Modding a manual vs. an automatic...
Thread Starter
Newbie - Just Registered
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11
Modding a manual vs. an automatic...
Based on the fact that the auto loses more HP to the wheels than the manual, does the loss stay proportionate when adding mods?
Suppose a mod is advertised to add 10 hp to the wheels. Would both transmissions see the same 10 whp gain? Or would the auto not gain as much?
Thanks.
Suppose a mod is advertised to add 10 hp to the wheels. Would both transmissions see the same 10 whp gain? Or would the auto not gain as much?
Thanks.
Junior Member
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 28
While I don't have proof to back it up, I'm almost positive that you would lose some power from the automatic. Remember the auto takes a percentage, not a set amount. So I'm guessing that it will always take around 6% (or whatever percent it does take).
-Zipper
-Zipper
each transmission takes a certain percentage of power away from the amount that is produced at the flywheel, so to answer your question, yes, a car with an auto tranny would get less power to the wheels than the manual tranny car with the same mod(s), well im pretty sure if not someone please correct me
Donating Maxima.org Member
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 188
Yes, autos will lose proportionately (sp) more with each mod to the wheels than a manual would. Remember the reasons for loss through the transmission/drivetrain. The biggest is the median of transfer (fluid vs. direct drive), second largest being heat.
Now, if you could add a mod that would not increase the heat output or coefficient of transfer through the tranny, it would be the same. However, you will add heat. Take the example to the extreme... If I supercharged my Max, the tranny WOULD run hotter, and the tranny would have a harder time putting power to the wheels. So, say manuals would get 80whp, an auto would likely gain 65-70whp.
Now, if you could add a mod that would not increase the heat output or coefficient of transfer through the tranny, it would be the same. However, you will add heat. Take the example to the extreme... If I supercharged my Max, the tranny WOULD run hotter, and the tranny would have a harder time putting power to the wheels. So, say manuals would get 80whp, an auto would likely gain 65-70whp.
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 221
Originally posted by KCMichaelM
Yes, autos will lose proportionately (sp) more with each mod to the wheels than a manual would. Remember the reasons for loss through the transmission/drivetrain. The biggest is the median of transfer (fluid vs. direct drive), second largest being heat.
Now, if you could add a mod that would not increase the heat output or coefficient of transfer through the tranny, it would be the same. However, you will add heat. Take the example to the extreme... If I supercharged my Max, the tranny WOULD run hotter, and the tranny would have a harder time putting power to the wheels. So, say manuals would get 80whp, an auto would likely gain 65-70whp.
Yes, autos will lose proportionately (sp) more with each mod to the wheels than a manual would. Remember the reasons for loss through the transmission/drivetrain. The biggest is the median of transfer (fluid vs. direct drive), second largest being heat.
Now, if you could add a mod that would not increase the heat output or coefficient of transfer through the tranny, it would be the same. However, you will add heat. Take the example to the extreme... If I supercharged my Max, the tranny WOULD run hotter, and the tranny would have a harder time putting power to the wheels. So, say manuals would get 80whp, an auto would likely gain 65-70whp.
![[maxi-overdose]'s Avatar](https://maxima.org/forums/customavatars/avatar1856_1.gif){kind=avatar}
Originally posted by amaxeatinvtecs
solution to overheat = VB mod!!!!!!!!!!!
solution to overheat = VB mod!!!!!!!!!!!
VB mod is not a solution to overheat...it will add more pressure and more heat to your tranny. a tranny cooler is the solution to overheating the tranny.
this is from the FAQ on maxima.org
How can a torque converter improve my performance and what does it do?
A torque converter is basically the clutch for an automatic transmission. It transfers power from the engine to the transmission gears. However unlike a clutch in a manual transmission, the torque converter (TC) transfers power hydraulically through the transmission fluid. Since the transfer of power is done hydraulically rather than mechanically, more power is lost between the engine and drivetrain. With this mod you actually loose power at the expense of the added stall speed (i.e. more slip before stall speed is achieved). What you get in return is much better torque multiplication which is what makes for stronger launches at wide open throttle (WOT). It will allow you to launch at higher rpms which is only beneficial if you have slicks or drag radials. On regular tires, you'd only spin worse. With sticky tires, you can launch like a rocket which is an advantage especially when your engine is not that responsive through mid range torque. Check out Level 10 or ProTorque for more information.
