TSB NTB02-051a (P0138)
05-15-2016, 03:17 AM
#4
At this point in time, I think you have a simple O2 sensor failure. O2 sensors don't last forever.
Nissan was a bit over-sensitive on the monitoring which would cause the code to pop up intermittently and re-programming the ECU would stop that (supposedly). Toss in the fact that you have a rebuilt ECU and I bet you have the new programming.
Nissan was a bit over-sensitive on the monitoring which would cause the code to pop up intermittently and re-programming the ECU would stop that (supposedly). Toss in the fact that you have a rebuilt ECU and I bet you have the new programming.
05-15-2016, 03:24 AM
#5
at this point in time, i think you have a simple o2 sensor failure. O2 sensors don't last forever.
Nissan was a bit over-sensitive on the monitoring which would cause the code to pop up intermittently and re-programming the ecu would stop that (supposedly). Toss in the fact that you have a rebuilt ecu and i bet you have the new programming.
Nissan was a bit over-sensitive on the monitoring which would cause the code to pop up intermittently and re-programming the ecu would stop that (supposedly). Toss in the fact that you have a rebuilt ecu and i bet you have the new programming.
05-15-2016, 03:47 PM
#6
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At this point in time, I think you have a simple O2 sensor failure. O2 sensors don't last forever.
Nissan was a bit over-sensitive on the monitoring which would cause the code to pop up intermittently and re-programming the ECU would stop that (supposedly). Toss in the fact that you have a rebuilt ECU and I bet you have the new programming.
Nissan was a bit over-sensitive on the monitoring which would cause the code to pop up intermittently and re-programming the ECU would stop that (supposedly). Toss in the fact that you have a rebuilt ECU and I bet you have the new programming.
05-15-2016, 05:17 PM
#7
I started getting the P0138 on my 2k Max after about 110K miles. If the re-programming of the ECU was so critically important, I would have expected to get the code a lot earlier. Since the TSB is dated back in 2002, that means that some cars were getting the code real early mileage wise.
As for that airflow meter stuff, I don't know how to tell a car with it and without it. So as I said, I think this is more of a natural failure. If you want to play it safe, then go have the dealer re-program your ECU.
As for that airflow meter stuff, I don't know how to tell a car with it and without it. So as I said, I think this is more of a natural failure. If you want to play it safe, then go have the dealer re-program your ECU.
05-15-2016, 07:03 PM
#8
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Bridgestone already took care of the P0138 with out the update. Three weeks later... ECU fried. Not connecting the two however the damage... IACV circuit. What would anyone think? Just a coincidence?
Who wouldn't want to play it safe?
Nissan claims engine mounts shorted IACV circuit.
I never accused anyone of anything however I don't want to re-live this nightmare.
It is very possible that there was a coincidence and the ECM/IACV whatever it was would've inevitably went out anyway.
Who wouldn't want to play it safe?
Nissan claims engine mounts shorted IACV circuit.
I never accused anyone of anything however I don't want to re-live this nightmare.
It is very possible that there was a coincidence and the ECM/IACV whatever it was would've inevitably went out anyway.
Last edited by maximatech12; 05-16-2016 at 02:19 AM.
05-16-2016, 04:40 AM
#10
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Because it's buried under the duct I can't even see the thing your talking about.
I just assumed the engineer would've had the sense to prevent that.
If that's the case every Maxima owner that ever bought one will have this issue! P0505
I am in the process of moving on from it.
I just assumed the engineer would've had the sense to prevent that.
If that's the case every Maxima owner that ever bought one will have this issue! P0505
I am in the process of moving on from it.
05-16-2016, 10:45 AM
#12
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Id love to believe its just coolant but Even the damage to the driver that maxiiiboy illustrated would've burned all the way back to the ground. There is no way the 15 amp fuse wouldn't have blown first. It's got to be driver issues from skipping an update or not updating the drivers.
You can see plain that the driver is damaged. Please make some sense here I can't take it.
I just bought 7.5 amp fuses and I'm beginning to suffer from the same symptom maxiiiboy suffers from!
You can see plain that the driver is damaged. Please make some sense here I can't take it.
I just bought 7.5 amp fuses and I'm beginning to suffer from the same symptom maxiiiboy suffers from!
Last edited by maximatech12; 05-16-2016 at 10:58 AM.
05-16-2016, 05:07 PM
#13
It is unfortunate timing that the IACV shorted out and took the ECU with it. As it has been stated, it happens to many of these cars. A lot of the members here bypassed the coolant around the IACV to prevent this. But Nissan did design this wonderful time bomb into the cars.
