Oil Consumption / rattle with Dealer response
11-04-2005, 06:33 AM
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 453
Oil Consumption / rattle with Dealer response
Hey Guys,
Below you will find the email I sent to my dealership. I just had a service rep call me this morning, and his response is at the very bottom. I have been using Mobil 5w-30 synthetic since 30k. I have a 2003 maxima.
"I'm getting concerned with 2 issues on my maxima.
The 1st issue being an increase in oil consumption. I’ve been following the 7500 mile change interval and using a Nissan filter when I do each oil change. When I changed the oil at 45k, I noticed that the car was 2 quarts low. I was a bit alarmed, but thought I would see how the next oil change turned out. However, I noticed that the engine seemed to get noisier (i.e. rattling noise) around 50k. I checked the dipstick after allowing the car to sit overnight for an accurate reading, and I could not get the oil to even register on the dipstick itself. It was 3 quarts low. I have checked for leaks, and have been keeping a close eye on my garage floor for any oil, but have not been able to find anything. Needless to say, I am very concerned as to where this oil is going in my engine, and if my engine is getting the proper lubrication it needs. I have tried to search for answers on the internet, but have only come across oil consumption tests and seeing that a few people have had their engines replaced.
The 2nd issue is a rattle that happens around 1700-2000 rpm. It only happens under a load (i.e. acceleration). I thought it had disappeared when I tried another brand of high octane gas. Unfortunately, it has not.
With my powertrain warranty coming to an end soon, these two issues cause me concerns as far as the future reliability of the car. I just finished paying for my loan in Oct, and an expecting to get quite a bit more longevity out of the car. Please advise on how to proceed further."
Dealer service rep response:
Said that even though 7500 miles is written in the book as the oil change interval, to do it more at around the 3000 mile mark, then oil consumption will go down. Duh, change it sooner, it gets to burn less. He kept dodging my question of why it burnt 3 quarts of oil between oil changes. Said basically the oil was so thin at that point it would blow by the piston and get burnt up.
As for the rattle, service rep said it is probably a heat shield. Funny how the rattle happens only under load. I know this is a common problem among our cars. If I tried to sell the car with the rattle it makes at those rpm's, I would be lucky to get 5k for it.
I wish this happened at an earlier point in time, b/c in another 3 months or so, I will be at the 60k mark. Then its just my word against their's.
Below you will find the email I sent to my dealership. I just had a service rep call me this morning, and his response is at the very bottom. I have been using Mobil 5w-30 synthetic since 30k. I have a 2003 maxima.
"I'm getting concerned with 2 issues on my maxima.
The 1st issue being an increase in oil consumption. I’ve been following the 7500 mile change interval and using a Nissan filter when I do each oil change. When I changed the oil at 45k, I noticed that the car was 2 quarts low. I was a bit alarmed, but thought I would see how the next oil change turned out. However, I noticed that the engine seemed to get noisier (i.e. rattling noise) around 50k. I checked the dipstick after allowing the car to sit overnight for an accurate reading, and I could not get the oil to even register on the dipstick itself. It was 3 quarts low. I have checked for leaks, and have been keeping a close eye on my garage floor for any oil, but have not been able to find anything. Needless to say, I am very concerned as to where this oil is going in my engine, and if my engine is getting the proper lubrication it needs. I have tried to search for answers on the internet, but have only come across oil consumption tests and seeing that a few people have had their engines replaced.
The 2nd issue is a rattle that happens around 1700-2000 rpm. It only happens under a load (i.e. acceleration). I thought it had disappeared when I tried another brand of high octane gas. Unfortunately, it has not.
With my powertrain warranty coming to an end soon, these two issues cause me concerns as far as the future reliability of the car. I just finished paying for my loan in Oct, and an expecting to get quite a bit more longevity out of the car. Please advise on how to proceed further."
Dealer service rep response:
Said that even though 7500 miles is written in the book as the oil change interval, to do it more at around the 3000 mile mark, then oil consumption will go down. Duh, change it sooner, it gets to burn less. He kept dodging my question of why it burnt 3 quarts of oil between oil changes. Said basically the oil was so thin at that point it would blow by the piston and get burnt up.
