Wouldn't a strut brace (front or rear) be the same as a rear sway bar? Don't they serve the same purpose: keep the car stiff while cornering?
I suppose it is possible to install a rear sway bar, and NOT install a front strut brace, and have the front struts move, but that would only occur under extreme cornering, such as in a road course race. The car would be a little twisted at that point if one end of the car were not stabilized.
Am I on the right track here, or have I overlooked something?
Am planning on getting Stillen rear sway bar and not worrying about strut braces....thoughts?
I suppose it is possible to install a rear sway bar, and NOT install a front strut brace, and have the front struts move, but that would only occur under extreme cornering, such as in a road course race. The car would be a little twisted at that point if one end of the car were not stabilized.
Am I on the right track here, or have I overlooked something?
Am planning on getting Stillen rear sway bar and not worrying about strut braces....thoughts?
Member
Don't they serve the same purpose: keep the car stiff while cornering?
No and No.
Strut tower braces (or, lower sub-frame braces) are used to stiffen up the supension mounting points. When would you need stiffer points? When you use stiffer suspension systems and/or race the car on road courses. Why would you need to stiffen the mounting points? To let the suspension so its thing. Stiffer springs means more resistance against the wheel. When the wheel hits an object, something has to give. first the tire compresses. When the tire's sidewall compresses to the equal and opposite force of the impact, the remaining upward force then acts on the suspension (springs and shocks). Now, if you're using stiffer springs and shocks, these may be almost as stiff as the body mounting points, and BOTH will move as the force acts upon them. We want the suspension to soak up the force, not the frame of the car. Hence the usefulness of a brace.
Sway bars are used to tune the roll stiffness of the suspension. The stiffer the bar, the harder it is for the body to shift its weight, the more even will be the weight b/t the left and right suspension and tires. All things being equal, the stiffer the roll stiffness, the less absolute cornering grip. BUT, you gain better response in transient manuevering like in the slalom. When you increase the roll stiffness on one end (front vs. back), you will also affect the weight distribution when cornering. The stiffer you make one end, the more weight it sees during cornering. The more weight there is on the front end, the more the car is likely to understeer. The more weight their is on the rear, the more likely the car will oversteer. (remember, this is during absolute maximum cornering)
So, if we increase the roll stiffness in the front by adding a stiffer sway bar, the more the car will understeer since more weight will be transferred to the front.
If we increase the stiffness in the back, more weight will transfer to the rear, and the car will understeer less.
You can also accomplish the same results by slapping on stiffer springs. But it's usually easier to install, and cheaper to buy sway bars.
Hope this makes things clearer for you.
No and No.
Strut tower braces (or, lower sub-frame braces) are used to stiffen up the supension mounting points. When would you need stiffer points? When you use stiffer suspension systems and/or race the car on road courses. Why would you need to stiffen the mounting points? To let the suspension so its thing. Stiffer springs means more resistance against the wheel. When the wheel hits an object, something has to give. first the tire compresses. When the tire's sidewall compresses to the equal and opposite force of the impact, the remaining upward force then acts on the suspension (springs and shocks). Now, if you're using stiffer springs and shocks, these may be almost as stiff as the body mounting points, and BOTH will move as the force acts upon them. We want the suspension to soak up the force, not the frame of the car. Hence the usefulness of a brace.
Sway bars are used to tune the roll stiffness of the suspension. The stiffer the bar, the harder it is for the body to shift its weight, the more even will be the weight b/t the left and right suspension and tires. All things being equal, the stiffer the roll stiffness, the less absolute cornering grip. BUT, you gain better response in transient manuevering like in the slalom. When you increase the roll stiffness on one end (front vs. back), you will also affect the weight distribution when cornering. The stiffer you make one end, the more weight it sees during cornering. The more weight there is on the front end, the more the car is likely to understeer. The more weight their is on the rear, the more likely the car will oversteer. (remember, this is during absolute maximum cornering)
So, if we increase the roll stiffness in the front by adding a stiffer sway bar, the more the car will understeer since more weight will be transferred to the front.
If we increase the stiffness in the back, more weight will transfer to the rear, and the car will understeer less.
You can also accomplish the same results by slapping on stiffer springs. But it's usually easier to install, and cheaper to buy sway bars.
Hope this makes things clearer for you.
Member
Wow!!! Terrific post. Thanks. I am putting the RSB on today with the Eibachs, and will be putting the STB's on in the next week or so once Stillen ships them (they are behind machining them and there are like 20 of us waiting). If you have patience I could tell you how much difference the STB's make in a few weeks. Or you could just get them 
Senior Member
take a paper clip, construct a "H" hold the middle bar that joins the l l together the "-" in the middle. push down on it with the ends pressing against the table. the bottom ends of the ll. the top woill flex in. put another horizontal bar on the very top of th two ends of the ll joining them. push down again. less flex occurs. but then again.. so what goes bad??? hmm.. hahaha.
addco makes strut tower braces too. it's hollow while stillen is solid.
addco makes strut tower braces too. it's hollow while stillen is solid.
Senior Member
To help out "handling". Since all vehicles, by design understeer, especially the maxima, it's best to install a rear strut brace to help induce more oversteer. It's best if it is adjustable to tune in how much the towers flex in so you can have as neutral of a handling feel as possible. I had a CRX that I had tuned to oversteer just a bit, amazing how well it did.
From my experience and from what I've heard, the rear sway bar does just about nothing. It looks pretty, but, the performance upgrade isn't as great. I had ordered a Rear Strut Brace through stillen three weeks ago, they never sent it to me (due to back order)...I was sick of waiting so I'll probably construct my own. A front Strut brace is more detrimental to handling than anything. Helps steering response but induces much more understeer. The front strut brace, in my eyes, is more cosmetic than anything. But remember, the maxima isn't a road course car.
