine. There was a section devoted to used cars of each make. Across Maxima it said: "AVOID. Depreciation disaster." As I recall the British Maxima price goes down from $35k to $10k in three years. It did not look like the journal hated other Nissan cars, since Primera and Almera were rated OK. I guess gas price is a big factor.

You must also remember that European Maxima is quite different from ours. It looks more like Infinity, has more advanced interior electronics, but they have weak 2.0L or 3.0L engines, well below 200hp.

 

Uh - guys? I read through the thread, and saw a couple of obnoxious inputs from idiots, some good advice, lots of bias towards their choice of cars, and some thoughtful (and polite) notes from others. A lot like the threads you see in Maxima.org... Actually, considering that "shift_these" jacked their thread, there were less flames thrown than I would expect.

I did think the username "zerofighter" was pretty funny, considering that Germany and Japan were allies in the last WW

 

The bottom line is that the Maxima is a much better value.

A friend at work was thinking of going with a 325i coupe but that damn thing didn't even come with a CD player as standard! WTF? Oh, and the leather isn't even leather - it's leatherette. Oh you want the real stuff? That'll be an extra $1400. Pffft!!

By the time you're said and done with optioning out the car w/ equipment you're at $34k. That's for black or red. All the other colors are like an extra $500.

You better drive it like your mom because you'll take it in the **** if you need it serviced.

My boss just got a 325 a year or so ago. While he was driving on the highway at like 100 or something the front turn signal lense flew off...DOH!! I think it had some suspension problems too. The ENTIRE front suspension was replaced...REPLACED!! It was all covered under warranty but the car was less than a year old at the time.

I'll keep my Maxima thank you very much.

 

haha...Yeah, that would be like us claiming superiority over a 20k Kia or Hyundai. (which of course is true, but hey, we spent more, we should get more...)

 

When I was in college, my boss for a summer job drove a 7 something, and I was driving a chevy cavalier that was 4 years old with like 80k miles on it. We had to take clients out in my cavalier a lot because his AC was always broken. I recall like 3 attempts to fix it and it never worked right. His beemer trans also went south. I thought that was a disgarce and would never consider them after that experience. My 13k cavalier was much more reliable.

My wife's boss is a doctor. He was ready to buy a new car about 2 months ago. I do all his computer work, we've become good friends. He was talking about what car to get, and he said that image is everything for him. Patients will judge his success (therefore his ability) by the car he drives. He ended up in a benz. He thought about a beemer but that bummed him out, he felt forced into an image car, and most of the time they are crap cars.

Personally, I have more than enough money now to afford a beemer. I actually have enough stashed that I could pay cash for a m3 or higher. Lucky for me I don't have to sell an image, nor do I worry about my image. I was able to put my money into something much more reliable and just as much fun to drive.

The fact that these guys find it necessary to compare themselves to the max must tell you guys something! too much free time, and they paid too much for a car. To them, the badge meant everything, effing lemmings.

 

Nah, I'm 99% sure it was JD Power or somebody of that caliber.

Umm...**ALL** cars in Europe have much smaller engines. Nobody wants huge engines with gas prices at the US equivalent of $4-5/gal. A 2.0L engine is considered "big" there

Common 3-series: 318i, 320d (diesel!) 325i was very rare.
Common 5-series: 520i, 520d, 525i
Common 7-series: 725i


You may consider those VQ engines "small" but they are very "big" in Europe. $1.50/gal vs $4-5/gal has a strange way of defining the engines that people want in their cars

 

I find it stupid how they went from comparing the 330ci to the maxima, and then all together saying 'you can tell people you drive a BMW". Good points from either side though.

People say to show facts; i think everything said in there is a fact. Everyone knows it i think.

 

You were right.

Automotive market research group J.D. Power said its survey of 15,000 German car owners showed Japanese vehicles came out top in terms of customer satisfaction in all seven size categories from compact cars to luxury cars and off-roaders.

Toyota cars won in six of the categories, while Nissan's Maxima model took first place in the luxury segment -- an embarrassing result for BMW and Mercedes who usually concentrate on scoring points off each other rather than worrying about foreign competitors

You can find the full article here:
http://www.auto.com/industry/iwiri23_20021023.htm

 

I f**kin hate people like you who say this ****, just because our parents work hard to make money who are you to put them down. My parents are both doctors and they are paying for my maxima, so does that put me in the same boat as who you are talking about?

 

Uh - yup. Hehe.. j/k.

You have to admit in MOST cases that when people pay for their own car they appreciate it much more.

