I bought a 2002 new in Nov 02 and ordered it with a limited slip differential. Maybe it's just the tires but I seem to spin them a lot, and it's not an issue of experience or skill. What I am hoping for is a definitive way to tell if the LSD is actually installed. Not that I don't trust my local dealer but ...

Thanks,
Flyer

 

If you don't see a (slip) light for the LSD when the other dash lights come on, after turning the ignition on, you don't have it. Also, it's only on the 6 speed manual tranny.

 

That's what I thought. No indicator light, and too much slipping. The manual says the LSD is standard on the SE 6-spd with late availability. That's what I have, but no LSD. I specified it, and questioned the dealer to ensure it was there. Promises, promises ... lies, lies, lies

Time for a fight.

Thanks for your help.

 

(slip) light for the LSD????

my 2k3 does not have one....

in any case do you have rubber pedels or do you have the metal pedals with holes? HLSDs maximas have this. I also seem to recall an H in the transaxle code...can't find the reference yet...

 

Ya, I have the metal pedals with the holes. When you say the transaxle code, any idea where I would locate that? Presumably stamped on the transaxle itself.

Thanks,
Flyer

 

I have one in my '03, I have no idea what charliekilo3 is talking about with a light, there is none.

One of the ways to tell if you have HLSD is to see if you have any torque steer when you get on it (without spin of course). If you don't have any torgue steer, you are seeing the effects of HLSD.

HLSD doesn't help too much in other situations I've found. HLSD seems to require a lot more torque to the wheels before it starts to lock up and split power well. In snow or wet, I've found only one tire gets power if the tire can slip easy. But if it's sticky and torque can get to the pavement, the LSD will lock up better. I really notice it when I'm at a full stop, and start out with my wheel cut. Say I'm making a left, I can here the left tire breaking loose a bit.

There are many different forms of limited slip diffs. We have the "helical" version hence HLSD. Do a google search on Helical Limited Slip Differentials for a better explanation.

Here's a good explanation I found, it's a bit indirect but a good read on how HLSDs work. http://www.globalwest.net/torsen_tra...fferential.htm

 

Drilled metal pedals = HLSD.

You can double check the transaxle code on the firewall of the engine bay. If the transaxle code has a "H" in it, you have the HLSD.

 

I got that info from the owner's manual. It says that the light for your LSD (slip light) will illuminate when you turn on your ignition switch. I have an auto w/o Traction control and I was trying to help the man out.

 

Why not just look at the window sticker? If HLSD is listed, then you have it.

 

Why don't you just do a burnout and see if both wheels leave tread marks.. Then you got lsd

 

Traction control and LSDs are completely different.

 

Flyer,

According to Nissan Canada, if your car had a builld date of Feb/02 or later and it was a 6 speed, it had LSD for sure. Call Nissan Canada and give them your VIN number. They can tell you what your build date was.

Reza,

 

there was at least one reported case of an early production 2002 6-speed that was bought with HLSD (i.e. on the window sticker) and it did not have HLSD.

Oh, and I have HLSD and still have torque steer. Not as bad as with out it, but its still there.

 

I know that.

 

Arghhhh.
Do you have a link or anything to this info?

I've got HLSD (supposedly) but I have never been at all impressed with it. Still plenty of torque steer, and the car is a bear to control when accelerating through a turn from a dead stop (left turn from a stop sign).
Does anyone know what to physically look for to confirm the presence of HLSD in the car?

-hlsd (I think)

 

I went to the local Nissan dealer this morning and the opinion of the service guy was that the HLSD is not in my car. His reasoning was that the SLIP light did not come on when the key was first turned on, and there is no shut off switch. I was a bit surprised about the shut off switch because I didn't think there should be one. I know there is one for traction control on an automatic and maybe that's what he was thinking of. Or maybe there really is one.

Regardless, he checked my VIN with Nissan Canada and their records showed that I do have HLSD. So, now the dealership is contacting Nissan Canada to determine what they should be doing. Clearly my car is supposed to have it, but apparently doesn't.

Fun fun fun

 

I second that.
I too had the similar situation were it seems like I had bald tires when driving in the snow and slippery roads this past winter. Our stock tires are NOT suitable for our winter driving at all.
From what I understand (I could be wrong) that the LSD's primary function is ONLY for turning (compensating inside/out tire turns) and not for getting proper traction (Traction control) on slippery roads.
We need to get new tires before next winter.

 

THERE IS NO LIGHT FOR LIMITED SLIP DIFFS!!!!!!!!!!!!

There's no way to have a light for a limited slip diff!!!!!!! The slip light is for traction control which is completely different from a limited slip diff and only available on automatics. OTOH, limited slip diffs are only available on manual trans.

It's imposible to have traction control on a manual trans. Traction control uses a computer and the braking system to control spin. That's why you can have a switch to turn it off. That's also why TC has a "slip light", which tells you when the computer has detected slip and is apllying the brakes to help control it.

