Need some brainstorming help for new 5th gen project
09-23-2005, 06:15 PM
#1
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Need some brainstorming help for new 5th gen project
ok guys...need some creative thought here.
I'm working on a little project for the car (I'll tell you about it later if it works). Here's what I need to have happen:
I need a motor of some sort to be able to open a door/hatch (roughly 6x3 inches in size) at the flick of a switch. Think of a door similar in size to, say, the gas tank door....that would be opened and closed electrically (no, I'm not doing an electric gas tank door!!!)
Essentially, when the switch is in the 1st position (off?) the door would be closed. When the switch is in the 2nd position (on?) the door would open (and stay open). I was thinking maybe a servo-type switch (like a model car or plane would use), but I need it to be wired to a switch, not remote-controlled.
My thought is to use something like the electric rear side vent windows like my parents used to have on their old minivan, that opened the vent windows about 3" when a button was pressed. Anyone know where I could get one of those motors and the button for it (got a junked plymouth voyager around?)
any other ideas
I'm working on a little project for the car (I'll tell you about it later if it works). Here's what I need to have happen:
I need a motor of some sort to be able to open a door/hatch (roughly 6x3 inches in size) at the flick of a switch. Think of a door similar in size to, say, the gas tank door....that would be opened and closed electrically (no, I'm not doing an electric gas tank door!!!)
Essentially, when the switch is in the 1st position (off?) the door would be closed. When the switch is in the 2nd position (on?) the door would open (and stay open). I was thinking maybe a servo-type switch (like a model car or plane would use), but I need it to be wired to a switch, not remote-controlled.
My thought is to use something like the electric rear side vent windows like my parents used to have on their old minivan, that opened the vent windows about 3" when a button was pressed. Anyone know where I could get one of those motors and the button for it (got a junked plymouth voyager around?)
any other ideas
09-23-2005, 06:55 PM
#4
If I recall correctly from my model car days... you could technically re-wire a servo to work with a switch and not via a remote. The servo itself is separate and plugs into the receiver, or at least something that routes to the RC receiver. I'd have to do some reading to recollect all this stuff from like 15 years ago... plus I'd imagine that technology for those might be radically different now and things might be easier.
I'll try to give ya a call tomorrow....
I'll try to give ya a call tomorrow....
09-23-2005, 06:58 PM
#5
Originally Posted by Puppetmaster
If I recall correctly from my model car days... you could technically re-wire a servo to work with a switch and not via a remote. The servo itself is separate and plugs into the receiver, or at least something that routes to the RC receiver. I'd have to do some reading to recollect all this stuff from like 15 years ago... plus I'd imagine that technology for those might be radically different now and things might be easier.
I'll try to give ya a call tomorrow....
I'll try to give ya a call tomorrow....
09-23-2005, 07:05 PM
#6
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Originally Posted by Puppetmaster
If I recall correctly from my model car days... you could technically re-wire a servo to work with a switch and not via a remote. The servo itself is separate and plugs into the receiver, or at least something that routes to the RC receiver. I'd have to do some reading to recollect all this stuff from like 15 years ago... plus I'd imagine that technology for those might be radically different now and things might be easier.
I'll try to give ya a call tomorrow....
I'll try to give ya a call tomorrow....
I thought of that too, the R/c servos, but didn't remember specifically if they had ones that could hold an open and closed position indefinitely....
09-23-2005, 07:21 PM
#7
Originally Posted by irish44j
engineers...gotta love em. Joel, I'll be working at the ski shop tomorrow , so maybe I'll swing by your place on the way home around 5pm if you're home...will call first. You can be "in" on my little plan (you and Jason)
I thought of that too, the R/c servos, but didn't remember specifically if they had ones that could hold an open and closed position indefinitely....
I thought of that too, the R/c servos, but didn't remember specifically if they had ones that could hold an open and closed position indefinitely....
Btw... servos were used mostly for steering controls, so I'm pretty sure they can remain in one position indefinitely. I remember that if you shut the model car off with the steering turned full lock in one direction, it would remain in that position. One concern I was thinking about was how much force you need to keep it open or closed. The ones I dealt with were pretty weak, but there may be "bigger" ones out there if ya need something beefier.
j/k
09-23-2005, 08:45 PM
#13
How bout some sort of window motor? Or would that be too big? In building custom stereo enclosures and making them stand out I see a few electrical/hydralic type open/close systems.
I think a power antenna and motor was used one time to open and close a rear compartment in the trunk. This is the simplest and least time consuming choice that I know of. If it is too long, you can always shave the teeth and the metal piece down. Look also into lift motors, like the ones they use to open and close the
lambo doors remotely. Maybe for your project though, those might be a little too big. 
That's all I've got now, but if I think of anything else I'll let you know.
I think a power antenna and motor was used one time to open and close a rear compartment in the trunk. This is the simplest and least time consuming choice that I know of. If it is too long, you can always shave the teeth and the metal piece down. Look also into lift motors, like the ones they use to open and close the
lambo doors remotely. Maybe for your project though, those might be a little too big. That's all I've got now, but if I think of anything else I'll let you know.
