Hotshot Header question
01-30-2006, 08:43 AM
#1
Hotshot Header question
I understand that steel rusts and especially when a little moisture gets inside, but should brand new Hotshot headers have a little rust inside the piping. Should I return it or is that common since maybe it was sitting around their shop for awhile? The guy that is installing them said not to worry but I figured I’d ask anyway.
Also, how do you relocate the O2 sensor? Hotshot did not give me any instructions.
Thanks
Also, how do you relocate the O2 sensor? Hotshot did not give me any instructions.
Thanks
01-30-2006, 02:08 PM
#2
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Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 190
i dont really no about the rust so i would go with the advice of the machinic. as for the o2 sensors u would have to relocate them behind the cat. the exhaust shop has to cut to holes for the sensors and the package should have came with 2 metal pieces that u weld to the pipe and screw the o2 sensors to them. its made for the sensors to screw right in. also ure gunna need to run wire all the way back so make sure there aming up or as far up as u can go with the wires its gunna be long my wires hang preety low i dont have a pic but i need to fix it i hope u understand this good luck.
01-30-2006, 02:11 PM
#4
ill be getting mine at the end of the summer, im having AMS right outside chicago put mine on so they relocate properly, as well as i have an egr and that has to be done perfectly(from what i understand). theyll be $$$ but im having them tune both my cars so ill save a lil bit.
01-30-2006, 02:16 PM
#5
Thanks guys. I just called John at hotshot and he told me that after they heat the headers they spray them down w/water and package them immediately. So sometimes they come wet to hotshot and they have to repackage them. I think its fine to, I guess.
01-30-2006, 02:22 PM
#8
Originally Posted by ColdSHO
ill be getting mine at the end of the summer, im having AMS right outside chicago put mine on so they relocate properly, as well as i have an egr and that has to be done perfectly(from what i understand). theyll be $$$ but im having them tune both my cars so ill save a lil bit.
01-30-2006, 02:24 PM
#10
Originally Posted by The Kid
the exhaust shop has to cut to holes for the sensors and the package should have came with 2 metal pieces that u weld to the pipe and screw the o2 sensors to them. its made for the sensors to screw right in.
01-30-2006, 02:25 PM
#11
Originally Posted by upstatemax
You dont have one. Only 00's and possibly some really early 01's.
01-30-2006, 02:48 PM
#12
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Originally Posted by 03maxima1
o.k. thanks. This might seem like a dumb question but why do you relocate the sensors? I know it has to do w/ the CEL, but why behind the main cat?
The secondary o2 sensors check to see of your pre-cats are working. The headers eliminate them so you will get a CEL if you plug them in before the main cat. I simulated mine because I did not want to extend them behind the main cat.
01-30-2006, 04:45 PM
#15
Originally Posted by NewLoveI30
00' Cali spec cars dont have an EGR either from what I understand... Just thought I'd throw it in there.
01-30-2006, 04:51 PM
#16
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Originally Posted by NewLoveI30
00' Cali spec cars dont have an EGR either from what I understand... Just thought I'd throw it in there.
Yes they do, I have a cali spec with a plugged off EGR and a CEL to back that up
I was told they dont, but when I was installing the headers I quickly found out, yes I do have an EGR.
02-06-2006, 04:12 PM
#18
Originally Posted by Chaser
WITH THE HEADERS AND b-PIPE AND OTHER EXHAUST MODS DOES n e ONE HAVE PROBLEMS PASSING EMMISIONS. I THOUGHT SOME HEADERS WHERE FOR RACING USE ONLY?
I don't know about headers, supposedly you get rid of the o2 sensors, but there are bungs that are made for them. I've heard of people not passing smog with headers on the org.
02-06-2006, 04:49 PM
#20
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Originally Posted by MaxBoost925
You eliminate the precats for sure. I know with a y-pipe, if you have the car warmed up already, with the stock cat on, you will still pass emissions.
I don't know about headers, supposedly you get rid of the o2 sensors, but there are bungs that are made for them. I've heard of people not passing smog with headers on the org.
I don't know about headers, supposedly you get rid of the o2 sensors, but there are bungs that are made for them. I've heard of people not passing smog with headers on the org.
02-06-2006, 05:00 PM
#21
Originally Posted by dextterity
When i went through emissions with a y-pipe, stock cat, 2.5" b-pipe no resonator and stock muffler i passed. I'm sure those with headers or even people without a cat will pass as long as their computer thinks everything is fine because all they do is plug the system up to the cars computer, so just make sure that CEL isn't on
02-06-2006, 05:03 PM
#22
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Posts: 297
Originally Posted by steven88
it's not like that for CALI...they hook your car up to a dyno and stick a sensor into your tailpipe...this will read the amount of NOx, CO, HC, your car is spewing out....if your over the limit, you fail...and I know CALI has a very strict limit...
