Stillen Headers Dyno Results
10-14-2003, 01:52 PM
#81
Member
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 50
a totally stock maxima should dyno before and then after with the headers. that would be the best way to see if there are any gains.
10-14-2003, 02:30 PM
#82
Originally Posted by str8acura
a totally stock maxima should dyno before and then after with the headers. that would be the best way to see if there are any gains.
10-14-2003, 02:35 PM
#83
Normally I'd agree, however with the eManage there are too many *unknowns* that could potentially skew the results.
Actually, I'd PREFER the "baseline" dyno be done on a car with an intake, high flow cat, and catback, but DEFINITELY not with any piggy-back engine management black boxes.
Actually, I'd PREFER the "baseline" dyno be done on a car with an intake, high flow cat, and catback, but DEFINITELY not with any piggy-back engine management black boxes.
Originally Posted by Quicksilver
A baseline is a baseline...if you have all kinds of mods and dyno it, then add the headers (in addition to the mods) and dyno it, it'll serve the same purpose...
10-14-2003, 06:02 PM
#84
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,279
i dynoed today and lets just say im not happy post more when i have time.
will
will
10-14-2003, 06:13 PM
#86
Old Fuddy Duddy
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 2,712
Originally Posted by IceY2K1
TEASE!!!!!!
WILLSE
WILLSE
10-14-2003, 06:14 PM
#87
Originally Posted by IceY2K1
Normally I'd agree, however with the eManage there are too many *unknowns* that could potentially skew the results.
Actually, I'd PREFER the "baseline" dyno be done on a car with an intake, high flow cat, and catback, but DEFINITELY not with any piggy-back engine management black boxes.
Actually, I'd PREFER the "baseline" dyno be done on a car with an intake, high flow cat, and catback, but DEFINITELY not with any piggy-back engine management black boxes.
I agree that anything that piggybacks with the existing ECU is not the best setup. That's the entire reason I'm spending so much time/money on my turbo setup and going with some kind of stand alone management system (just don't know what)...
10-14-2003, 07:32 PM
#88
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,279
Originally Posted by IceY2K1
TEASE!!!!!!
WILLSE
WILLSECHECK MY THREAD GUYS!!!!!!!
will
10-14-2003, 11:11 PM
#90
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,279
Originally Posted by HitManSE
This is called being lazy...how about 
a link to your thread to keep every1 from having to look for it 
CLICK
a link to your thread to keep every1 from having to look for it CLICK
http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=256034will
10-15-2003, 07:59 AM
#91
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 1,687
The ECU has a bad over-compensating algorithm in the air/fuel mixture.
I'm scheduled to get back on the dyno soon. I'll be tuning the car for regular street driving, then for race driving.
Here's a screen shot from the E-Manage:
E-Manage Screen Shot
Please note that the values listed are not my final values, but they are just an idea of how the unit works.
In the middle portion of the screen, the blue boxes down the left side of the table are where your throttle position numbers go. With the software running in "OFFLINE" mode (not currently connected to the unit), it won't show the throttle position, as the measurements are stored in the actual E-Manage itself, not in the data file. But if it was "ONLINE", then you'd see numbers in those columns.
Here are the audio/video clips of the dyno runs with the headers, WSP B pipe, CarSound Cat, and FlowMaster 60 Series muffler.
WAV Sound Clip 1 (6.4 MB)
WAV Sound Clip 2 (6.2 MB)
WAV Sound Clip 3 (5.5 MB)
WAV Sound Clip 4 (5.4 MB)
MP3 Sound Clip 1 (886 KB)
MP3 Sound Clip 2 (852 KB)
MP3 Sound Clip 3 (773 KB)
MP3 Sound Clip 4 (736 KB)
Video Clip (15.3 MB)
Audio/Video clips courtesy of E55AMG2
I'm scheduled to get back on the dyno soon. I'll be tuning the car for regular street driving, then for race driving.