As for the rattle, service rep said it is probably a heat shield. Funny how the rattle happens only under load. I know this is a common problem among our cars. If I tried to sell the car with the rattle it makes at those rpm's, I would be lucky to get 5k for it.
I wish this happened at an earlier point in time, b/c in another 3 months or so, I will be at the 60k mark. Then its just my word against their's.
11-04-2005, 06:55 AM
#2
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 202
Unfortunately many of us are with you on these problems you're having. I myself have not experienced any oil loss (knock on wood), but then again I only have 20k on my car.
I too have the rattle at 1800-1900rpm, and it only happens under load after the tranny shifts to 2nd gear. I brought my car into the dealer and of course they couldn't duplicate the problem. I will be dropping it off again next week to have it further looked at.
If I were you I would get my car in there asap so the problem can be documented on file before you hit 60k. It seems to me after you hit 60k they may miraculously find the problem. It seems ironic that the rep is hinting blame for your oil consumption issue on your oil change interval. And I'm sure they have NEVER seen either of these two problems in their service dept before. Oh, and doesn't Nissan recommend 7500mi intervals with regular oil!?!? It sounds to me that they are trying to shaft you.
I've read that some people have had their engine's replaced. I would keep making appointments and insist upon it until they fix the problem(s).
Good luck!
I too have the rattle at 1800-1900rpm, and it only happens under load after the tranny shifts to 2nd gear. I brought my car into the dealer and of course they couldn't duplicate the problem. I will be dropping it off again next week to have it further looked at.
If I were you I would get my car in there asap so the problem can be documented on file before you hit 60k. It seems to me after you hit 60k they may miraculously find the problem. It seems ironic that the rep is hinting blame for your oil consumption issue on your oil change interval. And I'm sure they have NEVER seen either of these two problems in their service dept before. Oh, and doesn't Nissan recommend 7500mi intervals with regular oil!?!? It sounds to me that they are trying to shaft you.
I've read that some people have had their engine's replaced. I would keep making appointments and insist upon it until they fix the problem(s).
Good luck!
11-04-2005, 07:09 AM
#3
I've got the same oil problem. I stopped by my dealer and they said they would perform a test on my system to check the rate of oil burning. They are willing to seal the oil check points - dipstick, filler cap and drain bolt - with a temporary sealant, to make sure that I haven't been tampering with the oil level, and then I can come in regular intervals for them to check the oil level. They will document my burning rate and turn the results into Nissan for their opinion. I may or may not get a rebuild out of it. I bought the car at 19K and it now has 38K on it. This really sucks; replacing the synthetic oil is costing me a fortune.
11-04-2005, 07:59 AM
#6
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 202
Originally Posted by NYPD-Arnold
I have the SAME rattle issue, as well and I'm a 2001. Why does this happen? It only happens when the car is cold -- once it warms up, it's completely gone.
I'm getting tired of going to the dealer for these stupid little problems.
11-04-2005, 08:10 AM
#7
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 453
I didn't care for getting the run around on how my car burnt 3 quarts of oil in 5k miles. I can't see that being normal. I have never had this happen in a car before. But, I also have never used synthetic before. I realize 5w-30 sync maybe "thinner" than a 5W-30 dino oil. But I feel that burning so much oil in 5k isn't sync's fault. I could see 1/2 a quart, but not 3 quarts out of about 4.25 total.
11-04-2005, 08:33 AM
#8
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 202
Originally Posted by Uconn411
I didn't care for getting the run around on how my car burnt 3 quarts of oil in 5k miles. I can't see that being normal. I have never had this happen in a car before. But, I also have never used synthetic before. I realize 5w-30 sync maybe "thinner" than a 5W-30 dino oil. But I feel that burning so much oil in 5k isn't sync's fault. I could see 1/2 a quart, but not 3 quarts out of about 4.25 total.
11-04-2005, 08:47 AM
#9
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 331
I have not had any rattling or any oil burning problems and with 67,000 plus miles on the car in just over 3 yrs so far so good knock on wood. But I just discovered about a week ago my oil pan has a leak in it from a small rust spot about 4 inches from the drain plug that got bigger over time.
Stealership says a new oil pan costs about $90 and the sealant about $15. It's not leaking at a fast rate, but I am thinking of gettting it done before it gets serious.
