Do Warpspeed SFCs Work?
#41
Originally Posted by BlackBIRDVQ
Irish- put me down for a set of SFCs if you have Piper make them. I can't take my car to a fabricator right now as its my only car that drives- Q45 will be drivable sometime next month, and my woman drives our Legend. When the Q is up and runing I can leave my Maxima in the shop for some SFCs for as long as it takes- no more than few weeks thou.
I didn't spend over 2K dollars on suspension to have it hamppered by jello like chassis that cant cope with high G forces. Hell my stock 94 Q45 feels more solid than my Maxima could ever hope for. I am probably going to be the 1st 5th gen around with a roll cage and no interior pretty soon.... just gotta get my Q45 100% restored.
#43
Originally Posted by BlackBIRDVQ
Irish- put me down for a set of SFCs if you have Piper make them. I can't take my car to a fabricator right now as its my only car that drives- Q45 will be drivable sometime next month, and my woman drives our Legend. When the Q is up and runing I can leave my Maxima in the shop for some SFCs for as long as it takes- no more than few weeks thou.
I didn't spend over 2K dollars on suspension to have it hamppered by jello like chassis that cant cope with high G forces. Hell my stock 94 Q45 feels more solid than my Maxima could ever hope for. I am probably going to be the 1st 5th gen around with a roll cage and no interior pretty soon.... just gotta get my Q45 100% restored.
I didn't spend over 2K dollars on suspension to have it hamppered by jello like chassis that cant cope with high G forces. Hell my stock 94 Q45 feels more solid than my Maxima could ever hope for. I am probably going to be the 1st 5th gen around with a roll cage and no interior pretty soon.... just gotta get my Q45 100% restored.
1. I don't know if they are going to be interested in mass-producing these - they are an in-demand performance shop here, and my intention is to have them build the sfc's on the car (they said it should take 2 hours)...for them to make the design to sell/ship, they'd have to also make a template for the pieces...
so....I will ask them for sure, but I'm betting that if anyone wants piper to make them, they will have to drive down here to do it. I still can't believe you guys in big cities like chicago can't find a shop that can do this. Piper made it sound like it was really easy as heck to do, and that any shop that specializes in roll bars/frames shoul be able to do it.
2. I dont' know what kind of welding they use, but these guys have a GREAT reputation (never heard anything bad about them at all), so I'm sure they use the "best method" available.
3. I won't be doing this for a few months, so I hope you guys can wait
#44
Well it's easy to make a template or jig or simply record the measurements for a given car model. This is an amazing mod, extremely cheap, and a company could stand to make quite a lot if we advertised on the Org. Given the way things on the Org work, I bet once a few new people installed SFCs and saw the results, they would post "wow!" threads on the Org, which would stimulate interest and the orders would roll in for this $200ish mod. I don't know how many SFCs Warpspeed has sold but if they had decent communication and production capacity I bet they could have sold 10 times as many.
Anyway, when you do go to get your SFCs fitted and installed at Piper, definitely inquire if they'd be willing to make them en masse. If you were willing to take on the responsibility/risk, you could buy the parts from them and sell them on the Org at a good rate. You can argue that any decent exhaust/suspension shop should be able to make these, but many Org members don't live near good shops and many that do may not know about them. Thus, someone selling SFCs custom made for Maximas that are all set to go, just need to be welded correctly, could sell a lot. It's like: do I want to do a lot of hunting and talking and explaining to get a set of SFCs that might be a little better or cheaper (or might not), or do I want to simply order the ones that are known to work and just pay a little shipping. Easy choice, even for a perfectionist like me.
That said, I'm prepared to call shops as far away as Chicago because I want SFCs so badly!
Anyway, when you do go to get your SFCs fitted and installed at Piper, definitely inquire if they'd be willing to make them en masse. If you were willing to take on the responsibility/risk, you could buy the parts from them and sell them on the Org at a good rate. You can argue that any decent exhaust/suspension shop should be able to make these, but many Org members don't live near good shops and many that do may not know about them. Thus, someone selling SFCs custom made for Maximas that are all set to go, just need to be welded correctly, could sell a lot. It's like: do I want to do a lot of hunting and talking and explaining to get a set of SFCs that might be a little better or cheaper (or might not), or do I want to simply order the ones that are known to work and just pay a little shipping. Easy choice, even for a perfectionist like me.
That said, I'm prepared to call shops as far away as Chicago because I want SFCs so badly!
#46
Actually, now that I think about it someone should ask Matt Blehm if he wants to start making SFCs, since he knows (A) so much about Maximas and (B) so much about suspension/chassis modification, and (C) already does business via the Org.