09-23-2005, 08:55 PM
#14
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As far as the RC servos go, they only do rotation, not an outward movement like it appears you want. The cheapest way I can think of is to go to a junkyard and find one of those window motors from an old minivan, but other than that I was thinking about how the 6th gen maximas have folding mirrors, and (while expensive) I think that would also serve your purpose.
09-24-2005, 05:50 AM
#17
I see many issues if you use a servo from a RC car. I will try to explain why it is not a good idea, but also why it might work.
In theory, all a servo is is a motor. A motor with a series of 5-10 gears inside to convert a fast spinning motor to a precise tool to power steering, fuel regulation, or flight. These servo's have gobs of torque... they have to... if you have a 1/10th scale truck with 6" tires, and the truck is going say 50mph+, that servo NEEDS to be able to turn those wheels not only on smooth pavement, but also grass (very hard) sand, gravel, etc. So they are strong. Depending on how heavy this door of yours is, a servo might do the trick. And if it doesn't, they do sell bigger servos so that is not an issue.
Reasons why it may not work:
1.) The servo has a maximum rotation of 80 deg. So all the way up, and all the way back. It is not capable (factory) to complete a 180 deg. turn a round. Depending on where you mount it, and what type of "attachment" you put on the servo, it might not be what you are looking for.
2.) You did not come right out and tell us how far this door needs to open. I am assuming that you want it to open 3 inches due to your reference to the Plymouth voyager. If you do want 3+ inches, you will need to fabricate an "attachment" to fit on the servo so it will have an "arm" on it so it will open the door that much.
2a.) on the same topic, depending on your space limitations, creating a large arm to attach the servo may prove as impossible. You would some how have to make sure that when the arm swings back to its normal position, it will not hit anything.
3.) This I am not sure about, and you would have to do more research on... but, if you were to just take the servo, it has 3 wires. Two wires for power, and one wire for signal. if you just hook up the power wires, I am not sure if the servo will automatically just go maximum forward, and maximum back, or since it is not hooked up to the receiver, will it spin around in circles since it does not know when to stop? Also, if it does just go maximum forward/reverse, is it bad for the servo?
I have an extra servo at home... I’ll look into it for you when I get a chance. If you can, try to give some more info with out spilling the beans so I/we can assist you better.
In theory, all a servo is is a motor. A motor with a series of 5-10 gears inside to convert a fast spinning motor to a precise tool to power steering, fuel regulation, or flight. These servo's have gobs of torque... they have to... if you have a 1/10th scale truck with 6" tires, and the truck is going say 50mph+, that servo NEEDS to be able to turn those wheels not only on smooth pavement, but also grass (very hard) sand, gravel, etc. So they are strong. Depending on how heavy this door of yours is, a servo might do the trick. And if it doesn't, they do sell bigger servos so that is not an issue.
Reasons why it may not work:
1.) The servo has a maximum rotation of 80 deg. So all the way up, and all the way back. It is not capable (factory) to complete a 180 deg. turn a round. Depending on where you mount it, and what type of "attachment" you put on the servo, it might not be what you are looking for.
2.) You did not come right out and tell us how far this door needs to open. I am assuming that you want it to open 3 inches due to your reference to the Plymouth voyager. If you do want 3+ inches, you will need to fabricate an "attachment" to fit on the servo so it will have an "arm" on it so it will open the door that much.
2a.) on the same topic, depending on your space limitations, creating a large arm to attach the servo may prove as impossible. You would some how have to make sure that when the arm swings back to its normal position, it will not hit anything.
3.) This I am not sure about, and you would have to do more research on... but, if you were to just take the servo, it has 3 wires. Two wires for power, and one wire for signal. if you just hook up the power wires, I am not sure if the servo will automatically just go maximum forward, and maximum back, or since it is not hooked up to the receiver, will it spin around in circles since it does not know when to stop? Also, if it does just go maximum forward/reverse, is it bad for the servo?
I have an extra servo at home... I’ll look into it for you when I get a chance. If you can, try to give some more info with out spilling the beans so I/we can assist you better.
09-24-2005, 09:33 AM
#18
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Originally Posted by luxbond
pwr antenna? cheap and easy. its just a rip cord and a gear, 12v on/off.
Another idea, is to use an electric solenoid like the ones used to operate your power door locks. Depending on your application, they may be expensive. Plus most only have two-positions: full open and full close, with nothing in between. If you want the poor man's equivalent, just get an electromagnet (you can make one yourself by winding wire around a metal bolt). Where the electromagnet contacts the door, put a permanent magnet. Connect the electromagnet one way, it attracts. Reverse the polarity, it repels. If you don't want to mess with that, just use a spring to push/pull the door in the opposite direction from the electromagnet.
09-24-2005, 02:52 PM
#19
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thanks for the ideas guys....
without telling you what I'm doing, let me put it in comparison terms.
Imagine I have a 6-inch wide by 4-inch wide jewelery box (the kind with a hinged top that opens to take stuff out/put stuff in). Basically, I just want a motor that will be able to open this top hatch if I flick a switch on (and keep it open) and will close it if i flick the switch off...the opening mechanism does not have to be mounted on the box, as there are other things around it to mount the mechanism on.