Has anyone ever had to replace their oil pan before because or rusting or some other issue?
Stealership says a new oil pan costs about $90 and the sealant about $15. It's not leaking at a fast rate, but I am thinking of gettting it done before it gets serious.
Has anyone ever had to replace their oil pan before because or rusting or some other issue?
11-04-2005, 08:48 AM
#10
http://forums.maxima.org/showthread....ght=oil+rattle
http://forums.maxima.org/showthread....ght=oil+rattle
http://forums.maxima.org/showthread....ght=oil+rattle
http://forums.maxima.org/showthread....ght=oil+rattle
http://forums.maxima.org/showthread....ght=oil+rattle
http://forums.maxima.org/showthread....ght=oil+rattle
More out there, but you get the idea....
http://forums.maxima.org/showthread....ght=oil+rattle
http://forums.maxima.org/showthread....ght=oil+rattle
http://forums.maxima.org/showthread....ght=oil+rattle
http://forums.maxima.org/showthread....ght=oil+rattle
http://forums.maxima.org/showthread....ght=oil+rattle
More out there, but you get the idea....
11-04-2005, 09:10 AM
#11
Originally Posted by Redstone
I have not had any rattling or any oil burning problems and with 67,000 plus miles on the car in just over 3 yrs so far so good knock on wood. But I just discovered about a week ago my oil pan has a leak in it from a small rust spot about 4 inches from the drain plug that got bigger over time.
Stealership says a new oil pan costs about $90 and the sealant about $15. It's not leaking at a fast rate, but I am thinking of gettting it done before it gets serious.
Has anyone ever had to replace their oil pan before because or rusting or some other issue?
Stealership says a new oil pan costs about $90 and the sealant about $15. It's not leaking at a fast rate, but I am thinking of gettting it done before it gets serious.
Has anyone ever had to replace their oil pan before because or rusting or some other issue?
11-04-2005, 09:16 AM
#12
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 331
Originally Posted by boondoxmax
Not me but when i was at this tire shop last month. There was a 02 maxima in getting the oil changed and the told the owner that the pan was leaking from rust right near the bolt. They ended up charging this poor lady 340.00 for a new oil pan
11-04-2005, 09:57 AM
#15
Not the 2k rattle. The 2k-3k rpm rattle is the timing chain tensioner. The precat rattle is 5-6.5k rpms at WOT. Oh, and it you think your oil consumption is bad: I add a quart every 2 out of three fill-ups just to keep up with the burn. Check my sig (sentence was added by a mod buddy of mine as a joke. I think it's staying for a bit...)
11-04-2005, 10:31 AM
#17
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 202
Originally Posted by GBAUER
Not the 2k rattle. The 2k-3k rpm rattle is the timing chain tensioner. The precat rattle is 5-6.5k rpms at WOT. Oh, and it you think your oil consumption is bad: I add a quart every 2 out of three fill-ups just to keep up with the burn. Check my sig (sentence was added by a mod buddy of mine as a joke. I think it's staying for a bit...)
11-04-2005, 06:17 PM
#19
I Miss My Maxima
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Arlington, TX
Posts: 585
Strange, I've been doing oil services every 2,500 miles with Castrol GTX for the past 70,000 miles, and my VQ35 has yet to burn any noticeable amount of oil...
Change your oil every 2,500 miles. It's cheap and can't hurt anything.
I have never used any synthetic products before so I cannot tell you if they work well with our cars or not.
The VQ35 knocks and rattles. It just does. It hates low octane gas, and it really hates cold starts -- the VTC sprockets rattle on cold starts, the oil has a tendency to drain down from the top of the motor (even with anti-drainback filter), it loves to ping and knock under load when the temp outside is hot. Get used to it, as the "fixes" suggested by Nissan rarely solve the problem (VTC sprocket replacement, timing chain tensioner, etc.)
Change your oil every 2,500 miles. It's cheap and can't hurt anything.
I have never used any synthetic products before so I cannot tell you if they work well with our cars or not.
