Although the group deal was delayed at the dyno place becuase there were some people from out of town that didnt want to drive in the snow I went ahead anyway and dynoed the TS ECU with an otherwise stock max excluding the OBX catback exhaust. I will try to get the dyno runs scanned as quickly as possible but it could be up to a week or two.
I have some really good news and some bad(ish) news about the ECU. First the good news. The ECU give me the gains that they claimed and more. To be exact I had a peak gain of 16.1hp/20.6tq. The bad news is... this may look great as is but that big gain does not last long nor is it in a spot to make big hp. That big gain is below the rpm range which the next gear falls when you upshift at redline (well for 6spds anyway this actually might be great for ATs) Breif rundown gains through the rpm range (comparing best OBX dyno vs best OBX+ECU dyno).
2700-3400 Gains of ~5hp and ~9tq
3400-3800 >5hp gain
Specific gains from 3800-4500 (whp/wtq):
3800 4.4/6.0
3900 16.1/20.6 (nice number but i wish the big gain would have lasted longer. It does make for a nice jerk when you hit hte VIAS switchover... you will really feel this)
4000 14.6/19.1
4100 12.8/16.4
4200 11.7/14.8
4300 7.6/9.3
4400 8.1/9.7
4500 6.2/7.3
4600-5000 Insignificant gains (>5whp). I actually lost a little over 1whp/1wtq at 4800 on the 3rd run but the 2nd run does not show this loss. I guess the ECU pulled timing here for some reason.
Specific gains from 5100-5500 (another spot of significant gain again VERY short) only whp listed... the tq gain is obviously very similar because of the rpms its at.
5100 6.3
5200 10.7
5300 9.3
5400 11.1
5500 5.9
5600-5900 >5whp
6000-6200 ~6hp ~5tq
I have no further comparison becuase my earlier dynos ended there. The second run I did maintained 200+whp frrom 4700 to 6800rpm (ending rpm).
218.8 peak whp @ 5200rpm
239.8 peak wtq @ 4200rpm

The A/F ratio stayed between 14.1 and 14.3 throughout the rpm band in each run. I did notice a strong ammonia/sulfur smell when I took it up past the stock rev limiter. I have no idea what it means. My initial concern was that it was running very rich, but that is apparently not the issue. Again I will try to get the scans done ASAP. Hopefully this along with the other dynos has helped some of you out in deciding about the TS ECU. More details may be helpful.
EDIT: This dyno was done at the same dyno I used for my previous two dynos.
EDIT2: I will be dynoing the coathanger GAB+K&N in about 2-3 weeks also.

 

are you 6MT or 4AT?

 

hes 6spd =)

 

14 is ok number but u want it around 13-12 AF

 

i knew it there are gains dont doubt the ts ecu. i will dyno soon

 

my gains must have gotten lost in the mail

 

Did you have a different program put in your ECU Blubyu2k2? Send your dyno runs to TS they may try something different and get the gains you want. Of course when I looked at the dyno graphs I was disappointed because I only saw two areas of gain. When I post them you will see. When I saw the raw numbers it made me feel a little better. I am still not sure I would have payed $500+shipping both ways for these gains. If it were dropped about $100 I would say go for it. I am gonna see if TS has any info for me when I send them the dyno graphs. My A/F seems to be near stock (I think 14.6 is what they are normally set at.) and I could see some more gains by richening it up a littel past 3000rpm to I beleive the optimal for power 12.6. If they could extend that giant gain into my useable rpm range I would feel much better about this product. With the information that they gave on the website I was thinking there would be more gains in the upper rpms than there were.

 

Comparing my graphs to the ones on the TS website. They look identical till about 4400rpm. After that it doesnt make near the gains that are shown in TS's dyno. They of course had an intake on their test car while I had the stock setup. While it could possibly be the difference, I am skeptical of that. I should be able to get teh scans done today. Then I will email TS and then call them and see what they have to say.

 

Sounds like a good plan, however didn't TS show ABNORMALLY high gains with the simple addition of an INJEN intake?

I'll go look, but that's what I remember.

 

Ice, cool man I appreciate you looking into it for me.

