03 SVT cobra would own a Z

31,000 for a new EVO

 

But everyone and their momma have a mustang. I'm tired of looking at them. Z looks better though, and with twin turbo it would probably own the SVT.

 

You could not give me another Ford...

I'd take the Z any day over a Stang

 

Pretty much my problem with EVO's, STI's, etc. I just can't imagine dropping $30K or higher on a glorified econo car...no matter how good the performance is. I want a distinct sports/performance car even if not the absolute fastest on the block, especially if the trade is comfort.

 

$ for $ the Z is a hell of a car with tons of potential.

Flat out it is beautiful...!!!!!!

 

Because they are already boosted means that turbo upgrades and getting more power out of them will be much cheaper than on the Z, as well as more reliable. I agree about the current subaru but the 04 looks nice.

Mod for mod the subaru or any other factory FI car would be cheaper to make very fast. Look at it this way, buy a 300zTT and a 350 both run about the same numbers but put 5,000 into both and the ten year old car would walk all over the new one, not taking any thing away from the new Z that's just how things are.

 

I personally think you are wrong on this. Click this link.Fast WRX

More Details

 

Yeah, it's way easier to get more boost out of a car that is already turbo than it is to put in a custom kit. All the plumbing is already there plus the compression ratio is probably like 8.5:1.

I personally think that if Nissan tries to do a TT version of the Z it will push it (pricewise) up against some seriously fast competition. Actually, if you pay what some of these dealers are asking for the Z you could own a Vette for a few grand more. That way you wouldn't really need to worry about the EVO, STI, etc.

 

Man, you gotta reconsider your opinions of the EVO or STi as compared to the Z or other similar cars.
I just can't imagine dropping $30K or higher on a glorified econo car...no matter how good the performance is This quote is just not reflecting of the truth. The EVO is far from a glorified anything... It's a completely different car from the Lancer even if it shares *some* of it's coachwork. There just isn't any "econobox" about it... The fit and finish of my EVO is every bit as good or better than the Track Model 350Z... Think about it 270 more welds on the body, additional steel stiffeners, aluminum fenders and hood, real, triangulated strut tower bar, aluminum suspension links, Sodium filled aluminum valves, hollow camshafts, twin scroll turbo... no, no way you can hang the "glorifed econobox" label on it. Another thing is the comfort, the truth is that the Track Model Z is not any more confortable than the EVO. They are both truly performance cars and you don't get boulevard ride out of them. That's not what they are for. If you want luxury and total comfort go for the Q45 or the luxury model Maxima. If you want performance, you've gotta make some compromises in the comfort area....

 

It is still a Lancer.

http://mitsubishicars.com/MMSA/jsp/evo/index.jsp

I don't care how much is technically different, it is a LANCER in much the same way that whatever you call a Civic, even if it starred in the Fast and the Furious () with little shared with its road version...it is still a Civic. I would not want an Impala body strapped to LS1 underpinnings because it is still AN IMPALA!!

I want something distinct and to itself. With performance to boot. I don't need to go Q45, I can quite happily stop at the G35c.

All I am saying is I don't want to be driving down the street and people wonder if I have a Lancer or WRX until they get to the badges. Bodykits can be gotten anywhere so even that does not help.

 

Actually, the EVO 8 is not a Lancer. It's based off some other Japanese platform, I forget which one. That's actually one of the complaints about the new EVO is that it dropped some performance when they switched platforms. (also the new platform is the reason they aren't competing in the WRC this year).

 

You are absolutely right... Gotta compare apples to apples. The beauty of the Z is that it's a normally aspirated, RWD, classic sports car. It is never going to be as easy to upgrade power wise as an already turbocharged car. I've been trough that before with 2 Miatas and 1 (very fast) Integra GSR. You are going to spend a lot of money and then you still have a compromise. The beautiful high compression and high revving engines are prone to self destruction under forced induction. I know this from a hard earned, expensive education. The EVO can be made to put out well over 300 hp with a couple of $K worth of bolt-ons. Similar results can be had from the WRX. The 350Z would be quite expensive to supercharge or turbocharge. Of course, if you did it, it would absolutely destroy the EVOs or STIs. There just isn't replacement for displacement

 

Same look as a Lancer, same size as a Lancer, listed by its own manufacturing company as a Lancer...

hmmmm....

damn, that means Lancer to me.

 

Agreed, but wander over to the Scooby club and see how many of them are misfiring and ruing pistons because of over-boosting. Then you will be glad your car is NA.

 

You just don't like those cars, that's fine... I don't care what the average Joe thinks about my car. They probably have no clue of what it si anyway. They like you, are more impressed with what they think see I can tell you one thing for sure though, car enthusiasts know what it is a appreciate it. If you really think an EVO is nothing but a rebadged Lancer or that an STi is nothing but a rebadged Impreza, you really don't know much about performance cars

 

I am registered there, I was thinking WRX but highway performance suffers with all wheel drive so it is a R6 for me.

