Brake job this sunday did not go smooth... something seems to be wrong: at first, after a quick 20 min install, i went to test the car and I had something hitting the wheel. It seemed to be the metal tabs that lock inside the retaining clips in the sotckies, but the hawks do not have them clips, so I had to bend them out of the way.


Another issue is the brakes are scracthing big time. From what I read, it is "normal" and it should go away with time, i only rode the car like 2 miles because it was loud and i wasnt sure if it normal. I want to check with you guys before driving it like hell and realizing something is off.


And thirdly, the pedal does not get firm. I didnt do anything with brake fluids, but somehow it feels spongy and like air got in (how?). The pedal is not firm (more like the opposite) and I think the solution here is bleeding it. Or is there anything else?


and lastly, the stock shims were not the right size for the new pads, so i left them out. Are they required?


Here are the stock pads x hawk pads. The stockies have a retaining clips on all of them where the hawks only on two out of 4 pads. Pictures show 2 sotckies and 2 hawks:







This piece (not sure about the name) has some little tabs that went inside the retaining clip on the stockies, but WON'T FIT on the hawks.




This is what I had to do: bend the little tabs so they wont hit the rims:





Any inputs?


thanks in advance!

 

after the install did u pump ur brakes?
also i see u have new rotors, did u clean them? cause when u buy new rotors they usually have some kind of anti rust coting on them.

 

according to this image there is a metal shim missing on the bottom!

 

Bleeding the brakes will get the feel back.

 

I did not clean them, i wansnt even aware of that. I drove the car back home (2 miles), can I still clean them? If so, what is the proper procedure?

 

REFERRING TO RIGHT HAND SIDE BRAKE:

The bottom one does not have the same metal clips as the top, IIRC. Inner and outer have the reatinign clip only on TOP, not on bottom. That picture shows hoa I had to bend the clips to avoid hitting the rims.

Also, I only put back one shim per 2 pads, because the shims were bigger than the pads.


So originally I had 4 stock shims, but only used 2.

 

Shims are not needed. You will get back the pedal feel after a while of use.

 

Soap and water... I hear the hawk pads are extremely loud though but I would think it is to late to wash it off. Probrobly already burned off what ever was on there.

 

there are different shims:
1. is the shim that goes on brake pad itself
2. is the shim that goes on caliper bracket, that is where the pads slide on,
and you see where i put an arrow,
and if you don't put the shim on the bottom, then pads won't slide properly.

and about cleaning, you take brake cleaner and spray the rotor and wipe it down and you take sand paper and sand the brake pads a little bit

MacAlert said you don't need shims, you think nissan engineers just put those shims there for nothing?!

 

This really isnt enough. You need to scrub the rotor face pretty good. There is an oil on it that takes a bit of scrubbing to get it off.

I unpack the rotor. Use dawn and a stiff bristle brush and really scrub it. Then I use Brake Cleaner and a couple paper towels to rinse off the possible fingerprints and water left behind. At this poing I never let the rotor touch anything other than the hub and only handle it by the hat.

Since the OP already mounted the rotors and pads there is no point in doing this now.


Why the sandpaper to the pad? To break in the surface?

 

since he didn't clean rotors at first place he needs sandpaper the pads to clean the surface from the "oil" that got there from the rotor....

 

yea you have to bleed the breaks every time you work on them.

 

i didnt do anything with the hoese or the fluids... I thought u only needed to bleed them when opening the fluid circuit..

 

You can achieve the same effect by following the break-in procedures for both pads and rotors, especially since you already have the rotors put in.

Bleeding the brakes are not necessary if you'd had them done recently.

 

I completely disagree, I've done literally hundreds of brake jobs and never used anything but brake cleaner on the new rotors and its just fine like that. I do use the brake cleaner liberally.

 

That's correct. Pushing the piston back in forces the fluid up (or overflows it) in the reservoir but does NOT require you to bleed the brakes.

 

To each their own. I put the extra 5 minutes in to make sure the surface is prepared correctly.

 

i disagree. you don't need to do that unless u wanna change the capiler or the brake fluids.

 

Wow....tons of mis-guidance and mis-information in this thread. But to each their own....