#47
Originally Posted by VQuick
Actually, now that I think about it someone should ask Matt Blehm if he wants to start making SFCs, since he knows (A) so much about Maximas and (B) so much about suspension/chassis modification, and (C) already does business via the Org.
I agree though, Matt would certainly do a better job at selling/customer service WRT SFCs than Warpspeed does.
what can ya do though?
#48
Originally Posted by VQuick
Well it's easy to make a template or jig or simply record the measurements for a given car model. This is an amazing mod, extremely cheap, and a company could stand to make quite a lot if we advertised on the Org. Given the way things on the Org work, I bet once a few new people installed SFCs and saw the results, they would post "wow!" threads on the Org, which would stimulate interest and the orders would roll in for this $200ish mod. I don't know how many SFCs Warpspeed has sold but if they had decent communication and production capacity I bet they could have sold 10 times as many.
Example: One of the cars I saw them working on was a 5-series BMW, entire interior gutted and full role CAGE (not bar - cage) being fitted with race seats. This is like a $5K+ job on a car like that. And there were other cars sitting in their shop that were having even more done to them. They make their money on the labor, not the parts. He said materials for SFCs would only run me like $30 (no markup)...basically it's the labor that will cost me.
Again, not saying they wouldn't do it, but I wouldn't get my hopes up.
Originally Posted by VQuick
If you were willing to take on the responsibility/risk, you could buy the parts from them and sell them on the Org at a good rate.
Originally Posted by VQuick
You can argue that any decent exhaust/suspension shop should be able to make these, but many Org members don't live near good shops and many that do may not know about them. Thus, someone selling SFCs custom made for Maximas that are all set to go, just need to be welded correctly, could sell a lot. It's like: do I want to do a lot of hunting and talking and explaining to get a set of SFCs that might be a little better or cheaper (or might not), or do I want to simply order the ones that are known to work and just pay a little shipping. Easy choice, even for a perfectionist like me.
That said, I'm prepared to call shops as far away as Chicago because I want SFCs so badly!
That said, I'm prepared to call shops as far away as Chicago because I want SFCs so badly!
#49
I do have a QUALITY shop who does some killer exhaust work right around my work, I am taking my Q45 there sometime next month for a custom exhaust from headers back. I will inquire bout SFCs while I am there, guy who owns the shop used to be a Nissan Tech at the Nissan dealer next to my Acura dealership. Everytime I drive by that exhaust shop I see old classic cars and muscle cars getting work done on them, I also had them weld my 02 sensor bung up in my headers after installing them. Shop is called Exhaust Works in Naperville, IL.
#50
Thanks Irish, that's what I figured. Good luck with your SFCs and be sure to post your impressions after installation. Oh, do you know anything about what type of steel (including shape and diameter of the tubes) makes a good SFC? The bigger and thicker the better but I wonder how big and thick. If they're saying it's $30 in parts I assume it's basic cheap steel, which is probably more than stiff enough. I suspect that the design of the SFCs, including welding points and bracing, matters more than material.
Mike thanks for the info! I will need a good exhaust shop anyway since my Greddy catback hangs too low right now and would probably get in the way of SFCs. I don't really trust shops around here to do anything serious so I'll probably get it all done this spring at Exhaust Works or a similar place.
Mike thanks for the info! I will need a good exhaust shop anyway since my Greddy catback hangs too low right now and would probably get in the way of SFCs. I don't really trust shops around here to do anything serious so I'll probably get it all done this spring at Exhaust Works or a similar place.
#51
Originally Posted by VQuick
The person above who was saying SFCs are a waste for a daily driver fails to understand what SFCs do and how different the car feels all the time, whether at the track or driving over speed bumps at 5MPH in a parking lot. The car will feel much more solid, much more like an expensive car, and rough road surfaces will be far, far, far less annoying and painful.
And as far as speed bumps, lol, I drive over them at work.. the car twists and creaks less, but I have to go even slower because it bounces even more.
I stand by my comment that on my daily driver Maxima they will be of no value. I speak from the experience of driving a worse chassis with more flex and not noticing a huge difference in overall ride quality.
#52
Originally Posted by Jay_Alix
Well I have DRIVEN and OWNED cars with more torque, stiffer suspension, t-tops, and RWD which trust me adds up to one hell of a lot more flex than the Maxima. RWD by design flexes the chassis more in straight line situations. Did I notice a difference, of course. Did it improve ride quality? No. As for rough surfaces? LMAO yeah explain to me how it's going to improve? It made absolutely NO positive difference, if anything worse. The Camaro bounces over rough surfaces the same as it did stock.