Ok I have the scans. Here they are:
Dyno graphs of my modding progress (stock [3], OBX catback [6], ECU [9])
RUN 3, 6, & 9 HP ONLY
RUN 3, 6, & 9 TQ ONLY

RUN 7 GRAPH

RUN 7 RAW NUMBERS

RUN 8 GRAPH

RUN 8 RAW NUMBERS

RUN 9 GRAPH

RUN 9 RAW NUMBERS(contains full comparison to run 6)

Click here for graphs of runs 1-6 and raw numbers of runs 3 and 6

Now take a look at the dyno from the TS websiteTS dyno and compare it to the graph of run 3, 6, & 9. It looks very close up to 4400 or 4500rpm then the torque drops pretty quickly with a bump between 5000 and 5500rpm. Also they say they put the A/F ratio at 12.6 where mines show ~14.2. I have heard that the tail pipe A/F sensors are inaccurate but could it be THAT inaccurate? The questions I have are "where is the rest of my top end gains?" and "Why is my A/F so high and will reducing it increase power?. Could the A/F ratio be the entire problem? Also the TS dyno shows the torque increase at 2700-3500 being large than the one beginning at 3900 where as mine shows the opposite.

 

Overall your numbers look pretty good. My concern is that all the numbers appear to be standard and not SAE corrected. Doesn't this cause a problem when comparing dyno runs on different days?

 

Would it? I thought the dyno corrected for ambient conditions automatically. If not then I can get the files from the dyno place and use runviewer to convert it from STD to SAE. How do my numbers look good? I have a torque peak gain of 8.8 and a HP peak gain of 3.4 whereas the TS dyno shows a torque peak gain of 15.9 and a HP peak gain of 11.7. Granted I have a lot of mid range gain and a decent gain in the 5000-5500rpm region but there is little else. My gains under the curve seem to be about half what their dyno says I should get.

 

KRmaxima, when do you plan on dynoing? What power mods do you have? Yes there are gains but I am dont believe the gains I have are worth $500+shipping both ways.

 

I agree...SAE correction is necessary especially that far apart.

Also, auto or manual?

 

The best AFR that I saw when tuning was like a 13.8. I managed to gain some serious area under the curve by correcting the TS settings slightly.

 

yea I'd say after looking at the graphs you're running slightly lean but nothing dangerous. I'd keep an ear out for detonation when it gets hot again though.

 

Manual. I will get the files when I head back to the dyno shop in a week or two... then convert them. Hopefullly it will make me feel better.

 

Me or Bgates??

 

Have you found anything yet? My dyno is set for the weekend. I will get the files and convert them all to SAE and post them. Hopefully the addition of the intake solves the problem.

 

sorry just now came back across this thread. I meant Bgates.

 

Nope, but I'm pretty sure it was in the original thread by Chestbo or on TS website originally.

If you can do the PS-->HP conversion of the dynos on the TS website, you'll see, I think.

IIRC, it was like 20+ whp just by the additon of an INJEN.

 

Hmmm...his A/Fs look much like what JWT does with their 4th gen ECUs. A 14:1 A/F is great from 2000-5000rpms, but after that they should be dialing back to around to the mid to lower 13:1 range. JWT does the same thing by keeping the A/F in the 14:1 range across the whole board. The stock ECUs typically drop the A/F into the mid 12:1 range in the upper rpms. I have the JWT ECU and I recently pulled my plugs and noticed every single one of them exhibited signs of running lean. They all had a whiteish color to them suggesting lots of heat. Prior to the ECU, my plugs never exhibited signs of running lean.

I wish there was a way to push the A/F back after 5000rpms or so. What I've noticed with the ECU is that I'm definetely quicker, but the car is far more prone to heat soak. If I run on a hot motor, my ETs and MPHs can fall into the high 14.5s and 14.6s@95mph. If I let the motor cool off for 30-45 minutes then it's consistent 14.4s@98mph. My Max never use to be this touchy to heat. My belief is that that the lean A/F up top is introducing detonation (I can't hear anything) which in turn wakes up the knock sensor which then pushes back the ignition advance and then my car starts getting slow.


Dave

 

Dave,

Get an AFC or PSC1 for $200-$300?