1. You need the two end shims (the ones where you bent the clip). I'm not sure why you would need to bend the clip as your wheels had clearance before and not after. The pads should fit inside the clips and there should be enough tension on the clip to push the pad away from the rotor while moving freely. If this is not happening then you have an issue with the installation, the clip, or the pad itself.

2. Always a good practice to remove the boot on the slide pins, clean, check for tears, and re-grease the slide pins. These are the slide pins on the calipers. You can see two small rubber boots around them. These allow the caliper to slide back and forth smoothly. If they get stuck the caliper can freeze up on the rotor.

3. Rotor and pad preparation is a good practice, but may not be necessary depending on the type of rotor and pads you buy. Usually with rotors you only have to use brake cleaner and wipe them down to remove any oils that may be leftover or accumulated. The pads may need some abrasino to remove any glazing. Just some light sanding should take care of this.

4. Brake bleeding should be done at least every 2 years. Moisture accumulates in brake fluid fairly easily and overtime if left alone long enough can rust out the internal parts of your brake system. Mileage doesn't really matter with this, just the time, and 2 years is a recommended interval. If you wish to do more often great, but not necessary.

5. Bedding brakes or breaking them in. There are a few different procedures with this. The procedure I use is to make runs up to 40MPH and use moderate pressure on the brakes to come to almost a complete stop, but not totally stop. Do this 10 times, then do it another 10 times with heavy pressure. I've never had any brake squealing or screetching issues after doing this.

6. Soft pedal? Normally it is introduction of air into the brake system. When you worked on them did you crack the brake fluid reservoir? Perhaps you forgotten to tighten it. If that isn't the case then it is likely you have a small leak somewhere in the lines. Check and monitor your brake fluid level to see if it goes down. If the reservoir cap is tight and the fluid level doesn't go down then bleed the brakes and see if that improves it. If not it is likely the master cylinder is the issue.

Good luck.....

 

The stock pads HAD a place to insert the metal clips, now the Hawk HPS doesnt, so they were sticking out and hitting the rims. Should I contact the maxima org member selling those pads and confirm how to install them? I thought the HPS were preference here in the ORG and therefore a perfect fit. But you can see in the pictures that the HPS do not have the little metal tab to have the clips inserted in them.. and to make things worse, the two pads that do have the little tabs, have very small tabs and cannot acommodate the clips in them.

now, regarding the shims that go on the face of the pads, only two of the stockies fit the new pads, the other two are loose so i didnt put them in.


I didnt regresese them, but I checked and they run freely and no tears.


This has to be done, i totally didnt know that.



this also has to be done and I havent done it for 4 years... so yes... I am overdue on this. ( ouch!)



I was about to do that when i heard the "rusty" noises and the cyclic noise of something hitting the rims... that was when I quit the process, took the rims off, noticed that the clips were hitting the wheels, took some pictures and posted on the org. The cars been sitting since that. I've put less than 2 miles in it.



I did not touch the reservoir. I will keep an eye on it, but like u said: bleeding should be done every 2 years, and I am sure i havent done it for the past 4 years. so hopefully it is just condensation that built up.



<-- BB

 

Yes check with the person you purchased the pads from. I don't have any specific experience with Hawk pads, but they should be a direct fit without any bending of the shims or clips.

 

i too have hawk HPS pads and have the same issue with the little clip coming out, and i think it may be hitting my rims.. they were like that when i bought the car (used) and the nissan guy said they were put on incorrectly.. i didnt see any way to ben them though.. as far as the bedding in process.. my brakes sqeak and grind like a b*tch when they get warm, and nobody seems to be able to help me in other threads.. i've used all types of grease and anti-squeak crap, and no results.. i think i bed them in incorrectly though by coming to a complete stop, so if i re-bed them using your method, will that make a difference?

 

So every mechanic I've ever known was wrong? DAMNIT JIM, they all LIE!

Dude, I used to be a mechanic, I did this for a living and it was damn important for liability reasons that we did things correctly, obviously brakes are extremely important to get right. I never wanted ANYTHING to touch the new rotors other than the brake pads, brake cleaner will get off the oil that covers them from China to here. I want a perfect surface for the pads to mate up to. Machined rotors that are never touched by anything are about as perfect as I can imagine. Certainly not dirty rags with metal frags and all kinds of crap embedded in them rubbing over the surface.