From my experience and from what I've heard, the rear sway bar does just about nothing. It looks pretty, but, the performance upgrade isn't as great. I had ordered a Rear Strut Brace through stillen three weeks ago, they never sent it to me (due to back order)...I was sick of waiting so I'll probably construct my own. A front Strut brace is more detrimental to handling than anything. Helps steering response but induces much more understeer. The front strut brace, in my eyes, is more cosmetic than anything. But remember, the maxima isn't a road course car.
Senior Member
Rear Sway Bar though, improves handling great. That is what I heard!!??
I am thinking of getting it.
And FSTB, which I had on my 95 SE, was very good, I noticed that front had much less flex to it. The car felt more stable.
Does RSB really improve handling great???
I am planning on getting it.
I am thinking of getting it.
And FSTB, which I had on my 95 SE, was very good, I noticed that front had much less flex to it. The car felt more stable.
Does RSB really improve handling great???
I am planning on getting it.
Senior Member
i feel that the rear strut tower is more stable than the front. we have the reinforcement beams and stuff on the back. the read deck also is attached to the rst. on the 2kmax not sure bout the 4th gen. we have these brownish blackish metal brackets that are also reinforcements that are attched to the frame of the car and the shock tower. so i say get teh rsb then the rstb. i don't really feel that the rstb is all that useful compared to the fstb and rsb. neone care to correct me if i'm wrong?
Senior Member
Sneakers and cars have similar characteristics. Outsole/tires. Midsole/suspension. Upper/chassis.
On a golf shoe, TPU plates (thermoplastic urethane) are place in in arch area and in other areas to stiffen the shoe. Why would they do this? Because when you're golfing, you do not want the shoe to flex - less flex allows for better weight transfer and foot stability. If you're feet slide around, you'll be way off in your shot. These TPU plates also increase the torsional rigidity of the shoe. This reduces flex.
Now back to cars... a good handling vehicle must always start with a strong chassis that does not flex and have high torsional rigidity. YOu can have the best suspension designed by Lotus, but it's useless if the chassis flexes. The strut tower braces are designed to reduce flex and increase torsional rigidity.
The rear sway bar will make a more noticeable difference on the Maxima, though. The RSB will allow for better weight distribution. When you're making a left turn, all of the weight will want to shift to the right (passenger side). A rear sway bar will transfer weight onto the driver side to balance and stabilize the vehicle. With an adjustable bar, you can adjust (duh) how much weight transfer is allowed by lengthening or shortening the mounting point.
On a golf shoe, TPU plates (thermoplastic urethane) are place in in arch area and in other areas to stiffen the shoe. Why would they do this? Because when you're golfing, you do not want the shoe to flex - less flex allows for better weight transfer and foot stability. If you're feet slide around, you'll be way off in your shot. These TPU plates also increase the torsional rigidity of the shoe. This reduces flex.
Now back to cars... a good handling vehicle must always start with a strong chassis that does not flex and have high torsional rigidity. YOu can have the best suspension designed by Lotus, but it's useless if the chassis flexes. The strut tower braces are designed to reduce flex and increase torsional rigidity.
The rear sway bar will make a more noticeable difference on the Maxima, though. The RSB will allow for better weight distribution. When you're making a left turn, all of the weight will want to shift to the right (passenger side). A rear sway bar will transfer weight onto the driver side to balance and stabilize the vehicle. With an adjustable bar, you can adjust (duh) how much weight transfer is allowed by lengthening or shortening the mounting point.
Wow you guys know a lot about this stuff. The only thing is some of you conflict. Can any prove that they are right about this stuff? I am leaning toward the fstb and rsb. Anyone want to change my mind?
Senior Member
Quote:
Originally posted by mingo
i feel that the rear strut tower is more stable than the front. we have the reinforcement beams and stuff on the back. the read deck also is attached to the rst. on the 2kmax not sure bout the 4th gen. we have these brownish blackish metal brackets that are also reinforcements that are attched to the frame of the car and the shock tower. so i say get teh rsb then the rstb. i don't really feel that the rstb is all that useful compared to the fstb and rsb. neone care to correct me if i'm wrong?
I'm speaking from my own opinion, I have FRONT STRUT TOWER BRACE and REAR SWAY BAR on my 2k car's stock suspension. Originally posted by mingo
i feel that the rear strut tower is more stable than the front. we have the reinforcement beams and stuff on the back. the read deck also is attached to the rst. on the 2kmax not sure bout the 4th gen. we have these brownish blackish metal brackets that are also reinforcements that are attched to the frame of the car and the shock tower. so i say get teh rsb then the rstb. i don't really feel that the rstb is all that useful compared to the fstb and rsb. neone care to correct me if i'm wrong?
FSTB definately made the car steers better. The turn-ins are more stable with reduced body flex, but like SCCA Solo2 said, it seems i had more UNDERSTEER after the FSTB was installed.
After I put on the REAR SWAY BAR, it made the car handles even better during turns and cornerings. Before the RSB, i'd feel like the rear end of the car is flexing, and i was dragging the rear end thru the corners. After the RSB, the entire car stays pretty flat when i make corners. I absolutely loved the RSB. Although i'm no expert in car handling, but like SCCA Solo2 said, it seems like RSB increased the OVERSTEER tendency of the car, make the max handles more neutral.
In my opinion, RSB is the one that has the most significant effect on handling if u don't have aftermarket springs and struts.