I thought of the hydraulic ram as probably the easiest to use and convert to this kind of use (and fit into the relatively small space it needs to go in), but can't seem to find that kind of thing anywhere (any ideas?)....remember, it doesn't have to be all that big, it's only moving a 6x4" door open and shut 3-6" (not sure yet).
As to the servo, I know I'd have to set up something with an extension of some sort (like in a R/c airplane), but would rather use another option if possible...
BTW, I'm not doing anything amazing, just a basic mod that I haven't seen done this way before (so don't get your hopes up too high )
without telling you what I'm doing, let me put it in comparison terms.
Imagine I have a 6-inch wide by 4-inch wide jewelery box (the kind with a hinged top that opens to take stuff out/put stuff in). Basically, I just want a motor that will be able to open this top hatch if I flick a switch on (and keep it open) and will close it if i flick the switch off...the opening mechanism does not have to be mounted on the box, as there are other things around it to mount the mechanism on.
I thought of the hydraulic ram as probably the easiest to use and convert to this kind of use (and fit into the relatively small space it needs to go in), but can't seem to find that kind of thing anywhere (any ideas?)....remember, it doesn't have to be all that big, it's only moving a 6x4" door open and shut 3-6" (not sure yet).
As to the servo, I know I'd have to set up something with an extension of some sort (like in a R/c airplane), but would rather use another option if possible...
BTW, I'm not doing anything amazing, just a basic mod that I haven't seen done this way before (so don't get your hopes up too high
)
09-24-2005, 09:52 PM
#24
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Originally Posted by irish44j
I thought of the hydraulic ram as probably the easiest to use and convert to this kind of use (and fit into the relatively small space it needs to go in), but can't seem to find that kind of thing anywhere (any ideas?)....remember, it doesn't have to be all that big, it's only moving a 6x4" door open and shut 3-6" (not sure yet).
How about ripping the mechanism out of a broken CD-ROM?
09-25-2005, 06:03 PM
#25
09-26-2005, 04:43 AM
#29
they are headlight leveling motors, servos that have linear motion, rather than rotational. i am not sure how much range they have, maybe .5" - 1" of motion....but they were free and might be worth a try.
if you are interested and cant get one from respiro i may have a few around, free just pay shipping
if you are interested and cant get one from respiro i may have a few around, free just pay shipping
09-26-2005, 02:34 PM
#32
you can just get linear actuators.. we use alot of those for high end custom stereo set ups. just do a search on linear actuators.. there's a few types, one is hydrolic and the other is screw type.
09-26-2005, 02:59 PM
#34
Originally Posted by irish44j
AcerX....not even close. Do I look like someone who does extensive ICE mods? 
mingo, thanks, I'll check them out.
mingo, thanks, I'll check them out.
*adding an auto-purge to your oil catch can?
*adding an auto-bike dispensor to your roof rack?
*auto-open to your gas cap?
*auto cigar dispensor?
*remote control so you can sit at home on the org and drive your car to Home Depot to pick up your latest parts that you called in?
09-26-2005, 03:35 PM
#35
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Originally Posted by GBAUER
so...whatcha doing? Let me guess:
*adding an auto-purge to your oil catch can?
*adding an auto-bike dispensor to your roof rack?
*auto-open to your gas cap?
*auto cigar dispensor?
*remote control so you can sit at home on the org and drive your car to Home Depot to pick up your latest parts that you called in?
*adding an auto-purge to your oil catch can?
*adding an auto-bike dispensor to your roof rack?
*auto-open to your gas cap?
*auto cigar dispensor?
*remote control so you can sit at home on the org and drive your car to Home Depot to pick up your latest parts that you called in?
09-26-2005, 04:13 PM
#37
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Originally Posted by BewstAdd1ct
linear door lock actuator.
~fin.
~fin.
09-26-2005, 04:21 PM
#38
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depending on the type of solenoid, you can have some serious pull and holding power but the stroke is small.
I've never opened a door solenoid (lock actuator) to see how it is made up, but they seem to have a longer stroke.
You could use a lever on the opposite end of the door hinge to modify the stoke to match with your door open/close.
I've never opened a door solenoid (lock actuator) to see how it is made up, but they seem to have a longer stroke.
You could use a lever on the opposite end of the door hinge to modify the stoke to match with your door open/close.
09-26-2005, 04:27 PM
#39
In all seriousness, what exactly are you looking for Irish? Do you need a quick bang-open, bang-close, or a slow action? Full open / close, or do you need something that will allow you to stop mid-way? I can help you out if you give me an idea of what you need. I'll be in Southern MD on Wednesday near Brandywine.
09-26-2005, 05:07 PM
#40
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Originally Posted by GBAUER
In all seriousness, what exactly are you looking for Irish? Do you need a quick bang-open, bang-close, or a slow action? Full open / close, or do you need something that will allow you to stop mid-way? I can help you out if you give me an idea of what you need. I'll be in Southern MD on Wednesday near Brandywine.