The VQ35 knocks and rattles. It just does. It hates low octane gas, and it really hates cold starts -- the VTC sprockets rattle on cold starts, the oil has a tendency to drain down from the top of the motor (even with anti-drainback filter), it loves to ping and knock under load when the temp outside is hot. Get used to it, as the "fixes" suggested by Nissan rarely solve the problem (VTC sprocket replacement, timing chain tensioner, etc.)
11-05-2005, 06:41 PM
#20
Supporting Maxima.org Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Lakeland, FL
Posts: 1,587
Originally Posted by paralyse
The VQ35 knocks and rattles. It just does. It hates low octane gas, and it really hates cold starts -- the VTC sprockets rattle on cold starts,
the oil has a tendency to drain down from the top of the motor (even with anti-drainback filter), it loves to ping and knock under load when the temp outside is hot. Get used to it, as the "fixes" suggested by Nissan rarely solve the problem (VTC sprocket replacement, timing chain tensioner, etc.)
11-05-2005, 06:52 PM
#21
I Miss My Maxima
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Arlington, TX
Posts: 585
I couldn't convince my dealer to do the VTC campaign before my pt warranty expired, unfortunately -- they insisted it was "normal"... bah. We all know how THAT goes.
If I can get my hands on a new set of sprockets from Nissan sometime I might attempt the repair myself up at the shop, or pay one of the heavy line techs a six-pack and a 20 to do it for me since i lack confidence in my engine-repair skills.
If I can get my hands on a new set of sprockets from Nissan sometime I might attempt the repair myself up at the shop, or pay one of the heavy line techs a six-pack and a 20 to do it for me since i lack confidence in my engine-repair skills.
11-05-2005, 08:41 PM
#22
Donating Maxima.org Member
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,875
Okay guys, let me clarify.
With the rattle between 1500-2000rpms, this is the rear precat failure. The parts inside has broken up and rattled inside. If left unchecked bits of these things can be sucked back into the engine (2k4 maximas were recalled because of this).
I had this problem at 30K and had the rear precat replaced. Now it came back at about 65K. So i bought Cattman GEN2 headers to get rid of these $hitty *** precats.
With the oil consumption:
there is no solution to this. I blieve you may have possible compression problems. It took nearly 9 months to get this problem resovled for me, and it appears to be internal engine damage. I had my engine replaced under warranty at 77K after being processed by NISSAN NORTH AMERICA for months on end. I had my oil change done every 4,000kms on AMSOIL synthetics before i noticed significant engine oil loss.s
Nissan really does suck.. This problem isnt just VQ35DE's in maximas, its in G35's., 350Z's and Pathfinders. Not to mention the issues with the QR25DE's as well (altimas are coming in alot for engine replacements)>
I swear to god, this is the last nissan product i ever buy again after 3 maximas (99 SE, 2k2 SE, 2k3 SE).
With the rattle between 1500-2000rpms, this is the rear precat failure. The parts inside has broken up and rattled inside. If left unchecked bits of these things can be sucked back into the engine (2k4 maximas were recalled because of this).
I had this problem at 30K and had the rear precat replaced. Now it came back at about 65K. So i bought Cattman GEN2 headers to get rid of these $hitty *** precats.
With the oil consumption:
there is no solution to this. I blieve you may have possible compression problems. It took nearly 9 months to get this problem resovled for me, and it appears to be internal engine damage. I had my engine replaced under warranty at 77K after being processed by NISSAN NORTH AMERICA for months on end. I had my oil change done every 4,000kms on AMSOIL synthetics before i noticed significant engine oil loss.s
Nissan really does suck.. This problem isnt just VQ35DE's in maximas, its in G35's., 350Z's and Pathfinders. Not to mention the issues with the QR25DE's as well (altimas are coming in alot for engine replacements)>
I swear to god, this is the last nissan product i ever buy again after 3 maximas (99 SE, 2k2 SE, 2k3 SE).
11-05-2005, 09:06 PM
#23
I have heard that the OEM oil filter has a check valve in it, so it keeps the tensioner pressurized so its not supposed to rattle after cold starts..
I was about a quart low on my first oil change, BUT then again I had a badly seaat ted front valve cover gasket, and I wouldnt be suprised if I lost a quart due to that.
My next oil change is coming up, I'll see if i've lost any oil.