It ticks me off to see kids that are handed cars when they don't give two sh*ts about it. You know that most any high schooler who is driving a Mustang/Camaro/Firebird couldn't even afford the insurance on it. I was thrilled when my dad got me a 4 year old car (that I had to share with my sister) and all I had to do is pay for the insurance. I treated that car (and all my cars) like gold.

Phatman5050 - I'm not saying that YOU don't treat your car like gold - I'm just saying MOST kids just don't appreciate the things that are given to them.

 

I tend to agree with you. If parents make the choice to financially support their children beyond age 16 or even 18, that's their choice and part of the power of their success. It is certainly not an automatic reflection on the children. I think it shows an enormous amount of immaturity to make judgements like that.

My personal experience affords me a view of both sides of the story. I was financially independent of my parents by the age of 17, in college, while my sister was financially cared for well beyond college and through grad school. We are both successful adults and my sister would never be caught being snobby about the fact that my parents bought her a car and I would never be insulting or bitter due to the fact that they didn't buy me one. My parents raised her and I as better people than that and so can any parents. Snobby, spoiled children do not get there as a result of that pretty, new car...they get there because their parents raise them to be snobby, spoiled children.

Having said that...I think a lot of parents make those mistakes that do produce spoiled, financially unstable young adults...but if you are not one of those, PHATMAN5050, don't waste your time reacting to judgements like these...you know if you're a stand-up guy or not and in five or ten years, nobody will know whether or not your parents bought you a car and you'll be judged on your own ability to succeed in life.

 

i hope you didn't choose to get the BMW for its name over the Maxima... i used to own a E36 BMW 5 spd w/ lowering springs 18" O.Z. racing alloys and a nice system, it was one of the more envied cars in my area - everyone new my car and loved it. i then one day decided that i had enough of the car and wanted a new car. so at first i was going to get the acura rsx type-s and make a "ricer" as some of you might want to call it. then my dad test drove the car after me and said that it didn't feel as powerful as it was supposed to be (and i trust his decision making b/c he has many powerful cars which include a 750iL, a 500SL, a 68 firebird 400, and a few others) so i went on to look into getting a lexus IS. went to the dealership and was treated like crap. when i went w/ my dad they gave me more respect (partly b/c a few of the people there knew my dad) they let me drive the car - i liked it i guess, but they didn't have the color that i wanted so i waited. i went back a few weeks later and they finally had the color i wanted, but i wanted to test drive the car one more time make sure it was what i wanted but they had me drive a diff color instead when i got back from the test drive the other car that i had wanted was already sold beneath my nose so i never returned. next i decided that maybe i would get a new BMW so i test drove the 330 coupe and sedan and liked the sedan a litle better but was not totally impressed. my dad suggested that i go to the nissan dealership which a good friend of his owned, but i thought to myself "a Nissan? me, no way i would buy a Nissan, i have a BMW now, that would be a downgrade in cars!" but i agreed to take the trip w/ my dad to the Nissan dealership and drove the maxima, the V6 and the 4 cylinder altimas... i like the maxima better then the others. i asked all my friends which car i should go w/ and at least 85% said the BMW, but i t was b/c of the name i'm sure. after time to decide you obviously can tell which vehicle i chose... a roomier, fast, BETTER VALUE car ----- THE V6 255 HP NISSAN MAXIMA!!!!!!!! i used to hear dumb comments from friends and other people who knew me a what kind of car i previously owned like "why would you go from a BMW to a Nissan" or "what were you thinking" but i just laughed at them and told them that i know what i am doing and didn't want to waste my $$$. i still had money left over after buying the fully loaded (including navigation) to get rims, tv's, and a tight system and still added items as we speak. after i started adding things to the Max my friend's views changed.... one of the only things i like better about a BMW is the demon eye headlights, but i am going to be adding those to the maxima soon... take care and happy car buying, choose carefully and remember "haste makes waste" so give the Maxima a fair chance in the battle and it might just win the war!

i used to pride myself in saying "i own a BMW" and see other's reactions... NOW i say with even MORE PRIDE "I DRIVE A MAXIMA" i love my maxima i wouldn't trade it for the BMW badge

just so you know i am telling the truth, my old BMW page...
same house, person everything...
http://www.sounddomain.com/id/lowbeamn
chack it out, it was a really really nice car... but half of what the maxima is

note: I bought my Maxima and everything in it w/ my own money that i earned working at my job for over 2 years, but the BMW was given to me as a reward from my father for my athletic achievements in high school. i am 19 and chose to buy a Nissan rather than keep a free BMW!

 

look at this comment in my guestbook...

posted by tha_bimmer_guy 1/25/03, 11:17 pm

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I hope you've learned not to pick fights with superior cars now.

if that isn't some Bullsh*t.. PEACE!