A limited slip differential is a diff with special gears and/or clutches in it to control torque bias. There wouldn't be any switch for this because there is nothing to switch on or off.

oh, and charliekilo3, please buy a clue and stop misleading this guy.

 

HLSD has nothing to do with turning. It controls torque bias, or how torque is split between the wheels. If anything, LSDs hurt control in turns which is an undesireable side effect.

 

I have HLSD and have absolutely no torque steer. I can take my hands off the wheel when I punch it and the car will go straight.

 

I don't need to buy a clue now since you gave them to me for free All mighty Grand Master of the Max. I misread the info and I'm sorry if I mislead the original poster of this thread. It seems like you pretty much have it covered now. Thanks for the enlightenment. I'm outta here like last week.

 

The identification for the engine and transmission is located under the hood on the firewall in the form of a thin aluminum plate. The engine code will read : VQ35(DE)

If you have a 6 speed with an open diff the code will be: RS6F51A

A as in open diff

If you have a 6 speed with a Helical Limitd slip Differential the code will read RS6F51H

H H as in Helical.

 

That's it... This should be stickied...FAQ

 

worse comes to worse, just jack up the front of the car and spin one wheel. If the other doesn't spin along with the first within a couple of turns, you have a open differential

 

I wish I had HLSD

 

itdood,

In addition to the Maxi, I also have a 01 BMW 320i which is a 5 speed manual and has traction control. So it is possible to have traction control with a manual tranny.

 

Another test for HLSD...
I found this out when I got a slow leak from a puncture.

If one tire is low on air, when you accelerate moderately you will feel a pull in the steering wheel.. sort of like torque steer, but at small throttle openings.
Unlike actual torque steer it tends to get worse in higher gears. This happens with HLSD because the torque differential between the wheels increases as the speed differential increases (up to the torque-multiplying limit of the diff.) However you will feel little or nothing when maintaining speed; you have to be accelerating moderately to generate enough torque in the first place.

If you want to deflate one of the front tires to about 15 psi you too can experience this!

This won't happen with a regular diff because that will keep the torque in both driveshafts the same regardless of speed differential.

 

I don't have HLSD and have no torque-steer whatsoever.

 

I shoulda been more clear, I meant impossible to get TC on the Max MT. It wasn't offered as an option. I actually wanted to get TC instead of the HLSD, all I really wanted was something better for the snow, and unfortuantely couldn't get it. HLSD doesn't help with the snow at all.

I'm pretty sure that TC on a MT doesn't use the braking system, since the motor is locked to the wheels. TC on a MT car uses the ABS to detect slip but then it retards timing or cuts fuel to the engine instead of applying the brake to the wheel that is slipping. The reason for that is because there are certain conditions that would use enough braking to stall the motor (i.e. lotta slip in a high gear). IMHO, that makes it a lot less effective than TC in an automatic. TC in an auto can apply the brakes because it won't stall the motor, and that in turn will make the diff apply power to the wheel that can get traction. I've also read a lot of bad reviews for TC systems in MT cars. I guess it's because of those limitations that nissan didn't offer it on 6spds.

 

Two wheel drive is still better than one wheel drive even in the snow.

 

Well, you're simply not driving fast enough. I even have significant torque steer in first gear under hard acceleration.

 

I'm pretty sure that HLSD doesn't provide two wheel drive in the snow. That's my expereince, I've had only 1 tire spin in snow even though on dry pavement, both will spin. Only one wheel will get power because there isn't enough tractive force to make the helical gears lock up with the clutchs. That's the very nature of HLSD.

HLSD needs more tractive force to start biasing torque than other forms of LSDs. In other words, the tires need to be griping really well in order to force the helical gears out towards the clutch. That tractive force can be manipulated by the diff design, and in an effort to make it streetable and less prone to wear, I'm sure Nissan has this setup to only bias torque in really dry conditions.

 

I have HLSD and have driven it in Rain/SLeet/Ice/Snow what have you. Trust me... it works.

 

Actually, I find the traction control in my BMW quite effective and it does use braking force:

ASC + T is integrated into the Antilock Braking System (ABS). To a large extent ASC + T functions like ABS in reverse.

As with all of their control firmware, BMW is very secretive about the details of the specific control algorithms that this system uses. I don't like this, but I really can't blame them for trying to protect some of their trade secrets.

The description I can give comes from information I have read about about braking and traction control systems in general, as well as some information that BMW publishes. Also, there are a number of things that I have noticed by experimenting with this system and comparing it to other cars that reveal addition clues to what's going on.

I'm going to do this in two posts. For the first post, I'm going to go over the ABS system. It's necessary to understand ABS in order to examine ASC + T.

Like most materials, the rubber on a tire has the greatest friction (traction) on pavement when it isn't sliding. Remember that when the tire is rolling, the contact patch on the ground is stationary. When a tire is skidding, the contact patch is sliding. To achieve maximum braking (or acceleration or cornering) force, it's necessary to keep the contact patch from sliding.