Maxiiiboy spent a lot of time figuring out figuring out how to fuse the circuits so that it doesn't destroy the ECU. He has had good luck with his design but will be the first to tell you that he can't guarantee that it is 100% foolproof. FWIW, the transistors in the STA509A chip are designed to handle a 3 amp constant current with a 6 amp surge that lasts less than 100 microseconds. You need to look at the specifications for those fuses you bought and see what the reaction time is, i.e., how much current (amps) will cause them to blow and how quickly will they blow. Fuses are made to all different standards in this area. Basically, there are slow blow, regular and fast blow fuses. You would want the fast blow.
Maxiiiboy spent a lot of time figuring out figuring out how to fuse the circuits so that it doesn't destroy the ECU. He has had good luck with his design but will be the first to tell you that he can't guarantee that it is 100% foolproof. FWIW, the transistors in the STA509A chip are designed to handle a 3 amp constant current with a 6 amp surge that lasts less than 100 microseconds. You need to look at the specifications for those fuses you bought and see what the reaction time is, i.e., how much current (amps) will cause them to blow and how quickly will they blow. Fuses are made to all different standards in this area. Basically, there are slow blow, regular and fast blow fuses. You would want the fast blow.
05-16-2016, 09:17 PM
#14
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Id love to believe its just coolant but Even the damage to the driver that maxiiiboy illustrated would've burned all the way back to the ground. There is no way the 15 amp fuse wouldn't have blown first. It's got to be driver issues from skipping an update or not updating the drivers.
With the OEM wiring, the 15A fuse (or the 7.5A fuse) can't protect the STA509A because this transistor can only sustain a 3A load (or a 6A load in pulse mode). There are several other devices on this fuse, and they may draw enough current so that a 7.5A fuse is required - as my experiments have shown. However, we can't guarantee that these devices will be always drawing at least (12-3)A = 9A at all times. (Or, with 7.5A fuse: 7.5-3=4.5A at all times). That's the problem!
..... the transistors in the STA509A chip are designed to handle a 3 amp constant current with a 6 amp surge that lasts less than 100 microseconds. You need to look at the specifications for those fuses you bought and see what the reaction time is, i.e., how much current (amps) will cause them to blow and how quickly will they blow. Fuses are made to all different standards in this area. Basically, there are slow blow, regular and fast blow fuses. You would want the fast blow.
Unfortunately, the only way to implement proper fusing is to cut/splice the wiring harness. I am coming to the conclusions that this might not be such a bad idea after all, but I heaven't done it yet.
I need to update my document first. I should do it soon. (If only there was a simpler way to edit those darned .pdf diagrams).
Final note: The "IACV problem" and the "Engine mount problem" have NOTHING in common. NOTHING! The Engine mounts and the IACV are driven by two different transistor drivers within the ECU, and are powered by two different power circuits and two different fuses. So, please: Do NOT mix up the two - you are just confusing the issues and ruining the conversation at hand.
05-20-2016, 10:48 PM
#15
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It is unfortunate timing that the IACV shorted out and took the ECU with it. As it has been stated, it happens to many of these cars. A lot of the members here bypassed the coolant around the IACV to prevent this. But Nissan did design this wonderful time bomb into the cars.
Maxiiiboy spent a lot of time figuring out figuring out how to fuse the circuits so that it doesn't destroy the ECU. He has had good luck with his design but will be the first to tell you that he can't guarantee that it is 100% foolproof. FWIW, the transistors in the STA509A chip are designed to handle a 3 amp constant current with a 6 amp surge that lasts less than 100 microseconds. You need to look at the specifications for those fuses you bought and see what the reaction time is, i.e., how much current (amps) will cause them to blow and how quickly will they blow. Fuses are made to all different standards in this area. Basically, there are slow blow, regular and fast blow fuses. You would want the fast blow.
Maxiiiboy spent a lot of time figuring out figuring out how to fuse the circuits so that it doesn't destroy the ECU. He has had good luck with his design but will be the first to tell you that he can't guarantee that it is 100% foolproof. FWIW, the transistors in the STA509A chip are designed to handle a 3 amp constant current with a 6 amp surge that lasts less than 100 microseconds. You need to look at the specifications for those fuses you bought and see what the reaction time is, i.e., how much current (amps) will cause them to blow and how quickly will they blow. Fuses are made to all different standards in this area. Basically, there are slow blow, regular and fast blow fuses. You would want the fast blow.