And as far as speed bumps, lol, I drive over them at work.. the car twists and creaks less, but I have to go even slower because it bounces even more.
I stand by my comment that on my daily driver Maxima they will be of no value. I speak from the experience of driving a worse chassis with more flex and not noticing a huge difference in overall ride quality.
And as far as speed bumps, lol, I drive over them at work.. the car twists and creaks less, but I have to go even slower because it bounces even more.
I stand by my comment that on my daily driver Maxima they will be of no value. I speak from the experience of driving a worse chassis with more flex and not noticing a huge difference in overall ride quality.
I thought I read way back about how BMW uses the strategy of providing a stiff chassis but then following up with soft springs to make the ride comfortable... the stiff chassis affords them the ability to use softer springs while maintaining good handling.
#53
Originally Posted by spirilis
I'd imagine once the SFCs are on there then "smoothing out the ride" becomes a matter of spring/strut choice, since the "bouncing" would be caused mostly by the choice of struts/springs?
I thought I read way back about how BMW uses the strategy of providing a stiff chassis but then following up with soft springs to make the ride comfortable... the stiff chassis affords them the ability to use softer springs while maintaining good handling.
I thought I read way back about how BMW uses the strategy of providing a stiff chassis but then following up with soft springs to make the ride comfortable... the stiff chassis affords them the ability to use softer springs while maintaining good handling.
#54
Originally Posted by irish44j
I will, though, inquire with Piper as to other shops that they might know about in the Midwest that they would recommend.
#55
I would never expect a "Camaro" to ever ride very well regardless of SFC's, as the level of refinement in those discontinued vehicles is more akin to that of a 80's pickup truck. I would reserve these types of observations to those who would own a Camaro.
You must also consider the quality and design of the SFC's that were used. Power/Torque aside, stiffening the entire area between the wheelbase of any vehicle, will create a better more solid vehicle. Once this foundation can be improved, suspensions can do their job more effectively and in most cases can be softened to increase ride quality without much degradation of handling.
Point Blank, your 2000 Maxima would see a huge improvement in the areas already discussed with the installation of WSPD style SFC's.
You must also consider the quality and design of the SFC's that were used. Power/Torque aside, stiffening the entire area between the wheelbase of any vehicle, will create a better more solid vehicle. Once this foundation can be improved, suspensions can do their job more effectively and in most cases can be softened to increase ride quality without much degradation of handling.
Point Blank, your 2000 Maxima would see a huge improvement in the areas already discussed with the installation of WSPD style SFC's.
Originally Posted by Jay_Alix
Well I have DRIVEN and OWNED cars with more torque, stiffer suspension, t-tops, and RWD which trust me adds up to one hell of a lot more flex than the Maxima. RWD by design flexes the chassis more in straight line situations. Did I notice a difference, of course. Did it improve ride quality? No. As for rough surfaces? LMAO yeah explain to me how it's going to improve? It made absolutely NO positive difference, if anything worse. The Camaro bounces over rough surfaces the same as it did stock.
And as far as speed bumps, lol, I drive over them at work.. the car twists and creaks less, but I have to go even slower because it bounces even more.
I stand by my comment that on my daily driver Maxima they will be of no value. I speak from the experience of driving a worse chassis with more flex and not noticing a huge difference in overall ride quality.
And as far as speed bumps, lol, I drive over them at work.. the car twists and creaks less, but I have to go even slower because it bounces even more.
I stand by my comment that on my daily driver Maxima they will be of no value. I speak from the experience of driving a worse chassis with more flex and not noticing a huge difference in overall ride quality.
#56
Originally Posted by Jay_Alix
Well I have DRIVEN and OWNED cars with more torque, stiffer suspension, t-tops, and RWD which trust me adds up to one hell of a lot more flex than the Maxima. RWD by design flexes the chassis more in straight line situations. Did I notice a difference, of course. Did it improve ride quality? No. As for rough surfaces? LMAO yeah explain to me how it's going to improve? It made absolutely NO positive difference, if anything worse. The Camaro bounces over rough surfaces the same as it did stock.
And as far as speed bumps, lol, I drive over them at work.. the car twists and creaks less, but I have to go even slower because it bounces even more.
I stand by my comment that on my daily driver Maxima they will be of no value. I speak from the experience of driving a worse chassis with more flex and not noticing a huge difference in overall ride quality.
And as far as speed bumps, lol, I drive over them at work.. the car twists and creaks less, but I have to go even slower because it bounces even more.