You could say the same thing of SC problems with maximas if you were new on this board. Bottom line for what it would cost just to do the turbo in the 350z (turbo exhaust manifold, intercooler, route things out of the way if needed, piping, injectors, AFC, fuel pump) you could make that subaru one he!! of a car. The design is already there so you will not have to move things, or figure out how to fabricate piping, if you want larger piping on the subaru the map has already been layed out, it is just easier and cheaper, not to mention more reliable because that is what is was designed to do.

 

I think the scooby would be the better deal, below is a direct quote from a guy I know who is an accomplished auto journalist, and racer:

-J

 

You are obviously missing the point (big surprise).

I know plenty about performance cars, true performance cars...as well as 'performance' cars based upon econobox beginnings. There is a difference and alwys will be. Crap, strap an F18 engine on the back of an old Chevette, remove its chassis and replace with something else, etc. etc. etc, guess what you still have? A Chevette.

Now take a performance suspension, purpose built chassis, put a high torque easy breathing motor, comfort seats, etc. wrapped in a unique body and what do you have? A 350Z among others, NOT an upgraded VERSION of something else.

THAT is my point.



Think what you like.

 

Those are APC tails???? I will never ever ever buy anything made by APC, they have been a detructive force in import tuning credibility.

 

All kinds of trick cast aluminum suspension bits, AWD, 271 hp from just under 2L?? At less than $30K....
From what I heard the EvoVIII does not have 271 HP its actually less than that but thats just my .2$

 

Wow, I thought folks who like and follow performance cars, would be better informed about these things. The EVO VIII does indeed have 271 hp. That's 4 hp less than the EVO VII that sells in Europe nad Japan. I'm not going to convince anybody whose mind is already made up, but just for educational purposes Car & Driver (among many other magazines) list the specs at:
1997 cc; 271 bhp @ 6500 rpm;
273 lb-ft @ 3500 rpm;
0-60 mph 5.1sec; 1/4 mile 13.8 @ 101.5 mph;
.97g lateral acceleration
Etc, any search in the web will reveal facts like these

As for price, I got mine for $29968 less $16.3K in trade plus tax for a total of $14.7K There were no 350Z Track Models (or even Enthusiast Models) for anywhere near that price..... The base 350Z doesn't have any of the big brakes, sports suspension, etc. so it's not comparable with the EVO VIII (or with the STi if it ever shows up)

As a former owner of 6 Nissan vehicles (including (2) Zs) and present owner of a 03 Maxima SE, I can tell you that I investigated the 350Z very closely... I actually considered buying one at the same time we purchased the Maxima. I didn't because they were jacking up the prices like mad and they continued that until the last time I checked about 2 months ago, however I can keep my mind open (like a parachute, it works better that way ) and when I saw the EVO I could recognize a very worthy car for a very good price.

 

all i can tell you is those evo seats are gonna be ripped to shreds very soon, those bolsters are nice, but way too much bolster for a small car like that which is hard enough to get in in the first place. just first observation i noticed about the EVO

 

I don't think a comparison between the 350Z and the EVO 8 is fair. The EVO is pure performance, with no attention paid to comfort. The 350Z does have power, but it's more of a sport coupe, but not a true sports car in my opinion. It has some attention to comfort, luxury, and ammenities, whereas the Evo does not.

The cars are similar, yet very different, so I don't think this is an apples to apples comparison.

 

Please find me an evo at less than 30k i'd be highly impressed.


ok... We knew that, however a Dodge Neon SRT-4 pulls similar numbers and trapspeeds in the quarter mile. Does that make it a performance car? Or just an upgraded neon?

The fact is the 350Z is the only PURIST's sport's car one can find at around 30k aside from maybe the S2000.

Please don't bring the SVT cobra into this because it doesn't even compare in balance, handling and refinement.

 

Please find me an EVO that doesn't look like crap

 

uuhhh the Mustang is a 12-sec car stock, change some pulleys and you have a 500hp street car, with about $1500 in mods, no TT 350 is gonna touch that.. 11-sec mustang.

And no not everyone has a SVT mustang, they are 390hp/390tq stock

 

Yeah, and I see from your signature that you've already improved the looks of your car..... ******

 

this thread is getting ridiculous.
Saying a performance car that has an econo model is crap is very "incorrect" <<trying not to stoop down as low as a few people on this thread.
Does that mean that the E46 M3 isn't worth buying over the 330ci? Or the E55 is comparable to the E500? or the allmight M5 is not worth it over the 540? Come on people; the evo 8 is by no means the sport version of the lancer, it's a true performance car.
Just like Nissan was making the 350Z for a specific market range, Mitsubishi was making the EVO 8 with a specific market range in mind. Even the chassis has a lot of differences.
Now stating that the evo 8 is ugly is truly an opinion. I don't own the car, but say that it's one great looking car. I have seen it and i think so. There is no way in freaking heck that you would think that it's a lancer.
People who are into cars will know that it's a variation of the lancer, but people who don't (like my fiancee ) won't think so at all.
Tell it how it is, not how you want it to be.

 

Grip is close .91 for the z and .90 for the cobra (can't find the slalom) Actually motortrend gave the handling the most praise
http://stage.motortrend.com/mar02/cobra/1.html

Price is very close

Acceleration is not even close

Tunability is in the favor of the cobra

Not taking away anything from the Z, but no one should take anything away from the cobra.

