Hey guy my first time out with my 03 6sp Max.My best run was 2.41,60'-14.96@95.23 mph.The weather was very hot upper 90 deg.The run was made with everything still in the car,plus 1/2 tank of gas.Tell me what you think?Performance mod=JWT popcharger.[list=1][*]1.02[*]2.41[*]6.50[*]9.80[*]75.22[*]12.60[*]14.96[*]95.23[/list=1] I know that I blow on the 60',but it seem like the TBW was very hard to launch.Or was it the heat on the track or is the stock tires just su*k?I have a ??? for the 6sp Max,how do you guy launch your Max(tire pressure,rpm...)?How was your 60'?Thanx!Sorry for the long post.

 

nice times especially since its your first time!

 

Thanx!Sorry I forgot to said I only have JWT popcharger as performance mod.

 

I don't have a 2k2/2k3 6spd but I'd say you need to lower your tire pressure to at least 28psi (that's if your at 32) and make sure you only have 1/4 tank or less.

Also you might want to do a search to see how to get a better launch, your 60 wasn't terrible and the heat does factor in, overall you weren't bad considering your weight (gas in tank) and tire pressure plus the 90 degree weather wasn't any help.

I'd say a pretty decent set of times, I know that you'll do better next time, go when it is cooler and remove your left front light housing.

 

 

95 traps are pretty respectable for those conditions.

 

Lower it a little, but remember that street tires have maximum grip when inflated properly (fully). They are not like drag radials...

 

i dont think this is true. when you let our tire pressure, the tires becomes "flatter", thus more of the tire is touching the ground, thus traction is easier to grab and maintain.

60' times most definitely decrease when tire pressure is dropped to the low 20s compared to the street pressure of 32 PSI.

 

Good for teh 1st time......I hope i break 15seconds my first time out.

 

I got a 14.99 my first time out... good job.

bk2kmax...HUH? Are you saying take the headlight out? What's that going to do... keep your battery cold?

 

2k2wannabe, I was saying that more cold air will flow through under the hood and he could possibly do as some others at the track do such as relocate the battery into the trunk so that more cold air can flow.

There's no need for sarcastic remarks, I've seen many people do this at the track and to most who have done this, they swear by cooler temps under the hood.

 

and I've seen people run 15 flat then ice their intake and push their car to the line and run a 14.9 and they say icing/pushing was the difference... and then completely ignore the fact that the next run (still icing, still pushing) they run a 15.1... but they're still saying icing/pushing helped .

Come on... at this level, with our cars running nearly 99% stock, there's more of a chance any difference in time has more to do with the way you shifted than "taking out a headlight so more cold air can get in."

Hell, I ran that 14.99 when it was 40 degrees / 0 humidity and have since run 14.5 in 80 degrees / 75% humidity. And yes, both headlights were squarely where the factory put them.

 

I agree that shifting and knowing how to launch your car right will make the biggest difference at the track especially with the manual tranny car.

 

95mph is a good trap but it seems (to me) that you should be running about a 1/2 sec quicker. But I guess there's a learning curve for driving a 6sp.

You might want to checkout Cartest to determine the optimal shiftpoints; that program has helped me with every manual tranny car I've raced.

Peace.

 

My first time out...and first time I EVER drag raced at the track.. was 14.61sec@97mph...

This was on my 2k2, with my heavy amp rack, spare, full tank, and stock tire pressures..

NO modifications were done to the 2k2, it was bone stock, as it left the dealership (well except for the clear lights and the stereo)..

ED

 

Lower pressure is better on the tires for traction at the track. And whoever said take a headlight out. Im still laughing at that one. This is a 4 door family sedan running mid 14s to low 15s. Its not going to make a bit of difference. If you're that serious about drag racing you bought the wrong car to start with...

 

I said take out the headlight (not that it is something that I would do and I never claimed it works) but as I've stated I've seen many people do this at the track. You guys think you are something because you may know a little more than the next guy but all it does is shows is how big your ego is.