I stand by my comment that on my daily driver Maxima they will be of no value. I speak from the experience of driving a worse chassis with more flex and not noticing a huge difference in overall ride quality.
apples and oranges....comparing modifications on a camaro and a maxima is ridiculous, as they do not have the same types of frames, same types of suspension, same drivetrain, or same anything else. We are not only talking about torsional "frame twist" via the drivetrain torquing, but also longitudinal stiffness - furthermore, the weight distribution and drivetrain of the maxima manipulate the frame in different ways than a camaro would, so it is not a valid comparison.
As to your standing by your comment, that's all well and good - but the fact is, you haven't driven or been in a Maxima with SFCs, so you're really not speaking from ANY experience whatsoever, in truth.
I have driven, ridden in, and watched in autocross Maximas/I30s with SFCs. Both in handling and ride the effect is obvious. Furthermore, EVERY SINGLE PERSON on the org with SFCs on their Maxima swears up and down that they are the "single best mod" they've ever done to their Maxima/I30/I35.
People who KNOW from experience about mods on a maxima > people who are trying to correlate a RWD T-top American coupe with a FWD 4-door Japanese sedan.
#58
Originally Posted by DrKlop
Anybody knows the weight of SFC?
#59
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Originally Posted by DrKlop
Anybody knows the weight of SFC?
Stage 1 and 2 are 35lbs together.
BTW an UPDATE on my progress. I found a great shop in Hyannis. Nakutis Custom hotrods and choppers. The second I walked in there I felt comfortable. They got the car on the lift and I showed the guy the instructions on how to install the warp speed SFCs from there he was able to show me where everything hooked in and actually educated me a bit. The guy seemed very knowledgable, saying he felt he could even improve the design slightly. He basically told me everything I thought would be fair for a deal like this. He said he really needed my car in the shop for a week to a week in a half just because he likes to check and recheck and re check his measurements over and over and he needs the car in the shop for that. He said that the SFCs would be 350$ installed at the most and more likely around 300$. Basically the guy seemed like a cool guy who was quite knowledgable he even showed me one of the four custom choppers hes bringing to daytona, pointing out the welds I am guessing so I would know how well he could weld. He than said "I wasnt gonna say anything but look at this weld that Warpspeed shows in their instructions its a terrible weld, I would never put my name on it) he than showed it to his 13 year old son (who was working the lift) and asked him what he thought of the weld and the kid was like "who welded that, it looks like crap" LoL it cracked me up. That 13 year old puts me to shame when it comes to automotive knowledge.
I was going to go for it today and say lets go on the install but this past weekend my transmission started acting up a ton. It now slips like crazy and if I keep the gas planted the car starts shaking like theres wheel hop but the tires arent spinning, and it downshifts hard with a clunk. I thought I had a 60k warranty but it turns out I have a 70k powertrain warranty and I know the SFCs would void my warranty. So I think I should wait till my warranty is up especially with all these tranny problems. Man I hope Infiniti gives me a brand new tranny! So I guess I will probably get a Lower tie bar and a rear strut bar this christmas with my 350$ unless you guys have a better idea. I already have a front strut bar and a rear sway bar but once the warranty up I am getting SFCs made from this shop immediatly.
#61
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Originally Posted by NYPD-Arnold
Ouch...300 for an SFC sounds steep to me. Any ballpark figures on what the Warpspeed stuff goes for?
Are you kidding me I would pay 500$ for them if that was the going rate. The warpspeed kit is 200$ and installation runs 100-150$, so this guys is offering this setup for the same price and there is no such thing as a single SFC. Dude do some research and try and find another suspension mod for 300$ that improves handling and ride quality as much as the SFCs.
I wouldent be spending money on them if I didnt fully believe in it
It was only after dealing with a couple stupid shops that I started to doubt SFCs use but now I see the light
#63
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Originally Posted by VQuick
So they're essentially going to make you a custom design and install it for $300ish? Sounds like a good deal.
#64
Well aren't they in Massachusetts? Unless they're near me what good does it do me? But thanks for the info.
BTW, unless you're totally incompetent you can install the LTB yourself. It's just four nuts that you have to take off and put back on.
BTW, unless you're totally incompetent you can install the LTB yourself. It's just four nuts that you have to take off and put back on.
#65
Originally Posted by irish44j
People who KNOW from experience about mods on a maxima > people who are trying to correlate a RWD T-top American coupe with a FWD 4-door Japanese sedan.
Anyone in western CT area looking to get this done, Miller Race Cars in Wallingford does excellent work. Not sure if he's still around, or if he is willing to do other cars than what he's familliar with though. Last # I had for them is 203-537-7836
#66
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Originally Posted by VQuick
Well aren't they in Massachusetts? Unless they're near me what good does it do me? But thanks for the info.
