Over the past few months, we've all read the warped rotor threads as they come and go. My rotors are toast so I've been looking and looking for relatively priced alternatives so that I can increase in stopping and at the same time eliminating warpage.

According to irish, the Blehm BBK is the way to go, however my concern is the overhang of the brake pad( due to the increase in the size of the rotor). Are there adverse effects to this? I remember Matt had posted some AutoCad-looking drawings about this but can't find them anymore.

Also big rotors -> better cooling, but doesn't that add more rotational weight? I mean the SE 17's are heavy enough. Is it this that noticeable?

Do you think it's worth getting 04 Slotted Rotors?

or should I just forget the BBK and get Brembo slots?

Thanks for the help....

 

I have the kit and can help answer some of these questions.

1) the overhang is minute. But there IS overhang. So far I cannot determine any ill effects to this. Possible scenarios will be a squeeking pad, or possible early retirement of the pad.

2) Yes bigger rotors are more rotational/unsprung weight. I got the FULL BBK (Z calipers and SS lines). I think the heaver rotor didnt effect as much due to the lighter calipers. But it was not noticable to me.

3) Depends on what you are looking for. An aggresive pad with SS lines will give you good solid braking...but I have been seeing that this does not alleviate the warping. People are complaining about after markets (not-cryo treated) rotors warping also. Make sure if you get drilled/slotted rotors is that someone in your area will turn them down if you need it.

4) Cost is a determining factor. Matt know has a front and REAR BBK. Go visit this site BlehmCo Brake Kits for the current pricing on the front. The rear prices have yet to be determined.

From "MY" point of view...the upgrade to the front BBK was well worth what I spent. I am also going to do the rear, as long as the pricing fits my budget. Check this .ORG thread for the rears. Remember they are TWO DIFFERENT kits.

If money is a concernt...BBK is not the way to go.

 

I'm experiencing some early signs of warpage on my 2k4 rotors with the BlehmCo BBK.

If it becomes bad enough, I'll see if there's something else possibly causing the warpage (stuck caliper, etc... can't tell very well until the calipers are off and the pads removed), but if it's the same old sh*t as before, I'll probably turn the rotors once... and eventually replace them with cryo-treated 2k4 rotors to see if those work any better.

My opinion is that, even if the BlehmCo BBK continues to cause warpage, I still don't regret getting it for 2 reasons-
1. The further outer diameter of the pads as a result of using the larger 2k4 rotors has improved brake torque... I can feel it. Makes me feel more confident behind the wheel.
2. 2k4 rotors are thicker, so theoretically you could turn them more than OEM rotors before their tendency to warp increases to the point where you're turning them too often.

I wanna try the cryo-treated rotors after I'm through with these (which, BTW, are Nissan OEM 2k4 rotors bought through DAVEB) to see if they really do make the difference. This is, of course, barring that I find anything else that could have caused it (stuck caliper, etc... anyone have a huge list of possible causes for rotor warpage?)

 

Actually, in addition to that, I might consider replacing both front calipers too. Advance Auto has Cardone-brand front calipers for ~$71/piece (+$35 core), and I used that brand when I replaced one of my rear calipers this past winter (stuck parking brake, cable was bad and the caliper seemed bad)

This will most likely happen the next time I turn them... turning rotors at NAPA cost $20 for 2 rotors. Calipers will be ~$140-150. IMHO it's a worthwhile gamble, because frozen rotors will cost me around $200, and if the calipers are bad, the frozen rotors will warp anyway. This will also give me an excuse to flush my brake fluid.

 

spirilis

Let me know if you find caliper issues. I am using the Z brakes on mine and dont have problems so far [knocks on wood]. I am assuming you still have OEM calipers instead of Z calipers.

In discussions with Matt, it seems that the only way to eliminate the warppage was to increase the pad surface ares. So far I seem ok. I guess only time will tell.....

 

yeah...

I *might* have noticed a tiny bit of warpage before last week, but it seems to have really ramped up in the past ~1-2 weeks. I've also only noticed rotor surface discoloration in the past ~1-2 weeks. Coincidentally, about 2 weekends ago I was doing some fun spirited driving out in south-western York county through some curvy backcountry roads... pretty sure I heated up the brakes very well.

A google search came up with a hit from a Ford F150 forum where one guy had trouble with warped rotors. He said his mechanic replaced the calipers with ones containing plastic pistons, because there was a supposed defect in their calipers where the metal piston would expand heavily under high-heat conditions and actually get *stuck*, at least until it cooled down. Considering I've had 1 bad caliper (rear) on this car so far, I wouldn't be surprised if my fronts are a little defective... especially after dealing with all the warped rotors this car's seen in its lifetime. I also get the idea that the previous owners let the car sit around a while, 'cause I had a bad parking brake cable (busted open, letting water in) and the original rotors/calipers were pretty rusted on the outside when I first got the car.

 

I've got the slotted 2k4 rotors from Irotors plus Z calipers. I only have 100 miles on the setup so I can't comment on warping or longevity. I do know that the brakes feel great... I did notice the additional weight of the 2k4 rotor... I have SSR GT1 wheels which weigh only 18-19 lbs and it was a noticeable difference with the addition of the 2k4 rotor as compared to stock.

 

spirillis, do the rotors have even coloration on them, or do you see spots of different colors?

Read this article:
http://www.stoptech.com/whitepapers/...otors_myth.htm

 

I haven't inspected them very closely yet, but from the distance they appear similar to my old rotors... kinda "dirty" looking, some concentric rings are darker than others.

Best comparison is this (these were my old rotors)- http://spirilis.net/gallery/brakes/dsc00841

They're definitely "darker" than they were ~3 weeks ago. I'll have a closer inspection later this evening. Before I noticed this, the rotor surface was grooved, but shiny silver... very even coloration. I don't think I've ever seen "spots" like the stoptech.com site shows.