05-21-2016, 07:12 PM
#17
1) the chamber where the stepper motor is held is sealed better so that the coolant shouldn't get in and
2) the coating that insulates the wires is supposedly better so that the antifreeze won't eat through it.
Even if these 2 things are not true, think about this - it took 15 or so years to become a problem. Do you expect to have the car in the year 2030?
05-22-2016, 12:55 AM
#18
The replacement parts are supposed to be built with improvements in 2 areas.
1) the chamber where the stepper motor is held is sealed better so that the coolant shouldn't get in and
2) the coating that insulates the wires is supposedly better so that the antifreeze won't eat through it.
Even if these 2 things are not true, think about this - it took 15 or so years to become a problem. Do you expect to have the car in the year 2030?
1) the chamber where the stepper motor is held is sealed better so that the coolant shouldn't get in and
2) the coating that insulates the wires is supposedly better so that the antifreeze won't eat through it.
Even if these 2 things are not true, think about this - it took 15 or so years to become a problem. Do you expect to have the car in the year 2030?
06-01-2016, 09:21 AM
#19
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Your argument above does not make any sense. None.
With the OEM wiring, the 15A fuse (or the 7.5A fuse) can't protect the STA509A because this transistor can only sustain a 3A load (or a 6A load in pulse mode). There are several other devices on this fuse, and they may draw enough current so that a 7.5A fuse is required - as my experiments have shown. However, we can't guarantee that these devices will be always drawing at least (12-3)A = 9A at all times. (Or, with 7.5A fuse: 7.5-3=4.5A at all times). That's the problem!
Right on, Dennis.
Unfortunately, the only way to implement proper fusing is to cut/splice the wiring harness. I am coming to the conclusions that this might not be such a bad idea after all, but I heaven't done it yet.
I need to update my document first. I should do it soon. (If only there was a simpler way to edit those darned .pdf diagrams).
Final note: The "IACV problem" and the "Engine mount problem" have NOTHING in common. NOTHING! The Engine mounts and the IACV are driven by two different transistor drivers within the ECU, and are powered by two different power circuits and two different fuses. So, please: Do NOT mix up the two - you are just confusing the issues and ruining the conversation at hand.
With the OEM wiring, the 15A fuse (or the 7.5A fuse) can't protect the STA509A because this transistor can only sustain a 3A load (or a 6A load in pulse mode). There are several other devices on this fuse, and they may draw enough current so that a 7.5A fuse is required - as my experiments have shown. However, we can't guarantee that these devices will be always drawing at least (12-3)A = 9A at all times. (Or, with 7.5A fuse: 7.5-3=4.5A at all times). That's the problem!
Right on, Dennis.
Unfortunately, the only way to implement proper fusing is to cut/splice the wiring harness. I am coming to the conclusions that this might not be such a bad idea after all, but I heaven't done it yet.
I need to update my document first. I should do it soon. (If only there was a simpler way to edit those darned .pdf diagrams).
Final note: The "IACV problem" and the "Engine mount problem" have NOTHING in common. NOTHING! The Engine mounts and the IACV are driven by two different transistor drivers within the ECU, and are powered by two different power circuits and two different fuses. So, please: Do NOT mix up the two - you are just confusing the issues and ruining the conversation at hand.
What's your views on this?
06-01-2016, 09:55 AM
#20
06-01-2016, 10:12 AM
#23
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I wasn't looking for advise to damage my battery buddy I was reasonably discussing the damage to my ECM.
you and maxiiiboy have been damaging the reputation of the Org. by putting your cheap comments on every thread I comment on.
you and maxiiiboy have been damaging the reputation of the Org. by putting your cheap comments on every thread I comment on.
06-01-2016, 11:36 AM
#24
maxiiiboy and cornholio are well respected members of the Org. If anyone's hurting the reputation here it's you with your off the wall questions, ideas and accusations.
Spend some time reading and learning the very basics of what we're talking about before putting together these elaborate theories. Do you even know what a fuse is, does or doesn't do?
06-01-2016, 01:06 PM
#25
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Are you kidding!?!?
maxiiiboy and cornholio are well respected members of the Org. If anyone's hurting the reputation here it's you with your off the wall questions, ideas and accusations.
Spend some time reading and learning the very basics of what we're talking about before putting together these elaborate theories. Do you even know what a fuse is, does or doesn't do?
maxiiiboy and cornholio are well respected members of the Org. If anyone's hurting the reputation here it's you with your off the wall questions, ideas and accusations.