But I'm glad you do it 'properly' and I'm incorrect. I love backyard mechanics ;-)

 

I didn't read the whole post, it got really deep about three or five posts in...

Those metals tabs, IIRC, on the last few brake jobs I did, keep the pad from sticking to rotor in the "braked" position and let it return to rest by keeping tension via the torque member. Somehow you got damaged pads, or damaged those tabs in install.

 

the hawk hps pads I got from Json didnt have the little clips to accomodate the tabs... or more correctly: 2 out of 4 pads had it, but even the ones that had them did have the proper clips.

 

I just went out and looked at my rear pads, i do have the shim/clip for both ends of the caliper. The pads itself only has one of the protruding tab, the others don't. Although i don't have any of the issues you mention.

 

It's painfully obvious that you don't know jack about doing brakes so it's probably in your car's best interest and your wallet to take your car to a brake shop and have them fix the problem. Brakes are a serious concern and need to be done right, forget trying to save money, take your pads, rotors and whatever else you bought and go to your local shop and pay them to get it right.

 

The whole issue started because I assumed the pads were right, and apparently THEY WERE NOT!


I needed all front pads to have the retaining clip, not only two of them. Confirmed by my pictures, FSM & dealer convo.







I am now talking to Jason (AutoMax) trying to exchange pads.

 

A set of Hawk pads only has two pads with the retaining clip. You have the right pads.

 

that is exactly the whole point: all nissan info that i've checked, including dealer service parts and another 5th gen maxima that i physically checked last night, have all front pads with retaining clips. that is what it is.


Now, if people been installing only two pads with it and getting it to work, fine. You could also drive your car with your knees instead of your hands, but it doesnt mean you should.

I am paying top money for these pads, and if the pad retainer clip was designed to force BOTH pads away from the rotor (as opposed to only one pad), then I want to keep it as designed. Hecka, how is the pad retainer clip function properly if only one pad is attached to it?

 

within 500 miles of travel my rotor (disk) went from having some scoring on the outer 1/4 inch of the disc to being score all across the disc. i hate having rotor turned (made smooth). so i usually just have the new pads put on the calipers and the calipers put back on the disk. this time the rotor might be scored beyond specification and have to be replaced ($40 part new). usually the disk is slightly wavy...well more wavy than slightly, but this time the scoring is distinct grooves. so, if the rotor is fatter than min spec, and i install new pad without turning the rotor, doesn't the new pad simply grab the spots (circles) of the disc which are closest to the pad? if your response were to be the spots will cut into the new pads, then wouldn't the pad form to the shape of the grooves and at that point provide 100% contact between pads and disk? those specifications for rotor min thickness seem so minute, i wonder how dangerous it might be to use rotors which are thinner than min spec yet fairly close to the spec?

i was surprised how my disk got scored. i stupidly thought the problem was only at the outside 1/4 inch of the disc. pepboys tells me the caliper was frozen. a new caliper is also $40 but i am wondering if it is an obvious easy fix of the caliper (as mentioned above, maybe a slide pin needs grease.) i was told labor rate for replacing caliper, which includes attaching fluid hoses) is $75. i wonder if pepboys would attempt to justify charging additional labor for changing the pads?!! tell me your thoughts. try to address each of my points above! thx

 

Only did a couple but

 

Probably should've started a new thread... hah.

When doing a brake job... Always:

Replace pads
Resurface or replace rotors
Re-lube all moving parts

#2 is not an option if you want safe operation. Having a new pad touch an old rotor does not yield best results. Yes they may eventually work in together, but rotors are inexpensive, and new is always better.

 

Those "retaining clips" on the pads which you are so worried about aren't "retaining clips" at all! They are the wear indicators on the pads. When the pads wear down to the replacement point, those "retaining clips" scratch on the rotors to make a noticable and annoying screeching noise - on purpose! Fitment wise, they have nothing at all to do with the performance or correctness of the pads. I agree that it's nice to have them on all the pads, to keep the retractor clips neatly tied down, but it's far from "required." If your retractor clips are hitting the wheels, then take a pair of pliers and bend them out of the way. Why oh why hasn't anyone pointed this out yet?