2k2wannabe as far as icing the intake I've seen people do that as well and I don't know if that works, obviously it doesn't according to you. I'd also have to agree with you as far getting a good launch and definitely losing some weight would help but no one wants a Maxima that is gutted. (You may as well be driving a Civic gutted for the racetrack if you do that).

 

dayum.. 14.61 with all dat ish in ur ride? did u slick ur tires b4 takin off? u must've not had any loss of traction... pretty good. Gotta give u props!!

 

Actually i thought 14.61 was pretty sloww considering the other times i have seen posted on the board....

I have seen autos pull that fast.. So i figured i am just a said *** driver..

ED

 

mini...nope, good run. You'll bet better with practice. I went from 14.9 to 14.5 by practicing, no mods.

JoKeRz42o, english please... WTF did you say?

 

You're dead wrong on the tire pressure issue. Run your tires underinflated for a 5000 miles and your outside part of the treads will be significantly more worn, with the center part of the tire with significantly less wear than it would normally see (if it was properly inflated). Same goes for over inflation. If you ride around with your tires overinflated, the center section will have the majority of the wear, and the outer tread will have much less than the normal amount. Look at this simple diagram...

III <--- Normal tire inflation and wear
I.I <--- Underinflated tire pressure over 5000 miles
.I. <--- Overinflated tire pressure over 5000 miles

In the first part, the tread wears evenly across all three "zones" due to the correct tire pressure being used.

In the second part, the tread wear is more severe on the outer "zones" and very little tread wear is seen in the center section (the steel belts trying to reinforce the tire due to improper low pressure).

The third part has the center "zone" getting the major amount of wear, and the outer sections getting very little due to improper over inflation.

Remember, there are steel belts in those tires, and if the tire is underinflated, the belts take up slightly more "slack" (since they maintain their rigidity regardkess of tire pressure) and the center section of the tire bows towards the middle/inner area. Just like if it's over inflated. The belts maintain their rigidity, but the extra air pressure bows the center section out away from the middle/inner tire area. Underinflated tires give you two outside smaller tire patches of contact, and overinflation gives you one small strip of contact patch down the center of the tire. Overinflated tires are far worse for traction than underinflated, but underinflated still has less traction than properly inflated steel belted street radial tires. ONLY SLICKS CAN GAIN TRACTION DUE TO LOWER PRESSURE DUE TO THEIR CONSTRUCTION!!!

Here it is again, put simply...

Overinflated tires = 1/3 traction zones properly inflated
Underinflated tires = 2/3 traction zones properly inflated
Correctly inflated tires = 3/3 traction zones properly inflated

It's that simple. The rest is nonsense and BS from people who do not know the facts.

 

Driving around on an underinflated tire for 5000 miles is different than lanching on an underinflated tire. When you launch on an underinflated tire it does flattens out a bit. Plus the lower tire pressure makes the tire bite.

I used to have a turbo 2wd eclipse. That car had no traction and the only way to get any decent 60' times was to get tire pressures down to like 18psi. It helped alot.

Take it from a guy who has had FWD traction problems way worse than our maximas.

 

BS, dropping pressure below 28# on a radial, causes the center of the tire to collapse, effectively reducing your contact patch. If you want to see for yourself, do what Hotrod magazine did some time ago: Go into an empty parking lot, and do a burnout with say, 32psi in the tires, them examine the tire marks on the pavement. Should be a nice flat, even print. Then drop the pressure to say, 18psi, and burnout. You will see tho distinct dark prints on the outsides of the tire mark and a faint center. Hotrod magazine did this very thing to expel the myth that a flat tire is a good tire. The only thing a low radial will do for you is increase your rolling resistance, therefore making you slower.

 

do you know why it increases rolling resistance? because more of the tire is touching the ground, thus more friction to overcome, thus causing the resistance.