Also, OEM ECUs purposely richen up the mixture in the upper RPM/high load range after some amount of time typically to keep the plug tip cool for fear of pre-ignition.

I agree...even NA guys should fatten up the AFR for the last 500-1000rpm, especially if you keep the pedal mashed for long periods of time like top-speed runs, etc..

 

Okay so on the TS website the two dynos shown for the maxima are the ones you are talking about? The first one (Dyno pic) is done on a Bosch dyno and claims a gain of ~20hp at the crank with only an HKS muffler? I find that pretty spectacular. After printing it out and analyzing it (it looks like it has a extra run in the 5th gear which I did not use) I found it has at peak 210(+/-)2 PS or, using a conversion factor (found at this link http://www.auto-report.net/index.html?conversion.html) of 1.013869PS=1HP SAE, 207.1(+/-)2hp SAE. The dyno with the HKS muffler peaks at what appears to be 220(+/-)2PS or 217.0hp SAE. They must have took the max gain of ~20hp from around the 100mph mark becuase 10whp is about 11.8 crank HP using a 15% drive train loss factor. Now one would think that a catback system would free up more power than just a muffler. However this shows a gain of about 10whp going from a stock car with the ECU to a car with the ECU and HKS muffler. My dynos show that from a completely stock car to an OBX catback and ECU I gain 9.4whp. It would be nice to see exactly the gain a stock car gets when it gets the TS ECU but all I can do right now is speculate and say it doesnt gain much at peak maybe 2-5hp. Considering my modifications at the time of the dyno this is the dyno I should be comparing my results to. Here my results are similar but I would have assumed that the catback would have gained more. Also I could be even further behind if the ECU alone gives any power. Given my gestimate above I am behind atleast 2.6hp and should have gained atleast a few more beyond that.

2nd dyno: Dyno 2 This one they state has "an Injen Intake, Modify exhaust, and Technosquare ECU Upgrade". They give no clues as to what the baseline is that makes 212.9hp and 221.4tq SAE. Given the description of the modifications it could be assumed that this dyno is a continuance of the first dyno with the addition of an INJEN intake. However we dont exactly know what a "Modify exhaust" is and the discrepancy between the calculated 217.0 and the 212.9hp is troubling. This could of course mean that the conversion number I used was wrong or it could possibly mean that they are using a completely different 2002-2003 maxima. This one shows a gain at peak of 12.2whp and 15.9wtq. This is odd becuase most of hte dynos I have seen where they add an intake of some kind there really isnt that much gain at peak in the tq (2-3) but about a 7-10 gain at peak for hp.

Are you refering to the first dyno or the second dyno? Or am I missing another one?

 

Alright man...you owe me on this one. NOT easy to find in a 21-page thread :

Dyno(SAME as #2 above):


Post:
http://forums.maxima.org/showpost.ph...&postcount=197

Original thread it came from in ALL its 21-pages of glory:
http://forums.maxima.org/showthread....1&page=7&pp=30

 

Thank you for the information IceY2k1. I sincerely appreciate the effort you put into find that for me. Hopefully this is the kind of gains I see when I go to the dyno this weekend with my K&N coathanger GAB. Then again with my AFR being what it is I am expecting to see less and the butt dyno is agreeing.

 

bgates1654,

It wasn't that hard, but thanks anyways.

I hope you can figure out what TS needs to do to give you the gains you should see.

Good luck~!

 

Coathanger GABs arent they just nice Can't wait to see your dynos.

 

Dynoed today. 227.4hp 243.3tq (STD). Will post more details later. I am happy with the TS ECU Will translate to SAE later.

 

Im taking it that you are a 6spd, right?

 

Nice numbers Im going to take a shot and say the SAE numbers are 222whp and 236tq

 

Okay my SAE corrected numbers are:
Stock: 205.7whp/222.6wtq
OBX catback: 211.4whp/225.9wtq
OBX+TS ECU: 213.9whp/234.1wtq
OBX+GAB+ECU: 223.0whp/237.2wtq

I will get a link to the runviewer files in a bit.

 

http://www.frontliner.us/CSA/CSA/bry...ff/DYNORUN.001
Replace 001 with 002-012 to DL the other runs.

