MadMaxNH

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Today after I ran my car to really empty it started pinging when the motor lagged slightly in gear at 2k or so RPM. I filled up (with 93) then drove up this convienently close by hill. Got it to ping again same area. Only when slightly on gas in high gear. Drove back down hill, no noise and that was it. Worked it on hills and passing zones on the way home, no issues. I had the timing advanced from 14 to 17 a week and a half ago with no incident. I just installed an Apexi SAFC which is untuned currently but did require the ECU to be reset. The car is still within the 100-200 mile stated time period the ECU needs to relearn.

Anything to worry about? .Org knowledge, please lend me your wisdom

NmexMAX

iTrader: (22)

What were the temps? Happens in hot weather, or so I've read ..

MadMaxNH

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Sunny about 70 ish

Tommy Boy

Madmax, The conditions you described are the high load, low rpm conditions that will allow slight detonation to occur. Timing can be a trickey issue from car to car. Some can handle more advance, and some can't. There are many reasons for it, from excess carbon buildup in the cylinders causing more compression, to maybe your engine has a higher compression ratio from the factory due to machining tolerances and gasket thickness differences contributing to marginally higher CR. Or, your your car is running a little leaner at lower rpm creating a higher combustion temps and bringing on the rattle. What to do about it. Well start by tunning with the SAFC and try adding some fuel down low, if the tunning doesn't work and you want to keep the timing advance, then maybe an octane booster will cure the problem. This won't add 10 points to your octane rating but it will add 1 to 3 points and that should be enough to get you out of the pinging. You can also check in the fliuds section for a stickey about bring up octane rating of pump gas with an off the shelf paint product. (At least I think it's still there) Good Luck!

MadMaxNH

iTrader: (1)

Thanks Tommy, you da man. I am hoping the SAFC will take care of it. I appreciate the help alot thanks.

2002 Maxima SE

iTrader: (3)

There are many 2002 and 2003 Maximas experiencing this low RPM ping. Lots of posts all over the 5th Gen forum. Usually around 40 mph, light throttle or no throttle, around 2000 RPM. Increasing the RPM makes it go away. It gets worse as time goes on. Mine started pinging more frequently and louder.

Our engines blow quite a bit of oil through the PCV. Oil lowers octane and thus, the ping. Blowby is greatest at lower varying RPM.

I added a baffle to my PCV line which has eliminated the ping. Adding octane increasers will only fix the symptom.

zaku178

Hey guys, I never understood what you mean by pinging sound. I'm not sure if my car has the same sound as well. When I step on the gas between 1000-1500 RPM I hear a growling sound.. as if it something feels stuck. When I step on it harder past 2000 RPM it goes away. However, once I release the gas and step on it again it sounds again. I'm not sure what it is, but now my service light is on, and it did say code P1130 at autozone which is the swirl control valve or control selenoid valve. Whatever that means, give me a heads up thanks!

Maximax2

Doesn't the manual say the engine will ping lightly under certain conditions to maximize fuel economy? I've never experienced it, but pretty sure I read that in the book - will check and edit if I'm wrong.

MadMaxNH

iTrader: (1)

Never heard of that, please let me know what you found out.

NmexMAX

iTrader: (22)

Read your manual ... it might help ... He's correct.

Tommy Boy

I've heard of this being a problem for boosted cars like the cobra mustang, Subaru's and Mitsus', but I didn't think it was a problem for the NA crowd.

2002 Maxima SE, I'd like to see some pics of your baffle install and what type baffle you used. I think more people would be interested in this. I know I am.

MadMaxNH

iTrader: (1)

Ping sounds like a rapid ticking, almost like a thin piece of metal is rattling. It is a very metallic sound. Not a growl

2002 Maxima SE

iTrader: (3)

This is becoming a problem for more cars. Check out:
http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/...4;t=000936;p=1

Hondas, Mazdas, Fords, etc. The car pulls a vacuum on the lower part of the engine and reburns it to remove waste. My upper intake is covered in puddling oil before I installed this. Think about the oil/sluge coating on the cylinders and reduction in octane. My ping went from barely noticable at 30k to all the time (low RPM) at 40k.


The oil was up to the orange line after 400 miles of city driving. I dump it weekly. After a 400 mile trip to Pa (all highway except pulling off to eat) it was barely covering the bottom. So, I know city driving is the cause of most of the blowby.

Tommy Boy

2002 Maxima SE how about a parts list and hook-up points with a couple more install pics? I appreciate the info!!
Tommy Boy

Rayn4est

I'd also love to see more detailed info on this, 2002MaximaSE. It could be added to the how-to page, too: http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=406946

2002 Maxima SE

iTrader: (3)

This was pretty easy to do:

You'll need :
* Air filter: Campbell Hausfeld #MP5138 (can be found at Home Depot, Wal-Mart carries similar for air tools).
* 3/8" hose (get the auto type like Goodyear makes or the clear with thread running through. The clear and shiny black line from Home Depot could collapse under the pressure.)
* Two male 90* couplers (can be plastic or brass found in the plumbing section).