02-06-2006, 05:39 PM
#23
since i have had my headers, NC went to a obd port inspection but a local shop still had the old emission testing equitment. i asked to run it just to know if it would fail and it actually passed the last year specs that they had. the main cat was still there. i would assume that cali has lower tolerances than NC though.
02-06-2006, 05:58 PM
#24
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Headers
I'm in delaware and they stick a sensor in your exhaust and tell you to run your engine at 2k or 3k rpms for 10 sec if I remember correctly. So I've been a little hesitant with buying any exhaust parts but, it's TAX return time again and the MOD bug has bit. Any suggestions on a good set of headers. I've been looking at Cattman but now Hotshot has a good set also.
02-06-2006, 06:17 PM
#25
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Originally Posted by Chaser
I'm in delaware and they stick a sensor in your exhaust and tell you to run your engine at 2k or 3k rpms for 10 sec if I remember correctly. So I've been a little hesitant with buying any exhaust parts but, it's TAX return time again and the MOD bug has bit. Any suggestions on a good set of headers. I've been looking at Cattman but now Hotshot has a good set also.
It seems a lot of 02-03 guys have been going hotshot, they're price is so much nicer than cattman. I have a 00 and cattman has been the only option for me but just recently because of this thread i see that sloppymax is using the hotshot headers on his 3.0l so I need to learn more about this setup and how it works and who knows i may be getting headers soon.
02-06-2006, 07:20 PM
#26
Originally Posted by steven88
it's not like that for CALI...they hook your car up to a dyno and stick a sensor into your tailpipe...this will read the amount of NOx, CO, HC, your car is spewing out....if your over the limit, you fail...and I know CALI has a very strict limit...
02-06-2006, 07:30 PM
#27
Originally Posted by dextterity
i see that sloppymax is using the hotshot headers on his 3.0l so I need to learn more about this setup and how it works and who knows i may be getting headers soon.
02-06-2006, 07:38 PM
#28
Originally Posted by Puppetmaster
I'm pretty sure that even in CA, if your main cat is working, you will be fine, since the precats are really only there to work the exhaust until the main cat has warmed up fully. But since you have a straight pipe, I really don't know... all the best.
i mean if my main cat is working....i SHOULD be fine....but i dunno, i mean my o2 sensors might overcompensate and make me run real rich....since I believe i run super rich in closed loop...plus they run it on the dyno which makes it even harder to pass...under load conditions are harder to pass than sticking a sniffer in your tailpipe and just revving in neutral
02-06-2006, 09:53 PM
#29
I have ZERO cats on my car, and I passed emissions last year with flying colors. OBDII testing rocks. I don't have rear 02 sensors on my car, runing 02 simulators and heater resistors 
Installation is a breeze with HS, shouldn't take more than 2-3 hours on a 3.5L Maxima. I personally would NOT relocate your 02 sensors behind the main cat, half the time you will end up getting CEL lights for improper 02 readings due to resistance-voltage drop with the LOOOONG 02 sensor wire extenssions. At the same time those 02 sensors are monitoring cat efficiency, they are programmed to read how fast the cats are responding to reducing your HCs, NOx and COs. Since the PRECATs warm up so much quicker than the main cat, you MIGHT be getting some P0420 and P0430 codes.
One6 motorsports eh ? If they ask you HOW to lenghten the 02 sensor wires, they shouldn't be working on your car. Its VERY simple and eassy to do, and I don't even need no friggn service manual to figure out which wire does what and what 02 sensor does what. Personally I wouldn't let ANY speed shop around this area- Chicago, touch ANY Nissan. I have seen way too many fuked up 240SXs, Sentras by ALL the shops around here. AMS is responsible for a few blown KA motors, so is Sound Performance. Only decent shop in Chicagoland area is GRD in Naperville, they also have a DynaPack dynotuning service there- which is better than DynoJet.
Installation is a breeze with HS, shouldn't take more than 2-3 hours on a 3.5L Maxima. I personally would NOT relocate your 02 sensors behind the main cat, half the time you will end up getting CEL lights for improper 02 readings due to resistance-voltage drop with the LOOOONG 02 sensor wire extenssions. At the same time those 02 sensors are monitoring cat efficiency, they are programmed to read how fast the cats are responding to reducing your HCs, NOx and COs. Since the PRECATs warm up so much quicker than the main cat, you MIGHT be getting some P0420 and P0430 codes.