 

I had that happening in the past when I was running skyline rotors on my car...

I looked through your pics and also noted that you have pad outline deposits on your rotors.. that's from standing on the brakes at stoplights on hot rotors and parking the car with hot rotors in general... that is one of the main culprits in warping rotors and uneven deposits... try to change the way you park the car, and when you have to brake hard for a light, stop a few feet short, then use that extra room to 'creep' forward while you're waiting for the light to turn green. that will help those issues while you're cruising around town.

 

Oh trust me, I do that religiously... "creeping" at the stoplight. Sometimes it's not possible though. (this is a daily driver, and I commute ~55 miles each way to/fro work every day... it's racking up miles FAST) And when I park, I keep it in gear with the parking brake on lightly... can't really do anything about that.

I'm going to pull the car back out of the garage and inspect it in the sunlight, and take some pics (if my camera's worth anything for it...)

On the way home I noticed the brakes only feel "warped" when I'm lightly on the pedal... if I'm digging in I don't feel it. The wheels also feel somewhat out-of-balance when driving along w/o using the brakes, but that's old news (gotta take it to have its tires rotated & balanced soon)

 

Alright, just inspected them in the sunlight. Definitely warped in the same manner as my old OEM rotors--what used to be an IMMACULATE silver shiny grooved surface not 3 weeks ago, is now somewhat copper-colored, WITH pad imprints. Both driver and passenger side rotors look like this.

Pictures:
http://spirilis.net/gallery/brakes/dsc01296
http://spirilis.net/gallery/brakes/dsc01297
http://spirilis.net/gallery/brakes/dsc01298
http://spirilis.net/gallery/brakes/dsc01299

(click on the image to get the full-size, which the first two are 1632x1224, the last 2 are 2048x1536)

I'm pretty sure this roughly coincides (timeframe-wise) with that "spirited drive" I did the other weekend. I was digging in the brakes pretty well for a long time... driving through hilly, curvy, backcountry roads (i.e. roads that go from 50MPH to 15MPH and back just from hilly curves) for ~30 miles, obviously going above the recommended speed limit for a lot of the curves/stretches

 

spirillis... my old x-drilled Brembos and Axxis MM pads looked and behaved the same exact wasy as you describe. Under lighter braking, I would get a shake in the steering wheel just as if my rotors were warped. But when I got on the brakes, it would go away. As the brakes wore, the warping got worse. The rotors weren't discolored as much as yours, but were in bad shape. I got 40k miles out of that setup.

I now have close to 200 miles on my slotted 2k4 rotors, Z calipers, and Axxis pads... I wonder how these will hold up

 

Damn spirilis...what pads are you using?

 

Yep, same symptoms.

BTW, I just jacked up the front end and took off the driver's side wheel to inspect the brakes.

I doubt there's anything wrong with the calipers. The sliding pins both slid very freely, and the piston moved back into the bore (all ~0.5cm) very easily with channel-lock pliers.
I don't know. I guess I really did overheat those pads... and the pad surface area is my only real problem (for operating temperature). I figure the pad area on the stock brakes are insufficient, so moving them out a little (so they heat up even easier with the extra brake torque) in addition to taking off a tiny portion of their surface area (from the lip) probably just makes matters worse.

Since I've spent enough on brakes over the past year already, I'm not about to go splurge on a $1K+ BBK... is it even remotely possible to use 2k4 front calipers on the 5th gen? (probably a dumb question, but worth asking )

 

Axxis Metal Masters.

 

I can definitely see pad deposits on those rotors as well.. there's also quite a bit of grooving on the rotors.. I'd suggest to get away from the metal masters, turn the rotors and have them just knock the top layer off, then go with a slightly softer pad- something like the Raybestos Quiet Stop or EBC green.
the Metal Masters are known to groove rotors pretty bad.

 

Would you suggest the grooving could have something to do with this?

I've tried Raybestos QS before, I didn't like the brake fade... if anything I'd be inclined to try the Axxis Ultimates, or their Deluxe Plus (which, according to their technical info at http://www.axxisbrakes.com/technical.htm seem to perform identically to the Axxis Ultimates on all of those topics )

Heck I still have my old Raybestos QS pads with about 1/2 pad life left still sitting in a box with my old rotors...

I just want some brakes that I can heat up every once in a blue moon and will go through the entire life of the pad without warping the rotors

 

hmmm wait a sec... I wonder if the OEM 2k4 rotors are directional, i.e. their vanes curve in a certain direction

I don't think I had any way to check which rotor was supposed to go on which side of the vehicle... if the OEM 2k4 rotors' vanes are directional, for all I know I could have installed them backwards

 

don't think they're directional. When i bought mine they had the exact same code on both boxes (don't ask me why I checked, but I did.)

As to pads, I've been using Bendix Titanium pads....they are smooth, quiet, haven't noticed any significant fade during hard driving - and best of all they're pretty inexpensive and you can buy them at your local Advance Auto or maybe Autozone. Those pads with my BlehmCo setup = no problems with brakes.

 

irish- how many miles do you think you've put on them thus far?

(it's been ~2.5 months for me... which at my rate, is probably around ~10K miles)

 

I've used the Bendix Titanium IQ pads with good results as well. the Axxis seem to groove the OE rotors no matter which ones you use- MM, Deluxe, ultimate.

the 2004 Max rotors are the same for both sides.. only OE directional rotors I've seen are my skyline rotors (which were even more $$ than the 2k4 Max rotors!)

 

probably about the same here.....7-10K miles (don't remember what I was at when I put them on...)

 

hmm I'll try those bendix pads after turning the rotors... and take even more extra special care to bed them in properly...