Here's a screen shot from the E-Manage:
E-Manage Screen Shot
Please note that the values listed are not my final values, but they are just an idea of how the unit works.
In the middle portion of the screen, the blue boxes down the left side of the table are where your throttle position numbers go. With the software running in "OFFLINE" mode (not currently connected to the unit), it won't show the throttle position, as the measurements are stored in the actual E-Manage itself, not in the data file. But if it was "ONLINE", then you'd see numbers in those columns.
Here are the audio/video clips of the dyno runs with the headers, WSP B pipe, CarSound Cat, and FlowMaster 60 Series muffler.
WAV Sound Clip 1 (6.4 MB)
WAV Sound Clip 2 (6.2 MB)
WAV Sound Clip 3 (5.5 MB)
WAV Sound Clip 4 (5.4 MB)
MP3 Sound Clip 1 (886 KB)
MP3 Sound Clip 2 (852 KB)
MP3 Sound Clip 3 (773 KB)
MP3 Sound Clip 4 (736 KB)
Video Clip (15.3 MB)
Audio/Video clips courtesy of E55AMG2
10-15-2003, 09:21 AM
#92
What is "Total Airflow Adj."?
Also, can you put up the same screen shot from your FINAL dyno of 216.8hp/223tq?
Can you "zoom" in on ONLY the area your TPS=100%? In the screen shot example you posted thats 21.3sec-35.5sec..
Also, can you put up the same screen shot from your FINAL dyno of 216.8hp/223tq?
Can you "zoom" in on ONLY the area your TPS=100%? In the screen shot example you posted thats 21.3sec-35.5sec..
10-15-2003, 09:48 AM
#93
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 187
studman,
Gotta tell you, I'm finding this very interesting.
Thanks for the excellent documentation.
Brian
Gotta tell you, I'm finding this very interesting.
Thanks for the excellent documentation.
Brian
10-15-2003, 12:02 PM
#94
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Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 1,687
IceY2K1: The graphical portion of that screenshot is the final run with the headers. If you look, you'll see that the title for that box says headers-15.LGD, where the upper box says headers #14.GSC. The final table is still stored in the E-Manage.
The "Total Airflow Adjustment" is nothing more than a visual indication of the percentage of reduction. It's basically a Real-Time Display of what's in the chart.
Here's the E-Manage Image from the peak run.
As you can see, the TPS won't register 100% for some reason. I've got version 1.20 software running on the E-Manage, and I just received 1.36 today. I'll get it uploaded before my next set of runs on the dyno.
Once it's installed, I'll re-calibrate the TPS setting again.
I put the cursor at the peak RPM reading. That picture is all the further that the software will let me zoom in. I narrowed down the selection to the actual pull, which should match the dyno run.
The "Total Airflow Adjustment" is nothing more than a visual indication of the percentage of reduction. It's basically a Real-Time Display of what's in the chart.
Here's the E-Manage Image from the peak run.
As you can see, the TPS won't register 100% for some reason. I've got version 1.20 software running on the E-Manage, and I just received 1.36 today. I'll get it uploaded before my next set of runs on the dyno.
Once it's installed, I'll re-calibrate the TPS setting again.
I put the cursor at the peak RPM reading. That picture is all the further that the software will let me zoom in. I narrowed down the selection to the actual pull, which should match the dyno run.
10-15-2003, 09:26 PM
#95
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Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 1,687
I am scheduled to re-tune on Saturday morning. I'll also be moving that day, so don't expect the results to be posted until sometime on Sunday. If I get a chance to post them earlier, I will.
The car is running 10920931x better now. It's finally 68° outside and the car pulled like crazy... it was nice shifting into 3rd gear around 80 MPH tonight.
More details later this weekend. (FYI - This was also posted in WILLSE's thread).
The car is running 10920931x better now. It's finally 68° outside and the car pulled like crazy... it was nice shifting into 3rd gear around 80 MPH tonight.