1)Open filter (the clear plastic unscrews). Remove little white filter and drill several holes through it (when this gets clogged it will not allow air through). Reinstall.
2)Remove the quick disconnects for the PCV inlet and outlet tube with pliers from car.
3)Pull tube off of PCV inlet and outlet.
4)Cut your new 3/8" hose to go from inlet to just a few inches infront of the passenger shock tower. (same for PCV outlet).
5)Do not remove PCV!!!
6)Put the quick disconnects you took off on the two new hoses, add your two hoses back, one on outlet one on inlet.
7)Put the 90 degree male ends into the filter houseing, so they are tight.
8)Put filter on tube endings (use of quick discconnects is optional here, mine was tight enough to stay on).
9)Twist tie the filter to the A/C line.
10)Done.


Here is a guy who does something similar on ebay, except he only has one 90 degree plastic fitting.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...spagename=WDVW

Tommy Boy

Thanks 2002 maxima SE!

Maximax2

2002 SE: I'm assuming you were losing oil as a result of this problem? I'm asking wondering that's a symptom that's easily checkable (i.e. to find out if my Max has this problem, just look for oil loss over time) - if you were, what was the average rate between changes?

Yes, I DO know oil loss can be caused by other things - but if there's little to no oil loss, that could be indicative?

2002 Maxima SE

iTrader: (3)

Nope, not losing a drop of oil. I had a pinging at LOW rpm.

MadMaxNH

iTrader: (1)

Or, your your car is running a little leaner at lower rpm creating a higher combustion temps and bringing on the rattle. What to do about it. Well start by tunning with the SAFC and try adding some fuel down low, if the tunning doesn't work and you want to keep the timing advance, then maybe an octane booster will cure the problem. This won't add 10 points to your octane rating but it will add 1 to 3 points and that should be enough to get you out of the pinging. You can also check in the fliuds section for a stickey about bring up octane rating of pump gas with an off the shelf paint product. (At least I think it's still there) Good Luck![/QUOTE]


Tommy,
I had my SAFC tuned today. I am correcting the lower throttle points and it seems to have gotten rid of it. (i think..hope?) Tomorrow will be the test, it is supposed to be hot. If I get the pinging tomorrow I think I will have to have the dealership back me down to 16 degr. Any thought on this? The dyno results if anyone is interested was an increase of 14 HP, to 219.86 and 225.80 Ft lbs. This was also with cat back exhaust. Right in line for the headers....mmmmm headers....

Tommy Boy

Have you checked behind your throttle blades to see if you are getting some oil containation like 2002 Max SE? Might be worth a look first. If no oil, then look at your A/F numbers below 2000rpm. Try adding a little more fuel there. If Nissan indeed made this area real lean,(for mileage reasons) then you may have to put back a fair bit. Were you tuning (on the dyno) with a wide band O2 sensor. It would DEFINATELY be worth having a bung drilled and welded to your intermediate pipe for tuning purposes. (Dyno shop will usually provide O2 sensor and hook-up. You provide the bung! I found a link that you may find useful. It is for Dodge,Chrysler,Mitsubishi crowd, but the principals are the same. http://www.angelfire.com/pro2/rst/ai...uning_tips.htm
There are a bunch of other things I would try if this were a fuel injected Mustang, but I don't know enough about Nissan's ECU and programing to make a valid or safe sugestion. As a last resort you may have to take out a degree or two of timing to get rid of all pinging. FYI: Pinging also starts before we can audibly hear it! I saw this first hand when I had my engine dynoed and the operator was watching the knock sensor LED go up as he increased load on the engine, yet I couldn't detect anything.

MadMaxNH

iTrader: (1)

I did have to add quite a bit of correction in the lower end. It was really lean from the get go. Like way up in the 16s. Drove fine yesterday but I am trying to relax and enjoy it because it seems good. I am just waiting for it to act up. If I get pinging tomorrow I am going to have it put back a degree. I will be posting a tuned dyno sheet tomorrow. I appreciate the help.

2002 Maxima SE

iTrader: (3)

Thanks. The baffle, removing the oil re-entering the stream, stopped the problem.

2002 Maxima SE

iTrader: (3)

Just behind the throttle body is an opening that allows for some suction on the PCV to pull the gas/oil/vapor into the intake. The place to check is the upper intake. If you remove the variable intake piece (passenger side with vaccuum lines) you can see the pools of oil inside. What is happening here is the intake is acting like a baffle and the oil is dropping out. What makes it into the cylinders drops the octane causing a ping.

Tommy Boy

Good info! Thanks 2002!... If I can recover from the beatings my turbo thread caused, this is something I'm going to look into before getting boost.


MadMax:
Woh, that's LEAN!

What are your numbers now?

MadMaxNH

iTrader: (1)

I am posting a tuned dyno vs old dyno. I will scan it today