One6 motorsports eh ? If they ask you HOW to lenghten the 02 sensor wires, they shouldn't be working on your car. Its VERY simple and eassy to do, and I don't even need no friggn service manual to figure out which wire does what and what 02 sensor does what. Personally I wouldn't let ANY speed shop around this area- Chicago, touch ANY Nissan. I have seen way too many fuked up 240SXs, Sentras by ALL the shops around here. AMS is responsible for a few blown KA motors, so is Sound Performance. Only decent shop in Chicagoland area is GRD in Naperville, they also have a DynaPack dynotuning service there- which is better than DynoJet.
02-06-2006, 09:59 PM
#30
Originally Posted by BlackBIRDVQ
I have ZERO cats on my car, and I passed emissions last year with flying colors. OBDII testing rocks. I don't have rear 02 sensors on my car, runing 02 simulators and heater resistors
02-06-2006, 10:14 PM
#31
Puppet- PM me bout that as I don't feel like contributing to speed shops success in installing headers- they should know how to do. Can't feed the people all the info ya know, and I don't mind sharing with some of the old timmers
I'm hopping to realize my dream of having a exclussive Nissan ONLY tuning shop some day, till now I am stuck with my dealership job.
I'm hopping to realize my dream of having a exclussive Nissan ONLY tuning shop some day, till now I am stuck with my dealership job.
02-07-2006, 07:22 AM
#32
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Posts: 113
Headers
I 've got a couple questions for ya BlackBird about the headers and the 02 sensor re-wire. I'm going to get my headers in March and just trying to gather as much info as I can before I purchase them. Is it alright to PM you later?
02-07-2006, 08:08 AM
#33
Originally Posted by BlackBIRDVQ
I personally would NOT relocate your 02 sensors behind the main cat, half the time you will end up getting CEL lights for improper 02 readings due to resistance-voltage drop with the LOOOONG 02 sensor wire extenssions. At the same time those 02 sensors are monitoring cat efficiency, they are programmed to read how fast the cats are responding to reducing your HCs, NOx and COs. Since the PRECATs warm up so much quicker than the main cat, you MIGHT be getting some P0420 and P0430 codes.
BlackBIRDVQ I am not challenging your input. You know alot more then I do. I'm just trying to figure out which set up is best. I sent you a PM.
02-07-2006, 08:18 AM
#34
Originally Posted by 03maxima1
Has anyone who has done this had the problems BlackBIRDVQ is talking about?
The O2 sim route is much simpler and easier to do. Thus, if you're not doing the install yourself, it will cost you less. It'll save you from having to weld 2 bungs into your b-pipe, cut & solder, and then tidy up the wires.
Another thing to think about it is if you ever have to switch b-pipes for whatever reason, you'll have to re-weld bungs for your secondary O2 sensors. If you have the means to do that conveniently and easily, that's fine, but its just an extra hassle if you don't.
Performance wise, either method will not make a difference, if that's something else that you're worried about.
IMO, the benefits to extending the secondaries do not outweigh the costs, and I'd rather go with the O2 sims.
02-07-2006, 08:27 AM
#35
Originally Posted by Puppetmaster
I've never had em extended, but just wanted to give ya something else to think about.
The O2 sim route is much simpler and easier to do. Thus, if you're not doing the install yourself, it will cost you less. It'll save you from having to weld 2 bungs into your b-pipe, cut & solder, and then tidy up the wires.
Another thing to think about it is if you ever have to switch b-pipes for whatever reason, you'll have to re-weld bungs for your secondary O2 sensors. If you have the means to do that conveniently and easily, that's fine, but its just an extra hassle if you don't.
Performance wise, either method will not make a difference, if that's something else that you're worried about.
IMO, the benefits to extending the secondaries do not outweigh the costs, and I'd rather go with the O2 sims.
The O2 sim route is much simpler and easier to do. Thus, if you're not doing the install yourself, it will cost you less. It'll save you from having to weld 2 bungs into your b-pipe, cut & solder, and then tidy up the wires.
Another thing to think about it is if you ever have to switch b-pipes for whatever reason, you'll have to re-weld bungs for your secondary O2 sensors. If you have the means to do that conveniently and easily, that's fine, but its just an extra hassle if you don't.
Performance wise, either method will not make a difference, if that's something else that you're worried about.
IMO, the benefits to extending the secondaries do not outweigh the costs, and I'd rather go with the O2 sims.