More details later this weekend. (FYI - This was also posted in WILLSE's thread).
10-20-2003, 08:14 AM
#98
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Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 1,687
UPDATE:
Ok, I can't scan the results just yet, as I just moved this weekend and the scanner is still packed up.
After having the plugs replaced and a PC cleaning done, I went back to the dyno to re-tune.
My results are:
Pre-Dyno Peak HP (Run 13): 217.8
Post-Dyno Peak HP (Run 43): 218.9
Pre-Dyno Peak TQ (Run 13): 231.1
Post-Dyno Peak TQ (Run 43): 225.9
As far as the tuning... the car doesn't like 12.5:1. It's much closer to 13.5:1, with a 0.5 variation depending on the RPMs.
The curves are very similar between the before and after runs, but the before runs are just a tad higher than the after. The headers do seem to help out in the upper end, but they sacrifice the lower end slightly.
As far as the non-dyno results, I definitely notice a difference. Before I had them install, I couldn't chirp second gear because of my sticky Yokohoma tires. After the install, I can chirp second gear again. The car's weight is also less, but I don't know exactly how much.
Once I scan the image (in the next few days when I find all my computer cables, etc), I'll edit the top post and let you see the differences for yourself.
I won't make it to the track anytime soon, but I'll get there the first chance I get.
Ok, I can't scan the results just yet, as I just moved this weekend and the scanner is still packed up.
After having the plugs replaced and a PC cleaning done, I went back to the dyno to re-tune.
My results are:
Pre-Dyno Peak HP (Run 13): 217.8
Post-Dyno Peak HP (Run 43): 218.9
Pre-Dyno Peak TQ (Run 13): 231.1
Post-Dyno Peak TQ (Run 43): 225.9
As far as the tuning... the car doesn't like 12.5:1. It's much closer to 13.5:1, with a 0.5 variation depending on the RPMs.
The curves are very similar between the before and after runs, but the before runs are just a tad higher than the after. The headers do seem to help out in the upper end, but they sacrifice the lower end slightly.
As far as the non-dyno results, I definitely notice a difference. Before I had them install, I couldn't chirp second gear because of my sticky Yokohoma tires. After the install, I can chirp second gear again. The car's weight is also less, but I don't know exactly how much.
Once I scan the image (in the next few days when I find all my computer cables, etc), I'll edit the top post and let you see the differences for yourself.
I won't make it to the track anytime soon, but I'll get there the first chance I get.
10-20-2003, 08:22 AM
#99
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Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 1,687
Here a snapshot from the DynoJet RunViewer of the 2 runs. I'll post the actual dyno up when I get it. The RunViewer's numbers are never correct when compared to the actual printed DynoJet results.
10-20-2003, 10:49 AM
#103
Supporting Maxima.org Member
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 908
Originally Posted by blubyu2k2
looks like the ecu will be next on my list if I buy anything at all.
10-20-2003, 10:59 AM
#104
Originally Posted by HitManSE
Holy ****, its definetly louder! 
Has the metallic sound to it, line mine did w/o the resonator.
Well good luck with the track, thats gonna be the true test.
Has the metallic sound to it, line mine did w/o the resonator.Well good luck with the track, thats gonna be the true test.
The car looks and sounds much nicer in person. I had the opportunity to meet STUDMAN this weekend and all I can say about his ride is WOW!
He was kind enough to take me for one HE!! of a ride.
The handling is on a dime, and it does not sound ricer. I was very impressed, espesically his knowledge on tuning/modding/DRIVING. "He is one hell of a driver".
You can tell he has put a lot of time and heart into it.
STUDMAN: Once again thanks for one he!! of a ride. I appriciate you taking some time out your busy weekend schedule for me.
10-20-2003, 11:29 AM
#105
You can get BOTH for CHEAPER withOUT the install hassle.
Stillen Header = $899.99
Cattman Ypipe + TS ECU = $299 + $495 = $794
7100rpm rev-limit! Only downtime without the ECU sucks.