 

Well I did lower my tire pressure to 20-22 at first,and I had alots of wheel hop.It doesn't matter what rpm I shift,from 1000-2000 rpm.When I add more air to the front,from 25-32 psi that when I made my best run.When we were at the track,my friend Robert has a temperature gauge that he could measure the air,fluid temperature.He put it into the intake shrout and measure 103 deg air temperature,WOW!There was this mustang guy he said he normally run 13.2,but he could only do around 14.5-14.7 all day long. So MiniRX7,can you give a little tip on like how you launch your car?Tire pressure,rpm,what brand of tire were you using?

 

You're wrong too...what makes you think that driving one mile or 5000 miles makes a difference in the contact patch?

 

And you're right on except for the rolling resistance part. See if you can find out which magazine did the article and post it here. If it wasn't raining here (and I actually had time to do it) I'd do some burnouts with all three tire conditions and post pictures. It's not a difficult concept to grasp. It's just another myth (like the 5 PSi rule when turbocharging aircooled VW engines)...

 

i think you're right in saying that distance doesnt make a difference on the contact patch. but i think you're wrong with your logic.

why do you think you get better gas mileage the more your tires are pumped and get bad gas mileage when they are underinflated? it is do to the resistance of the tire on the road. the more you pump up a tire the smaller the contact patch gets. and the less air that is in them the larger the patch gets. even if 32 is the recommended pressure, you will still get better MPG if you pump the tires up to 38 psi.

give it a test. drive around with your tires at 25 PSI then with them at 32 PSI and then take them up to 39 PSI. the higher pressure will net the best MPG because less tires is touching the ground.

my point? the less air in the tires the more tire is touching the gound...more traction.

 

drive around with your tires at 25 PSI then with them at 32 PSI and then take them up to 39 PSI. the higher pressure will net the best MPG because less tires is touching the ground. quoted by Newman

Wouldn't this be really bad for your tires? Not only would you have uneven tire wear, you'll also have a floaty ride, not to mention there would be an increase in road noise too.

 

I think he was saying to try it just to make a point.

I find it very funny how people still hold on to their misconceptions in the face of proof their wrong., but do nothing to try to prove their side.

Get out and do some burnouts and see for yourself which is better. You've got a magazine test and a few members saying underinflating a radial tire won't get better traction... where's the proof they're wrong??? "I heard somewhere..." isn't PROOF!

 

My proof is in every single steel belted street radial tire dealership in the United States. If someone can prove all of them wrong, then I'd like to see it.

And rolling resistance might be increased with lower pressure, but I have never personally seen that supposed "serious" decrease in mileage when my tires are low. If it is supposed to be less mileage with less pressure, then it isn't enough to make a difference in my regular variables that the car sees every week. Plus or minus 5% gas mileage is in my calculated variables, and that can include tires low and more stop and go traffic.

And I have done the burnout test myself, but I didn't take pictures of it when I did it. I'll have to re-do the test, take pictures, and then post them here. I might be able to get that done sometime this week...

 

Well, like I told 2K2wannabe, I do not see a great enough difference in overall mileage with low pressure (say 28 vs. 32 PSi) when driving my cars/truck. I have no explanation as to why you think your car or any car gets less mileage with lower tire pressure. I just don't have that major difference that you are referring to. Also, I don't let my tires get under a certain point of inflation for any of my vehicles. I check the pressures at a very minimum of once a week, and it's usually more like 2-3 times a week. This could be why I do not see the lower mileage you are talking about.

Also, I know that the contact patch is greater on tires with proper inflation, but what I do not know is what the total overall coefficient of grip is for properly inflated tires vs. underinflated tires. It could very well be that underinflated tires provide that higher coefficient with less contact patch, and that would explain the theroy of less mileage with less tire pressure. That could also explain why people with underinflated tires have severe wheel hop problems when launching on street radials. Perhaps with the correct inflation and the entire tire contact patch, you get the best of both worlds (traction and mileage). You may get a higher grip cohesion with underinflated tires, but that doesn't translate into better mileage or launching traction when you're at the strip.