 

Good grief, the SRT-4 is a very fast and very high performance car... I actually considered it... Can brand loyalty (or just plain cussedness ) blind people to the facts? The SRT-4 is a very inexpensive high performance car. You don't like it, fine but it will spank anything short of the Skyline which is not even available here...

What the hell are you talking about "purist sport car" anyway? Go tell that to the Catterham or Lotus owners.... Man you are some kind of bigot

As far as the Mustang SVT goes, you are right, it does not comapre at all with the 350Z... It's so much faster in any kind of test that it's in a different class. Get a grip, state your likes and dislikes but please don't display your profound and utter ignorance arrogance and plain stupidity.

 

a ford is a ford is still a ford ..

why do ford engineers design not bad looking cars externally with nice engines, but pay no attention to interior or suspension???

the mustangs interior matches that of a Geo Metro!!
and it rides like a taurus

 

It depends on what your goal is. Being a car enthusiast I really don't care about cup holders, IMHO I could care less about having a TV or big bass stereo in the car. The reason is that IMHO the driving exprience is somthing that should be seperate from the general everyday exprience and somthing unique that should be enjoyed. No cell phone calls, or eating in the car for me, I don't need a cup holder because I won't use one (this was old german philosophy and the reason that their cars did not have such things)

I would much rather have factory forced induction for super easy modifications, and a car that lays down 12's stock, than brushed aluminum in the interior.

As far as a ford engineers paying no attention to suspension!!!??? a 2003 Porshce 911 GT2 would get smoked by a 2000 Ford Cobra R on the skidpad, in the slalom, and in braking. Thats pretty good suspension considering we are comparing a 3175 pound Porshce against a bloated 3590 pound cobra.

It's just my opinion about speed being a higher priority than interior quality so don't think that I am saying that the cobra is better than the Z, just to me it is for what it offers.

 

you know i actually had a valid reply going here, but then i remembered that you are trying to compare a ford to a porsche

 

I was in no way comparing a Cobra to a Porche, you had just said Ford engineers do not pay attention to suspension. The Porche is notorious for handling, it was a good bench mark to use as a comparison, not researching will get you newbie, no way would I take a Cobra-R over a Porsche but saying stereo-typical things about domestic handling without really knowing will not go unchecked here.

Welcome to the org.

 

You have some good smarts there Reeper, what most folks here seem to not realize is that there are actually a good number of excellent cars out there that have other brands.... As for the SVO over the Porsche.... Well, just how much money does the average car buyer have? Prsches are great cars (although some ******* will probably say that their Maxima will smoke one anywhere ), but the price of a new (or even used one) is prohibitive. Even with the stupid markups the dealers tag on the SVT, you can get one for $40K which is less than half the price of a typical Porsche...

 

I think what this all boils down to is that some people are afraid to admit (even to themselves) that there are other good cars besides Nissans.

I, for one, really like the Evo 8. I think it looks great, and has great performance out of the box. Mitsu, IMHO, made a big mistake in introducing the regular Lancer before bringing the EVO here, and so now people associate the Evo with the regular Lancer. If the regular Lancer had never been released here, we would all be sweating the Evo, instead of saying "it's just a souped up Lancer".

I also don't see what the big deal about the 350Z is. I haven't driven one, but I'll take everyone's word that it's really quick, fast, and handles well. But I also don't really like the look of it!

I'd much rather take the G35C, even if it has 7 less HP (or something like that).

 

Good points, agree about the time line of the lancer, and I like the look of the G35C, maybe Nissan could put a new muffler on it as they did with the 20th AE max (supposedly?) to give it that extra 7hp

 

Well, I'm glad to read a few posts about cars that show intelligence and ability to make logical deductions from factual information. Good grief, the way they go on against the EVO, you'd think one of them killed their mother or something.

I actually like the 350Z and considered buying one. I just made a different choice based on my particular predilection and desire. I am glad to hear though, that the Max is actually a very fast car (I'm a little scared to drive it anymore, I got my last speeding ticket in it) I wonder what it is likely to get at the dragstrip? Mine has the 6 speed and the Helical Limited Slip Diff as well as all the traction control stuff. On the minus side, it has about every other option under the sun except heated seats and navigation, so I suspect it's a bit on the porky side.... Anybody dragrace theirs yet? (and please, no lies about killing Z28s of Vipers, OK? )

 

Hey man, I envy your duo of cars--wish I could have the same, but just the Max ain't bad either!

About the dragstrip, I'm not too sure about the "fully loaded" 6 speeds, but people have been getting into mid to low 14s in the 1/4, and I can think of one (Emax) who went into high 13s (he has mods, but N/A).

 

Oh no way the Max is a bad car.... When my wife decided to upgrade from the Pathfinder, I researched the whole gamut of comparable cars. We looked at and decided against such as the Acura TLS, Honda Accord, Toyota Camry, and even the Infinity G35... I thought the G35 or the I35 would be suitable too, but she liked the Max better than all the others based on the styling and the ergonomics of the car. She's very observant and particular about visibility, seating positions, etc.