A torque converter is basically the clutch for an automatic transmission. It transfers power from the engine to the transmission gears. However unlike a clutch in a manual transmission, the torque converter (TC) transfers power hydraulically through the transmission fluid. Since the transfer of power is done hydraulically rather than mechanically, more power is lost between the engine and drivetrain. With this mod you actually loose power at the expense of the added stall speed (i.e. more slip before stall speed is achieved). What you get in return is much better torque multiplication which is what makes for stronger launches at wide open throttle (WOT). It will allow you to launch at higher rpms which is only beneficial if you have slicks or drag radials. On regular tires, you'd only spin worse. With sticky tires, you can launch like a rocket which is an advantage especially when your engine is not that responsive through mid range torque. Check out Level 10 or ProTorque for more information.
to solve the power loss thru tranny, you will need a better torque convetor, a more efficient one to transfer more power to the wheel.
from the last dyno, I was able to push 273hp to my wheel @ 10psi on my auto max. Another SC'ed manual maxima put 306whp to the wheel @ 10-11psi after fine tuning, but that car has some engine problem.
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 221
Originally posted by [maxi-overdose]
VB mod is not a solution to overheat...it will add more pressure and more heat to your tranny. a tranny cooler is the solution to overheating the tranny.
this is from the FAQ on maxima.org
to solve the power loss thru tranny, you will need a better torque convetor, a more efficient one to transfer more power to the wheel.
from the last dyno, I was able to push 273hp to my wheel @ 10psi on my auto max. Another SC'ed manual maxima put 306whp to the wheel @ 10-11psi after fine tuning, but that car has some engine problem.
VB mod is not a solution to overheat...it will add more pressure and more heat to your tranny. a tranny cooler is the solution to overheating the tranny.
this is from the FAQ on maxima.org
to solve the power loss thru tranny, you will need a better torque convetor, a more efficient one to transfer more power to the wheel.
from the last dyno, I was able to push 273hp to my wheel @ 10psi on my auto max. Another SC'ed manual maxima put 306whp to the wheel @ 10-11psi after fine tuning, but that car has some engine problem.
thats not so bad @10psi, are u using a vbmod or torque converter as well to hold all that power? how often do u redline, once a day?week?month?? im just curiouse because i dont have enough money to swap to5 spd so im gonna risk boosting the auto,but it does give me more confidence everytime i see other boosted autos on the org.
Originally posted by amaxeatinvtecs
thats not so bad @10psi, are u using a vbmod or torque converter as well to hold all that power? how often do u redline, once a day?week?month?? im just curiouse because i dont have enough money to swap to5 spd so im gonna risk boosting the auto,but it does give me more confidence everytime i see other boosted autos on the org.
thats not so bad @10psi, are u using a vbmod or torque converter as well to hold all that power? how often do u redline, once a day?week?month?? im just curiouse because i dont have enough money to swap to5 spd so im gonna risk boosting the auto,but it does give me more confidence everytime i see other boosted autos on the org.
Member
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 68
The transmission takes a percentage of power, but it is variable dependent of how much power is being produced. Typically, the higher the horsepower, the transmission losses become closer to "fixed."
When I used to work with Camaros, (I know this isn't the LS1 forum, but the principles are the same) stock manual cars typically dynoed higher than automatic cars. But when hp levels got in the upper 300s, the same mods from car to car typically showed the same gain on the dyno regardless of transmission type.
When I used to work with Camaros, (I know this isn't the LS1 forum, but the principles are the same) stock manual cars typically dynoed higher than automatic cars. But when hp levels got in the upper 300s, the same mods from car to car typically showed the same gain on the dyno regardless of transmission type.
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