As to the other issues: 1) you've already most likely burned any coating off the rotors. A good dousing with brake cleaner might still be useful at this point, but it probably won't. It certainly won't hurt anything. What WILL help is to do a proper bedding procedure on the pads. I'm not going to take the time to search it out for you, as you can do that for yourself.

2) In most (99.9%) cases, you only "need" to bleed the brakes (or other hydraulic system) if you've opened the system. Simply retracting the pistons to change pads does not constitute opening the system. Letting the master cylinder run dry WOULD constitute opening the system and would therefore warrant bleeding. If you've not opened the system, then bleeding wouldn't hurt anything, but it's likely not going to help anything either. The sole purpose of bleeding is to get air out of the system, because air is compressible, where brake (or other hydraulic) fluid is not. Flushing the brake fluid periodically is a separate issue, and it is of course recommended.

3) The flat shims on the backs of the pads should be reinstalled, but it's not "required" to make the brakes work. They are put there to help control brake squeaking. If they're loose, then "glue" them onto the backs of the pads with brake anti-squeal compound (it's usually blue and very sticky, and it dries firm but flexible.)

4) The caliper pins do need greasing. You should pull them out, clean them up, and regrease them every time you change pads. If they don't slide freely, then your caliper is essentially frozen.

 

What kind of grease to use on sliding pins?

 

Those rotors look like zinc coated rotors. Once you get the brake pad issue solved, you need to properly break in the rotors. You have to do a series of hard stops without stopping completely and then drive a few miles to let them cool down. If you stop completely you will warp your rotors. I would guess 5 hard breakings, should do the trick. The zinc plating is what is making some of your noise. Its bunching up on the pad. By doing this you burn off the zinc plating and propperly dress the rotor.

 

the rotor (disc) is scored across the whole zone where the outside pad will contact, but the thinnest depth of the disc is 790 and min specification is 787. (the driver side disk is 820). i want to install new pads and leave the scored disc as is. this way i'll see what condition the disc is next time i change the pads. (do the pads alone smooth out some of the scored metal of the disc?)

the mechanic told me the caliper had frozen. he thinks there might be a problem in one of the "pistons". i had the brake cylinder replaced last time i had the brake pads installed. cylinder and piston are same thing. the cylinder might have lifetime warranty. there's no leaking brake fluid. mechanic says a "piston" can come apart and the fluid remain sealed while failing to operate the caliper. so i think i want to replace the "piston" (cylinder). but pepboys might refuse to provide the labor on the basis of liability. any thoughts you have?

 

Jayboy, putting on new pads will smooth it out a little, probably not enough to notice. Sounds like one of your calipers might be bad, sounds like it sticking. I just replaced the pads on my fronts and left the disc's alone, take a look

 

If you have a 2002 Maxima with the stock 17 inch wheels just get the 2004 caliper, caliper bracket, rotors and pads. Good to go. I got my 2004 calipers from a salvage yard and they work like a charm. No more whobble on braking and the feel is incredible.

 

thanks tberg, i can't tell how much scoring your disc has other than the outside 1/2 inch. yeah, my caliper froze. but if i can isolate why the caliper froze, i'll consider myself more knowledgeable about the situation. so if the brake cylinder is not working (yet not leaking fluid), maybe i can simply change the cylinder to correct the caliper. my situation was confused (i'm obsessive and sometimes can't isolate trees from my knowledge of a forest) by pepboys not having the record of prior repair in their data system AND their not being able to confirm that the pads on the car were sold by Pepboys! plus another piece of my confusion is that i don't drive the car much. i have a 1.8 liter v-twin fuel injected motorcycle which i ride for the avg 10 miles a day i travel. so with the car being a home body, i screwed up and let the disc get scored when i should have known how quickly the disc can get abused and i should have observed the pad being worn down completely. for some reason the guy at pepboys removed the shoes from the driver's side but left the shoes mounted on the disc on the passenger side when i initially went to pepboys for the diagnostic three months ago. had the passenger side pads been removed, i'd have no doubts what the situation was three mos ago.