For some reason the addition of the GAB has put the AFR into exactly what they said it should be. From 3400-5200 it stays in the 13.5-13.2 range. From 5300 to 6800 it stays in the 12.7-13.1 range. I would have figured it would have leaned it out more but I guess the ECU compensated for it. I would have liked to se more gains out of it but I am content with what I got. Now I just got to decide on the next mods I want to get. Y-pipe or headers? To UDP or not to UDP? What other power mods are there? I am anxiously awaiting for the ST shifter to come out.

 

All the date info was overwritten.

Can you group the runs together/date them and give each a list of mods?

I think I've got it figured out by looking at the temp/pressure, but I'd like you to explain which are which.

Thanks.

 

1)Looking at #6(OBX) vs. #8(OBX+TS ECU), you gained a little in spots like 2800-3500, 5100-5600, and some decent gains from 3850-4600(VIAS switchover?).

2)Looking at #8(OBX+TS) and #12(OBX+TS+GAB), if correct, really shows how restrictive the stock airbox is ABOVE 4200rpm and that you need that intake to get near the gains TS is getting. You gained a little from 3200-3850 also.

The OBX catback added 6whp/3wtq, then the TS ECU 0.5whp/8wtq, finally the GAB added ~11whp/3.5wtq, so for the three mods you gained roughly 17whp and 15wtq.

 

HS HEADERS!!!!!

 

Looks like you figured it out already, but for everyone else:
Run003 Stock: 205.7whp/222.6wtq 001-003 (8/5/03)
Run006 OBX catback: 211.4whp/225.9wtq 004-006 (8/5/03)
Run009 OBX+TS ECU: 213.9whp/234.1wtq 007-009 (4/4/04)
Run012 OBX+GAB+ECU: 223.0whp/237.2wtq 010-012 (4/17/04)

With the catback I had some minor gains throughout the powerband (~5 wtq). The ECU was able to give much more low/mid range torque with the OBX than with the stock ECU. It even gave a decent blip 4800-5600 range. The addition of the GAB gave me the rest of what I was looking for on the top end. The dynojet dyno shown on the TS website I beleive has the car with only the bigger exhaust as the baseline and the higher one showing the addition of the ECU and the INJEN intake. There they made 12whp/16wtq. Comparing my 012 run to my 006 I gained 12whp/12wtq which is similar to what they gained. It could be that the INJEN provides a little better flow in the mid range giving that extra torque but there really are too many variables to know for sure. Not bad though for only the cost of a K&N panel filter and a coathanger (and the ECU of course).

I will try and get the raw numbers scanned for runs 010-012 for reference/comparison. Might as well keep it consistant I beleive my next mod will be a UDP, which from what I understand has already been dynoed on a 3.5L maxima and gave 7-10hp or something like that. If that is tru then it is a hell of a deal at $120 for the pulley and the belt(s?).

 

For some reason Run008 isn't complete when I view it, so it gives a peak of 208.74/187.01.

7-10whp from an UDP? Got link?

Get the HS Headers and it will be a whole new animal vs. the UDP, which will be hard to feel but you'll be faster and dyno a little higher.

 

Hmm... try viewing it with the x-axis as speed. Then you could try going back to engine speed and pick the gear ratio thats closest to 54.32. If that doesnt work I will re-UL them to make sure that if anything has happened to them it will be rectified.
I would love to get the HS headers right now but money is tight right now. I will have to wait a couple of months before I can save up enough for the headers and dyno. The UDP should be able to appease my mod bug within a month or so. Plus I want to try to stay on the downlow with mods right now becuase I still have a lot of my waranty left and wouldnt like to lose out on the coverage. The only mod I have right now that would cuase problems is the ECU and its kind of a stealth mod in which there is a small chance of them finding out. The headers are much more blantant. I talked to the servicec dept of one of the nissan dealers around here and they said headers and y-pipe would do the same thing to my waranty. So in that respect I should just get the headers. However I want to give it a while. If anything should break it should happen before 30k miles so given that I have another 11k to go.

Oh yeah... no link on the UDP dyno... jsut hearsay.

 

Wow~! Cool trick...that worked.

That makes sense on the warranty. I'm in the same boat, but getting impatient.