BTW, unless you're totally incompetent you can install the LTB yourself. It's just four nuts that you have to take off and put back on.
BTW, unless you're totally incompetent you can install the LTB yourself. It's just four nuts that you have to take off and put back on.
#67
Originally Posted by sciff5
Irish said a while back that air tools were required. I don'thave air tools so even if its easy.... i wont be able to do it
#68
I've taken it on an off several times without air tools. Since I was one of the first to buy and install an LTB, Matt forgot to tell me one step of the instructions so my bar had to be bent to make it fit, but most people shouldn't have that issue. If for any reason you have problems installing the bar you can remove some of the control arm bolts to give you some play, then get the bar on, and then tighten everything to spec. There's not much that a 2' breaker bar can't handle. Don't be afraid of a little elbow grease.
#69
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Originally Posted by irish44j
not "required" but they make things ALOT easier. I have done it twice with air tools, and once without. Trust me, with as many tight bolts as need to be undone under the car, and limited space to work (unless you have the car on a lift), air tools/impact tools make things 1000% easier.
Does it matter if the suspension is loaded or unloaded during this install? Could I drive it onto some ramps or do I have to use jackstands?
#70
i would put it up on jackstands. buy TWO 27mm sockets. i found out that i had to put both on in order to be ABLE to tighten the second nut. if the first nut is on somewhat, the ltb gets twisted slighly, and i COULD NOT PUT THE SOCKET ON THE SECOND NUT FOR SHEET.
#72
Originally Posted by chr0nos
i would put it up on jackstands. buy TWO 27mm sockets. i found out that i had to put both on in order to be ABLE to tighten the second nut. if the first nut is on somewhat, the ltb gets twisted slighly, and i COULD NOT PUT THE SOCKET ON THE SECOND NUT FOR SHEET.
definitely put the car on jackstands.
#75
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Originally Posted by irish44j
let us know how you like them, once you receive them in June 2009.
#76
Originally Posted by sciff5
HAHA aint that the truth. Thats why we are all getting them custom made because warpspeed is ****. Sorry dallas but you suck no matter how good your intentions are.
#77
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Originally Posted by irish44j
I was going to give WS a third chance at getting my business (previous SFC and y-pipe interest), but the email I sent almost 2 weeks ago was never answered (again), so oh well.....
let me know how things go with piper. BTW my name is Josh too
#78
The SFC's would NOT void your warrany on powertrain....because of the Moss-Magnussen Act, the dealer would have to PROVE that your SFCs were the cause of engine/tranny failure if they wanted to deny service. They might give you a hard time, but in a legal sense they wouldn't have a leg to stand on.
if you had a bumper-to-bumper warranty and you had something go wrong like door mis-alignment or something, that maybe could be blamed on the SFCs - but definitely not engine/tranny problems. The SFCs have NO effect on the engine or tranny.
if you had a bumper-to-bumper warranty and you had something go wrong like door mis-alignment or something, that maybe could be blamed on the SFCs - but definitely not engine/tranny problems. The SFCs have NO effect on the engine or tranny.
#79
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Originally Posted by irish44j
The SFC's would NOT void your warrany on powertrain....because of the Moss-Magnussen Act, the dealer would have to PROVE that your SFCs were the cause of engine/tranny failure if they wanted to deny service. They might give you a hard time, but in a legal sense they wouldn't have a leg to stand on.
if you had a bumper-to-bumper warranty and you had something go wrong like door mis-alignment or something, that maybe could be blamed on the SFCs - but definitely not engine/tranny problems. The SFCs have NO effect on the engine or tranny.
if you had a bumper-to-bumper warranty and you had something go wrong like door mis-alignment or something, that maybe could be blamed on the SFCs - but definitely not engine/tranny problems. The SFCs have NO effect on the engine or tranny.
hmm I will ask the dealer if they will cover it even if I put the SFCs on there and if they say no I will bring up that law case. If they still say no I will talk to the owner of the dealership and if they still say no I'll wait, but at that point they should say yes
How hard is it to hold dealerships to this law?
#80
Originally Posted by sciff5
How hard is it to hold dealerships to this law?
http://uscode.house.gov/download/pls/15C50.txt
Easier to read version: http://autopedia.com/html/HotLinks_LemonMM2.html
Good info regarding implications for aftermarket auto parts:
http://www.enjoythedrive.com/content/?id=8128
http://www.dummies.com/WileyCDA/Dumm...e/id-2669.html