I was about a quart low on my first oil change, BUT then again I had a badly seaat ted front valve cover gasket, and I wouldnt be suprised if I lost a quart due to that.
My next oil change is coming up, I'll see if i've lost any oil.
11-06-2005, 08:07 AM
#26
im having the same prob (oil consumption and rattle) and took it to the dealership. im supposed to bring it back in 1000 miles. ive driven around 700 and im having the rattle already. the service manager acted like this is a rare problem and implied that it was probably my fault. i have to take in proof that i changed the oil every 3,000 miles. ive only put 9,000 miles on the car since i have had it.
the rattle is the timing chain. the tensioner needs oil pressure to work. when the oil gets low there isnt enough pressure for the tensioner to keep the timing chain tight so it rattles.
the rattle is the timing chain. the tensioner needs oil pressure to work. when the oil gets low there isnt enough pressure for the tensioner to keep the timing chain tight so it rattles.
11-06-2005, 08:34 AM
#30
Originally Posted by NYPD-Arnold
Does it stop rattling for you guys after the car is driven for like 1 minute? That's when mine stops. It's weird that I'm one of the only 3.0 guys experiencing this rattle too.
BTW, I have a 4th gen chain tensioner.
11-06-2005, 08:55 AM
#31
Whoa. As of now i don't get any rattling at all.......No oil loss either but because of these threads i check my oil twice a week to be safe..........As far a nissan filters go ive never used them i always use bosch filter and haven't had any problem with the chain rattling except for the normal when i get every once i awhile at start up but it last about 3 sec.
11-06-2005, 09:09 AM
#32
Supporting Maxima.org Member
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: the OC & Silicon Valley
Posts: 2,586
Originally Posted by soonerfan
mine doesnt go away. it always happens when the car is under load with the RPMs under 3K.
11-07-2005, 10:49 AM
#33
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 202
Ok, so the timing chain tensioner needs to be replaced if you are getting the rattle, correct? I'm bringing the car in for the cold start rattle again, so I'm assumming they can do both at the same time.
I'm actually thinking about selling this car now.
I'm actually thinking about selling this car now.
11-07-2005, 12:10 PM
#34
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 191
Originally Posted by NYPD-Arnold
Does it stop rattling for you guys after the car is driven for like 1 minute? That's when mine stops. It's weird that I'm one of the only 3.0 guys experiencing this rattle too.
It just started a couple of weeks ago, and it's driving me crazy. I thought it was a heat shield or something. Are you guys telling me that I'm not going to be able to get rid of this damn rattle?
11-07-2005, 01:48 PM
#35
Originally Posted by zmax26
Ok, so the timing chain tensioner needs to be replaced if you are getting the rattle, correct? I'm bringing the car in for the cold start rattle again, so I'm assumming they can do both at the same time.
I'm actually thinking about selling this car now.
I'm actually thinking about selling this car now.
11-07-2005, 04:05 PM
#37
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 202
Originally Posted by soonerfan
read what i wrote before. if you are also losing oil you dont have to replace the tensioner. it just isnt working correctly due to lack of oil pressure.
11-07-2005, 04:13 PM
#38
Originally Posted by MiniRX7
You guys are mixing things up.
If yuou have a constant rattle like me, its the precats.
If you have a rattle during start up or it goes away, its the tensioner, or lack of oil during start up.
If yuou have a constant rattle like me, its the precats.
If you have a rattle during start up or it goes away, its the tensioner, or lack of oil during start up.
i have the rattle all the time because im losing oil. there is NOTHING wrong with my precats.
i'll say it for the third time - when your oil gets low there is not enough oil pressure for the tensioner to work correctly so your timing chain rattles.
11-07-2005, 04:15 PM
#39
Originally Posted by zmax26
I hea ya, I have the rattle at 1800 rpm but I'm NOT losing oil.
in my case, im losing oil too. the tensioner is fine just not working correctly due to lack of oil
11-07-2005, 04:21 PM
#40
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 202
Originally Posted by soonerfan
if you arent losing oil then it is most likely the tensioner not working and needs to be replaced.
in my case, im losing oil too. the tensioner is fine just not working correctly due to lack of oil
in my case, im losing oil too. the tensioner is fine just not working correctly due to lack of oil