02-07-2006, 09:05 AM
#36
Originally Posted by 03maxima1
Thanks Puppet, you make good points and I always appreciate your input.
Originally Posted by 03maxima1
But, does it not effect emissions in terms of visual appearance. Where do you put the sensors and the SIM?
Originally Posted by 03maxima1
Also, IceY2K1 made a statement about the Primary Sensors failing and the ECU relying on the SIM. Would that not be a problem?
I'm stilling learning about this so maybe someone else can chime in, but the O2 sim sends a constant signal of around 0.6V or greater, and for the primaries to be properly functioning, the voltage will typically fluctuate between 0.3V to 0.8V, with values closer to 0V indicating a lean condition and values closer to 1V indicating a rich condition. I'm not sure how the ECU will react a constant signal, so this is where my knowledge ends, but my hunch is that it'll throw code for O2 sensor inactivity due to the constant voltage, and then just go into open loop which ignores O2 sensor feedback anyways.
02-07-2006, 09:21 AM
#37
I believe if your primary o2 sensor fails, then the ECU will rely on the secondary....if your secondary is simulated, then it will just get a constant voltage of 0.6V (rich condition)....
I tried it on my car with both primary o2 sensors disconnected and it still ran okay....by disconnecting my front o2s, the ECU will start looking for my secondaries which are simulated....and they run just fine, only with an SES light
I tried it on my car with both primary o2 sensors disconnected and it still ran okay....by disconnecting my front o2s, the ECU will start looking for my secondaries which are simulated....and they run just fine, only with an SES light
02-07-2006, 09:23 AM
#38
Originally Posted by Puppetmaster
Thanks, you're welcome.
Most people ziptie the sensors and the sim under the engine cover. I doubt any emissions inspector would care about that so long as your car is not throwing any codes. Besides, aren't both you and BlackbirdVQ in IL? If he's never had a problem with that, I doubt you will.
You will get a code for either of the primaries failing, so you will know when that happens. Yes, the ECU will try to use the rears, or in this case, the sim, but even with secondaries hooked up, its not something that you want to let go unrectified. If your primaries die, you will need to replace em ASAP, regardless of whether you have the secondaries hooked up or an O2 sim.
I'm stilling learning about this so maybe someone else can chime in, but the O2 sim sends a constant signal of around 0.6V or greater, and for the primaries to be properly functioning, the voltage will typically fluctuate between 0.3V to 0.8V, with values closer to 0V indicating a lean condition and values closer to 1V indicating a rich condition. I'm not sure how the ECU will react a constant signal, so this is where my knowledge ends, but my hunch is that it'll throw code for O2 sensor inactivity due to the constant voltage, and then just go into open loop which ignores O2 sensor feedback anyways.
Most people ziptie the sensors and the sim under the engine cover. I doubt any emissions inspector would care about that so long as your car is not throwing any codes. Besides, aren't both you and BlackbirdVQ in IL? If he's never had a problem with that, I doubt you will.
You will get a code for either of the primaries failing, so you will know when that happens. Yes, the ECU will try to use the rears, or in this case, the sim, but even with secondaries hooked up, its not something that you want to let go unrectified. If your primaries die, you will need to replace em ASAP, regardless of whether you have the secondaries hooked up or an O2 sim.
I'm stilling learning about this so maybe someone else can chime in, but the O2 sim sends a constant signal of around 0.6V or greater, and for the primaries to be properly functioning, the voltage will typically fluctuate between 0.3V to 0.8V, with values closer to 0V indicating a lean condition and values closer to 1V indicating a rich condition. I'm not sure how the ECU will react a constant signal, so this is where my knowledge ends, but my hunch is that it'll throw code for O2 sensor inactivity due to the constant voltage, and then just go into open loop which ignores O2 sensor feedback anyways.
Thanks, I may have the headers installed tomorrow since it is scheduled and wait a while before I decide between the two choices for the sensors.
02-07-2006, 09:24 AM
#39
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I had to run my car for a few weeks with out a single O2 sensor plugged in, nothing simulated and a plugged off EGR (still is plugged off) and it ran fine. I just had a list as long as my arm when we pulled the codes to delete them.
02-07-2006, 09:26 AM
#40
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Originally Posted by 03maxima1
Thanks, I may have the headers installed tomorrow since it is scheduled and wait a while before I decide between the two choices for the sensors.
It takes 1/2 an hour to install the sim, I would really just get one and be done with it. You can hide the sensors and sim if you are worried about a visual inspection. If by any chance you run into a hard azz (I really really doubt it) you can always extend them later.