Today I have finally found some free time to install stage 1 LTB that's been sitting in my garage for over 3 months. Here are a few things I wanted to share with you guys:

Driving impressions:

At low speeds I haven't noticed virtually any difference in the way my car behaves. At highway speeds (45+ mph) and on twisty two lane roads the steering became noticeably more precise.

I also decided to test what difference the LTB makes when the car is driven at the limit of it's cornering abilities. (Note: it was done on a closed road course ) And that's where it has pleasantly surprised me. The steering became MUCH more precise and responsive at the limit. I have never felt so confident taking those tight corners at speed. At one point I even let my tail swing to the side while going a few feet away from the concrete wall.

Ground clearance issue:

I have noticed that many people don't buy LTBs simply because it decreases ground clearance.

Well, let the pics speak for themselves:





As you can see, you will lose at most 1 inch of ground clearance with this mod. Considering that the bar is located right between the front wheels it's almost impossible to scrape it, even with 2 - 2.5 inch drop.

 

nice. Have you considered installing subframe connectors?

 

but wait, isn't your car on ramps in the pix?

 

ya... That's the best way to install it IMO

 

yup, I'm considering SFC... the only problem is, nobody makes it for our cars.

 

, i was just pointing out...you might wanna take a picture of the car when its not on the ramps...so they can see exactly how close to the ground it really is...and possibly setting a cola can near it so people can get an idea?

btw, your on stock suspension?

 

good idea, I'll take a few more pics tomorrow.

ya, I'm still on stock suspension, but I really hope to receive Boss Chens within the next two weeks. lol I told Larry that I want to get them, but he hasn't taken the money yet.

 

so did it give you "F1 handling"?

 

oh trust me, it's ENTIRELY possible to scrape it...in the 3 or 4 months i've owned it, it's happened several times....just go over an uneven road (where the right side of the road is lower than the left) and you'll do the same, although not as easily since you're on stock suspension....

i've hit it so hard once that i knocked it loose from the rear mounting points (i have the stage II) It has a few deep gouges from hitting the road on the very front of it (where your stage I is)

All that aside, however, this is one of the most worth while mods i have done to my car...if you plan on getting an LTB, get the stage II..not only has it helped in the handling dept. substantially, it's also lessened the amount of interior rattles i have, and the ride is MUCH less harsh over bumps...

 

*note to self.

Maxima is not an SUV.

dude, what do you drive on to make it hit that so hard? its only an inch away from the crossmember.

I was freakin slammed and i didnt hit the crossmember ever!

 

 

im think your lying again grant....like your little street racing "i race only at the tracks" lie......i seem to remember a video of you driving pretty fast on the top of a parking structure and you making pretty big sparks with your crossmember....so you need to quit lying and giving people false information grant

 

Hey, how was installation on the stage II?

Could it be done with a jack and jack stands?

Ramps?

Would you say it really is that much better than the stage 1?

J

 

Does anyone know if the stage II ltb will clear a 5.5 gen with headers? I don't have a under front shot of this but the lower part of the rear bank as it passes by the oil pan and meets up with the Y section is my main area of concern. I have been wondering this for awhile as I have done everything else I can think of to increase ride quality and reduce rattles etc. This may be my last mod if someone can tell me it fits.
Anyone?

 

Don't worry, I didn't forget about you. I've been in and out of the country the past few weeks. I will get you your coilovers as soon as possible. I'll let you know once i'm done with them. Thanks for your patience

 

Hopefully I can do something about that. My fabricator is supposed to get the tubing in the mail today and if he does I am bringing the car in today to start fabrication.

The LTB looks nice there but now your not gonna be able to get headers. Thats the only thing stopping me from getting it.

 

contact matt blehm. he says there are some issues, but it will clear the o2 sensor bung if i'ts re-welded. i don't think the headers themselves interfere.

 

It seem like the front part of stage II is actually lower than the stage I bar. I'm ganna take a couple of pics when the car is not on the ramps to show that the ground clearance lost with stage one is virtually insignificant. (I can't even stick my finger between the bar and the y-pipe.)

no problem man! I totally understand why it takes that long.

BTW, you have basically answered my question that I PMed to your other account.

I just can't wait to receive them.

 

well Louisiana is notorious for having crappy roads, and the road i used to live off of was one of the worst....there were several 'filled' potholes on the right side of the road, and if there was another car coming in the opposite lane, i would either have to stop and wait, or let it hit...i found that out the hard way....

and btw, no it's not just 1" away from the cross memeber....it's probably about 2 or 3" away from it





yeah it can easily be done on jackstands...the only problem i had was stripping out the tap on one of the rear mounting points, but i re-tapped it and it's fine now...I would definitely say the Stage II is worth it, because it ties the steering into the frame, which helps with both the steering response and the ride quality...



I've heard that the LTB does not fit with headers, but iirc, it was only tested with the cattman Gen-II headers....