OK, someone read that and tell me if it makes sense. I've got a headache and can't actually read what I'm typing...

 

quick.. I was saying people are listing experiments that show underinflated radials don't grip as well. That's the misconception I was talking about... should have made that more clear.

also, there are thousands of references to reduced gas mileage with tires underinflated even 10%... so if tires are supposed to be 34 then being at 31 can cause as much as 10% mileage loss.

Here's one:
"Underinflated tires can lower gas mileage by 0.4 percent for every psi drop in pressure of all four tires."

Rubber Manufacturers Association: https://www.rma.org/newsroom/release.cfm?ID=76

 

yeah i was just saying that to show that i was talking about. i didnt necessarily mean to try it out. but i was just using it as a senario to show my point.

2k2wannabe, who were you talking about when you said "I find it very funny how people still hold on to their misconceptions in the face of proof their wrong., but do nothing to try to prove their side."?

 

Sorry.. it's perfectly clear to me but I guess I don't write well.

I'm talking about anyone who believes you get better traction by underinflating their tires. I should have said this instead of what I wrote...

"If you believe you get better traction by underinflating your tires, please post some proof to that effect. People are citing results from personal and magazine experiments but the 'lower pressure is better' crowd just keeps saying 'I heard somewhere...' and 'I read...' instead of refuting with real information."

Better?

 

did i ever say "i heard somewhere..." "i read..."?

and how can you say otherwise? did you do some kind of extensive research on the matter? your arguement is just as back-up as mine...if not less. i am basing my statements on timeslips and threads that i have come across in the last 2 years on here. where are you getting your "proof"?...or lack there of. everything you've said so far has obviously been opinion. samething with quicksilver, he is talking like he is stating fact when all it pans out to be is his opinion. his theory about the "zones" is nothing but an idea from his head. i could easily refute his theory with an idea from my head. none of that will prove either of us right (or wrong). the only proof i have seen from you is the quote about underinflated tires reducing gas mileage...a point on which i agreed with you.

go to the 1/4 forum. look at the cars with the best 60's. but obviously ignore the ones with slicks. im talking about street tires. all of the best 60's on there are from cars with lower PSI in their front tires.

here are just a handful of examples:

http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?threadid=128429
http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?threadid=131492
http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?threadid=162921
http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?threadid=181529
http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?threadid=210089

 

It is fact that properly inflated radial street tires give you a better contact patch and the best overall traction and control. That includes racing conditions. Not only have I proven this time and time again during my own races, but so have millions of others who have raced the 1/4 tracks on radial belted street tires. Just because someone has a good run when they have their tires underinflated doesn't mean it's the best way to run at the track. Odds are that they have made other HP improvements and weight reductions (like in several of those threads you just posted). You're taking some things out of context to prove a point that isn't even valid. Go find some proof on the tire manufacturers sites since they test their tires for hundreds of thousands of miles and hours in varying conditions.

 

And I actually learned my "theroy" about street tires from a race driving course I took from a place called Panoz Racing School. It's in textbooks as fact with plenty of evidence to back it, not to mention years of road and GT style racing to further augment this "theroy" of mine. The only things made up in this thread are from your baseless babbling nonsense, using nothing but second hand info from threads in this very board and your own "intuition and interpertation". Stop using other people's info and go race for yourself. You'll find out real quick how your street tires will handle when they are severely underinflated.


EDIT-

Go to NTB or any other tire place and ask the people who's job it is for their advice and see what they say. It'd be an interesting experience if you get someone with actual classroom training.

 

THIS THRead is......



Oh!

 

as for me taking things out of context to prove a point, you just didnt see what i was showing you. all i did was go to the 1/4 forum and click on the cars with the best 60' times. this is in comparison to every time slip in that forum. i found that most of the good 60' times (that were not on racing slicks) came from cars with slightly deflated tires.