 

Sorry, I have to completely disagree with you. HLSDs don't have pre-load springs like other versions of LSDs. When there isn't enough of a load on an axel (i.e. spinning on snow or ice), a HLSD will behave much like an open diff.

I've driven my Max (6 speed HLSD) in tons of snow and ice here in the NE, when I've gotten it stuck, only one tire would get power. You can dismiss what I have to say if you want, but I'm telling ya, Nissan's version of a HLSD needs a lot of tractive force before it will bias torque. In ice and snow, the tires simply don't get enough traction to produe the kind of tractive force needed to force the helicals onto the clutch.

If you don't beleive me, read this http://www.globalwest.net/torsen_tra...fferential.htm

Nissan's HLSD simply was not designed for slippery-condition traction control. Their only intention was to minimize torque steer. If you look at different versions and desgins of LSDs, the one Nissan put in the max is about at close to open as you could get. That makes it streetable and adds longevtiy to it, hence less warranty work for them.

Granted there are still some instances when I did get both tires to spin as I'm sure you did. My only point is, that wasn't the intent of the design so the behavior is going to vary depending on the conditions.

 

You picked the wrong guy to argue with on this, he knows this tranny back to front, you are about to get

So sad is your demise going to be

 

Everyone knows this. I have pictures of mine sitting on my workbench. Which is the second time I have seen it outside of the tranny.

I was the first one to publish info over a year ago when I noticed on a lift this thing behaves like an open diff. And I was part of the Stereodude thread where we all came to the conclusion that the HLSD requires a certain amount of torque on both axles i order to lock up.

Obviously your experiences differ from mine. If i let the clutch out slow enough at idle I can make one tire spin just as you describe. However I have no problem making the thing lock and spin both tires in deep snow and ice.

It doesn't do all that much for torque steer. It mainly works the best for powering around sharp corners where you would normally get the one wheel wonder. And again, everyone knows the HLSD isn't the best option for extreme slippery conditions although if use right it can be made to work when you need it.

First you completely dissagreed and now you do? Which one is it?

 

I agree with you on every point and props for installing one on a non-HLSD(loved that thread). I wish I had it because I drove a few 02-03s with it and the advantage in pulling out of turns and turning from a stop is quite noticeable. I also used to have a 93 Altima with VLSD and a 95 altima without it and it definitely made a difference with bad weather traction.

In dry conditions, however, I didn't think it made any difference in pulling away in a straight line in my altimas or the 02-03 max-good tires were far more important. In other words, I don't think someone with HLSD will beat me in a drag race, assuming equal driving skills and good weather. As it was explained to me(and I"m NOT a mechanic, so bare with me), open diffs have an equal 50/50 torque split until one tire loses traction at which point the tire with less traction gets all the torque, hence the advantage of HLSD. Thus traction advantages in dry conditions will be neglible if any for HLSD cars going in a straight line assuming the non-HLSD feathers the clutch and accelerator well. Not starting a war at all, but would like your thoughts on my thoughts-especially racing in a straight line.

Thanks.

 

The disagreement is on how effective HLSD is for slippery conditions. I get the impression that you feel it's very effective. I don't feel the same way. You even said that you only get power to one tire if you let the clutch out slow. I must need to dump the clutch in that siutation? How do you get the axels locked in extremely slippery conditions?

I recall reading in Nissan marketing literature that the key benefit they listed for the HLSD was that it reduced torque steer. Unfortunately I can't back that up with a source.

As for torque steer for FWDs, why do most vendors tout that as one of the key benefits for LSDs? check out this site: http://www.mmrusa.com/phantom1.htm

ANother thing about torque steer, I have another car with TONS of it. It's a '95 Talon TSi, turbo with some mods. Since it's FWD I've kept the power down around where the max is. That car is all OVER the place when I'm on it. I can actually feel power change axels on that car as it pulls from one side to the other and it's violent. My Maxima with the HLSD has about 5-10% of the torque steer I feel in the Talon.

The cornering thing is where HLSDs are supposed to be really good because they are *supposed* to get power to the outer tire, where all the weight is, instead of the inner tire where weight is offloading (hence loosing traction).

My only other experience with Diffs was on a car I used to bracket race. I went through 5 rear diffs on my 70 chevelle. I used clutched POSIs with preload spings the size of grapefruits, to full lockers. I also helped a guy build a '32 ford coupe with a blown 426 Hemi and narrowed ford 9". I actually did all the pinion adjustments on that build. I've rebuilt enough to know how they work too.

Again, please let me know how to get the axels locked in slippery conditions because I honestly haven't figured that out. Especially if one tire is on dry pavement and the other is on ice. I actually messed aroud in a situation like that and even a clutch dump didn't help.

 

OMFG, Could you be more dramatic?

We're having a civil discussion.

I usually only see this level of MeloDrama when one of the girls at work is PMSing....