That's interesting that you say that, because matt says on his website that you lose no ground clearance going from the stage I to the Stage II LTB....I always thought that the Stage II was just a modified Stage I bar...

 

here're a two more pics:





I might be wrong, but to me it just looks like stage II is a little lower. Check our Irish's car: (it's stage II with the rear cut off)

 

oh wow, that looks real low...i mean, considering your stock suspension...and most people out there have at least a 1 inch drop...i can just imagine how closer it would be to the ground...

not sure if this would be a good streetable product discussion guys?

 

Stage I and II are the same....that pic is deceiving because:'
1. I'm cornering
2. I'm lowered
3. The wheels/tires on the car are smaller than stock diameter, so it sits lower.

I've only scraped the bar ONCE, ever, and that was while straddling a ridge/curb in a parking lot.

 

this is mine now with the h-techs...as you can see, it sits much much lower than the rest of the undercarriage...

i'm not saying that i scrape it all the time or anything, but i have done it quite a bit, especially on roads that i'm not familiar with...it's very 'streetable' but you have to be careful just like you would normally when having a dropped car...

EDIT: when i get home to louisiana (i'm in arizona until the 8th of july) i'll take some pictures of the places i've scraped my LTB, and you'll see why...haha

 

holy rusted heat shield!!!

 

Well this "LTB" is new to me; I'm guessin it means "Lower Tie Bar". I've never seen it being sold, and besides what are the benifits on a totally stock suspention? Someone did mention letting the backswing out near a wall.

Thanks in advance and sorry for acting like a newbie!

 

here you go
http://www.mattblehm.com/suspension.htm

 

Thanks Soonerfan; howmany people are running it on a Stock suspention?

 

Neither stage LTB will fit with Cattman Gen 2 headers.

I did a test fit and this is how short I came:



When I get some time I'll be sending Matt some measurements to see if we can make a LTB that does fit.

 

Have you tried bending it slightly? I'm not sure how it looks on the driver's side of the car, but according to this pic, there's a chance you could make it fit...

 

If you bend it to clear the y-pipe, it won't reach the LCA on either side (since you should prob bend both sides to make it even). The length of the bar has to be increased as well as the angle and this will also make it less effective and reduce ground clearance.

 

It's not a matter of just bending it. It would be short like half an inch.

 

exactly.

 

Wow thats really close. This gives me new hope. The LTB can deff be made to fit with the headers. I am deff going to get the headers and LTB

 

That's the thing... I don't think it has to be even. The bends on each side are not the same even on the original bar. (the way it comes from Matt) So if you decrease the angle of the passenger side bend and increase the angle of the driver side bend, the LTB will reach to both LCAs.

 

Just a thoought...Advanced Suspention area is needed.

 

Just getting it to bolt up doesn't mean it fits properly. If there is not at least ~1" of clearance you are gonna hear more banging than anyone can stand as the engine rocks back and forth on it mounts, unless of course you have urethane mounts and in that case at least 1/2" clearance would still be recommended.

After looking at the tie in points of this LTB stage II and I for that matter, it seems to me that the benefits of this are mostly psychological. The large, very sturdy, black subframe, which the FSMs call a suspension member, is extremely robust and it is highly unlikely that it flexes much, maybe ~0.5mm in extreme driving circumstances. The 4 bolting points where the Stage II LTB connects, are already effectively connected to this suspension member and is attached very securely already. Both bush pins have 4 ~18mm bolts holding them to this susp member, at least the 5th gens and up have this, and in the rear of the transverse link, "LCA", the pivoting bushing is held in by 2 more ~18mm bolts each which hold the aluminum brackets in place.

My point is that if you are driving like Irish does, in competition etc., maybe this LTB would be worthy investment as a final suspension mod. But for those on stock suspensions and haven't upgraded with rsb, fstb, struts, springs, then I would hold off on this. SFC's for our unibody cars are going to yield a much better tangible benefit then the LTB. For those out there with headers, the benefits would likely be immeasureable due to the fitment limitations and modifications necessary for it to fit properly, which would also further reduce of ground clearance.

 

Please fill me in on that last one, whats an SFC?

 

Mine is less 1/2" away from the stock y-pipe and I don't hear any banging...

As for LTB effectiveness (stage 1 in my case,) it makes most of the difference when you go around the corner at the limit of your car's abilities, but you can still feel the difference during normal driving.

BTW, keep in mind that I am not lowered and I only got all-season tires.

 

SubFrame Connectors

 

Subframe connectors, much like the LTB, but usually make an "X". They are notorious on modded mustangs/f-bodies. Doing things to tighten the chassis of the car like LTB, SFC, strut tower bars(functional ones, not the ones that are just for looks :P) will help the handling of the car immensley.

While the LTB doesn't sit extremely low, being in Louisiana I can see that getting scraped on a daily driver without going offroading. Then gain, driving on the road in Louisiana is like going offroading.