 

It's not everyone whose parents give them a car, it's the people who are given a car then act like they're better than everyone else because they're driving a nice car.

 

MichaelAE... That was absolutely PERFECT post! I moved up here to St. Louis in June of 2002 w/a 1991 Maxima and financially independent from my parents for the first time in my life. I just bought a 2003 Maxima SE (super black on black), and this was by far the biggest decision of my life. PHATMAN5050, if your parents are financially stable enough to support you w/a GREAT CAR, more power to them (as did mine). In addition, as long as you keep your head up and pursue everything in life giving 110%, THAT will be the defining factor between you and the 17 yr. old ricer. Just be proud of what you have been blessed w/and treat it w/care. Just my 2 cents added to an absoultely RIGHT ON post by MicahelAE... *CHEERS*

 

I don't agree. When I was buying car about 1 1/2 yrs ago, I was looking at Maxima, TLs, and BMW 3 series.

 

wasnt that guy on the org.?

 

Thanks my man...your $.02 are a nice touch as well.

 

unlike most of my friends, my dad bought me 3 cars so far. Am I boiled...probably, but do I act like ****? i don't think my friends think of me that way. What am I doing now? studying my azz off for school and gonna try to become a dentist....and I'm really happy did all this for me cuz now I can just concentrate on my school and not worrying about anything else

 

M3 or R34 Skyline GT-R?

Ditto! GT-R~~

 

oh lord another "my max is better than your bimmer because it costs less" post.

 

It is interesting why someone have an extra $10,000+ US to spend on a new $40,000 vehicle would even consider a Maxima that is $10,000 less.

 

Just a note to show a little difference between Nissan and BMW

Just got off the phone with my bdyy from Richmond. He took his 325i in for service, just to replace a tire. He bought the car from them used..it is an 01.

The gave him a brand new Z4 as a loaner...for the day. Had if from 9am to 5pm...That my friends is good service...

What does Nissan give you an 88 sentra if your lucky

 

it's not having $10K extra, it's being able to shell out another $100/month for the payments

 

$10k /$100=100 month. How long is your loan? 9 years?

 

i just threw down a number........ most of my bimmer owning friends are paying between $100-$200 more a month than i am, it wouldn't stretch me too much to plop down another $200/month on car payments, heck i spend at least a $100 on drinks every time i go out. I think for most younger people, its just a matter of where you want to put your money. I prefer to spend money doing things, not on my car, some of my friends put their money into cars and go out less. I go on 2-3 vacations per year, cut down on that and I could afford another $10K on a car too. I venture this is the case for most young professionals not strapped with family and mortgage payments yet.

 

okay,

1. BMW drivers are not rich and snobby....they like to enjoy their cars..that's why they bought a BMW, and not a benz.

2. BMW's ARE better than nissans....just from personal experience

3. The only reason why that anyone would go for a nissan is because it's like a Japanese BMW, you get as much or more stuff in it than the BMW and costs less. However, BMW performance and handling is out of this world.

 

Make no mistake, even the "cheap" BMW 325 (A4 1.8t Quattro and G35 also) is vastly superior to the Maxima in terms of non-linear performance parameters and factory/dealer post-sale service commitment. When we were looking for a larger family car to replace my 2000 Civic LX, we set a price ceiling of $35k. The Maxima and other non-luxury family sedans (Accord, Camry, Impala) weren't even on the list initially. I started by cross-shopping the CTS, 325, A4, IS300, S60, and G35. I loved the driving dynamics of the A4, 325, and G35 but didn't want to buy the luxury brands because of the connotations of driving a luxury brand; especially considering my employer AND the fact that I'm also a part-time student in law school.

Compared to the people in my office, I have a household income that is more than $30k above the next highest household income and, as such, am looked upon with envy. Were I to have purchased one of my top 3, I would have had to endure the same kind of "snob" accusations from my coworkers that I've read on this thread.

In the last month or so, I've had to put my Max in for service three times for one problem (rear window TSB). Dropping it off has been a pain in my hindquarters due to scheduling/timing conflicts and the lack of loaner vehicle service. I would gladly put up with the silly name calling for the convenience of a loaner vehicle and longer warranty. I enjoy the power and the convenience features of my fully loaded 2k2 SE (Nav, Meridian, Bose, Sunroof, etc). However, in hindsight, I should have purchased what I initially wanted rather than thinking about the image my purchase would convey.

 

Wake up, Infiniti does the same thing. What's your point???

 

actually Hyundai isn't all that bad anymore...

should be more like BMW is to Nissan as Nissan is to Ford.

-vq