Stillen Header = $899.99
Cattman Ypipe + TS ECU = $299 + $495 = $794
7100rpm rev-limit! Only downtime without the ECU sucks.
Originally Posted by Lumbee1
Either that or Cattman Y-pipe.
10-20-2003, 11:36 AM
#106
Originally Posted by IceY2K1
You can get BOTH for CHEAPER withOUT the install hassle.
Stillen Header = $899.99
Cattman Ypipe + TS ECU = $299 + $495 = $794
7100rpm rev-limit! Only downtime without the ECU sucks.
Stillen Header = $899.99
Cattman Ypipe + TS ECU = $299 + $495 = $794
7100rpm rev-limit! Only downtime without the ECU sucks.
That might be the way to go then...
10-20-2003, 12:12 PM
#107
"might"?
Anyone worried about WARRANTY work should consider this route IMO, since it's much easier to rip off a Y-pipe in a hurry, then headers.
Don't even think about headers and a warranty repair, if you are paying someone to install them.
Anyone worried about WARRANTY work should consider this route IMO, since it's much easier to rip off a Y-pipe in a hurry, then headers.
Don't even think about headers and a warranty repair, if you are paying someone to install them.
Originally Posted by Quicksilver
That might be the way to go then...
10-20-2003, 12:25 PM
#108
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 221
Originally Posted by 2k2MerlotSE
The car looks and sounds much nicer in person. I had the opportunity to meet STUDMAN this weekend and all I can say about his ride is WOW!
He was kind enough to take me for one HE!! of a ride.
The handling is on a dime, and it does not sound ricer. I was very impressed, espesically his knowledge on tuning/modding/DRIVING. "He is one hell of a driver".
You can tell he has put a lot of time and heart into it.
STUDMAN: Once again thanks for one he!! of a ride. I appriciate you taking some time out your busy weekend schedule for me.
He was kind enough to take me for one HE!! of a ride.
The handling is on a dime, and it does not sound ricer. I was very impressed, espesically his knowledge on tuning/modding/DRIVING. "He is one hell of a driver".
You can tell he has put a lot of time and heart into it.
STUDMAN: Once again thanks for one he!! of a ride. I appriciate you taking some time out your busy weekend schedule for me.
10-22-2003, 10:20 PM
#109
Wild at Hurt
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 580
Just a crazy thought, but I have been so stumped as to why the power loss? The stock cast iron manifolds and precats would dampen the power pulses from the exhaust right at the engine. The new headers would take away most of that dampening.
Could this trigger the knock sensor and retard the timing?
A possible explaination as retarded timing would reduce power.
Hope we can solve this because I want headers.
Could this trigger the knock sensor and retard the timing?
A possible explaination as retarded timing would reduce power.
Hope we can solve this because I want headers.
10-23-2003, 02:04 AM
#110
Originally Posted by Mick Max
Just a crazy thought, but I have been so stumped as to why the power loss? The stock cast iron manifolds and precats would dampen the power pulses from the exhaust right at the engine. The new headers would take away most of that dampening.
Could this trigger the knock sensor and retard the timing?
A possible explaination as retarded timing would reduce power.
Hope we can solve this because I want headers.
Could this trigger the knock sensor and retard the timing?
A possible explaination as retarded timing would reduce power.
Hope we can solve this because I want headers.
Yeah this has been brought up already. I don't think it has been completely ruled out but it doesn't seem likely.
10-23-2003, 06:11 AM
#111
Supporting Maxima.org Member
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 1,815
Originally Posted by Mick Max
Just a crazy thought, but I have been so stumped as to why the power loss? The stock cast iron manifolds and precats would dampen the power pulses from the exhaust right at the engine. The new headers would take away most of that dampening.
Could this trigger the knock sensor and retard the timing?
A possible explaination as retarded timing would reduce power.
Hope we can solve this because I want headers.
Could this trigger the knock sensor and retard the timing?
A possible explaination as retarded timing would reduce power.
Hope we can solve this because I want headers.
Justin, do you have an obd2 reader? If not do we know who in the area does? Maybe we could go with Will the next time he goes to Balanced. Having logs of the runs should help diagnose the problem.
10-23-2003, 06:14 AM
#112
Originally Posted by maximaman777
Although it was brought up the people testing haven't looked, or at least posted, at what the timing is doing during their pulls. While studmans charts look fairly normal Will's doesn't, this could be what is causing his huge dip at 4.2k...
10-23-2003, 06:37 AM
#113
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Join Date: May 2002
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 1,815
Originally Posted by SR20DEN
I agree and think someone needs to put this problem in the hands of Technosquare and see what they can do, if anything, with it.
If we could log different parameters during different pulls. By keeping the things monitered to like 3 should keep the latency low. rpm, timing & MAF are the main things to look at. But we could switch it up during different runs. This data can be given to Stillen & TS.
Also during Will's pulls they kept losing the signal from the coils, out of 6 or 8 runs and switching coils for most of them they only got 2 clean charts.
10-23-2003, 07:11 AM
#114
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Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 1,687
When Will dyno's his car again, have them turn the the RPM signal reader around (upside down) on the same plug. I had the same problem with mine, and I asked out of curiosity if they would flip it over. That keeps the RPM reader accurate.
For the dyno shop, they should insert the plug UNDER the wire, then around - NOT OVER the wire, then around. The shop should know what to do.
As far as my timing, I am currently advanced to +17° BTDC. When I hooked up the scanner to the car (on the 2nd dyno - after the plugs were changed), I was still at +17° BTDC. Not sure if Will's car is retarding the timing, but mine wasn't.
For the dyno shop, they should insert the plug UNDER the wire, then around - NOT OVER the wire, then around. The shop should know what to do.
As far as my timing, I am currently advanced to +17° BTDC. When I hooked up the scanner to the car (on the 2nd dyno - after the plugs were changed), I was still at +17° BTDC. Not sure if Will's car is retarding the timing, but mine wasn't.
10-23-2003, 08:26 AM
#115
Supporting Maxima.org Member
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 1,815
Is this guy an org member?
http://www.cardomain.com/id/monismo
http://www.cardomain.com/id/monismo
10-23-2003, 04:35 PM
#116
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,279
STUDMAN we gots to talk. PM me when u can or hit me up on AIM talked to stillen and i gots some info.
will
will
10-23-2003, 05:34 PM
#117
This altima guy is alluding to the fact they made some good hp with the hotshot headers. He didn't give the exact numbers yet.
Link
http://www.altimas.net/forum/showthr...hreadid=127935
Link
http://www.altimas.net/forum/showthr...hreadid=127935
10-28-2003, 06:31 PM
#118
For anyone who care it looks like the Hotshot headers for the Altima made 14 hp and 6 lbs torque over an already fully modified exhaust.
Here's the link
http://www.altimas.net/forum/showthr...hreadid=128556
Here's the link
http://www.altimas.net/forum/showthr...hreadid=128556
10-28-2003, 06:35 PM
#119
Originally Posted by maximaman777
Although it was brought up the people testing haven't looked, or at least posted, at what the timing is doing during their pulls. While studmans charts look fairly normal Will's doesn't, this could be what is causing his huge dip at 4.2k... I find it quite interesting that the dips happen with-in 400-500 rpms of the secondary opening up.
Justin, do you have an obd2 reader? If not do we know who in the area does? Maybe we could go with Will the next time he goes to Balanced. Having logs of the runs should help diagnose the problem.
Justin, do you have an obd2 reader? If not do we know who in the area does? Maybe we could go with Will the next time he goes to Balanced. Having logs of the runs should help diagnose the problem.
****** a$$hats...
11-17-2003, 11:16 AM
#120
Please post all replies here:
http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=264127
http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=264127
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