Spend some time reading and learning the very basics of what we're talking about before putting together these elaborate theories. Do you even know what a fuse is, does or doesn't do?
don't post as though your an automotive electrical engineer anymore if your not. Obviously the battery is damaged and it's probably because maxiiiboy posted to alter the fusing and I listened to him.
06-01-2016, 01:08 PM
#26
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Are you kidding!?!?
maxiiiboy and cornholio are well respected members of the Org. If anyone's hurting the reputation here it's you with your off the wall questions, ideas and accusations.
Spend some time reading and learning the very basics of what we're talking about before putting together these elaborate theories. Do you even know what a fuse is, does or doesn't do?
maxiiiboy and cornholio are well respected members of the Org. If anyone's hurting the reputation here it's you with your off the wall questions, ideas and accusations.
Spend some time reading and learning the very basics of what we're talking about before putting together these elaborate theories. Do you even know what a fuse is, does or doesn't do?
06-01-2016, 02:03 PM
#27
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Are you kidding!?!?
maxiiiboy and cornholio are well respected members of the Org. If anyone's hurting the reputation here it's you with your off the wall questions, ideas and accusations.
Spend some time reading and learning the very basics of what we're talking about before putting together these elaborate theories. Do you even know what a fuse is, does or doesn't do?
maxiiiboy and cornholio are well respected members of the Org. If anyone's hurting the reputation here it's you with your off the wall questions, ideas and accusations.
Spend some time reading and learning the very basics of what we're talking about before putting together these elaborate theories. Do you even know what a fuse is, does or doesn't do?
06-01-2016, 02:40 PM
#28
I just had to fix my friends po505 error code. When it first popped up we immediately disconnected the front and rear engine mounts. Care started to idle rough after that. Took it home and started to over haul everything. Bought a used ecu but new iacv from nissan. Upon inspection the orginal ecu did not look damaged. After putting everything back together car still had po505 code. Tried to do re learn procedure ecu would not take it, not even with nissan consult. Threw in the used ecu, wha la worked, but i will say this the engine mounts have to be plug in to do the relearn procedure , so in some way it is connected. CHEERS
06-01-2016, 02:50 PM
#29
what?
since you hate searching for answers i'll help you with this one. a fuse doesn't restrict or reduce amps in a circuit, it limits the maximum amps by physically breaking the circuit if the current exceeds fuse rating/capacity.
so a 7.5A fuse won't reduce a 10A or 15A current to 7.5A, the fuse would blow as soon as the current exceeded 7.5A. if your fuse didn't blow then your circuit never had a need for over 7.5A.
your speculation about the battery being damaged from changing this fuse is way off here
06-01-2016, 03:35 PM
#30
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> It resists the amount of amperes to the circuit
what?
since you hate searching for answers i'll help you with this one. a fuse doesn't restrict or reduce amps in a circuit, it limits the maximum amps by physically breaking the circuit if the current exceeds fuse rating/capacity.
so a 7.5A fuse won't reduce a 10A or 15A current to 7.5A, the fuse would blow as soon as the current exceeded 7.5A. if your fuse didn't blow then your circuit never had a need for over 7.5A.
your speculation about the battery being damaged from changing this fuse is way off here
what?
since you hate searching for answers i'll help you with this one. a fuse doesn't restrict or reduce amps in a circuit, it limits the maximum amps by physically breaking the circuit if the current exceeds fuse rating/capacity.
so a 7.5A fuse won't reduce a 10A or 15A current to 7.5A, the fuse would blow as soon as the current exceeded 7.5A. if your fuse didn't blow then your circuit never had a need for over 7.5A.
your speculation about the battery being damaged from changing this fuse is way off here
06-01-2016, 04:04 PM
#31
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I just had to fix my friends po505 error code. When it first popped up we immediately disconnected the front and rear engine mounts. Care started to idle rough after that. Took it home and started to over haul everything. Bought a used ecu but new iacv from nissan. Upon inspection the orginal ecu did not look damaged. After putting everything back together car still had po505 code. Tried to do re learn procedure ecu would not take it, not even with nissan consult. Threw in the used ecu, wha la worked, but i will say this the engine mounts have to be plug in to do the relearn procedure , so in some way it is connected. CHEERS
06-01-2016, 06:55 PM
#32
TSB NTB02-051a (P0138)
I got a used ecu because i wasnt paying $700 for a new one. I have access to ecus not a problem.I had a feeling the ecu was done. Because car wouldnt hold idle, i have access to the official nissan consult tool. I couldnt get a proper reading from the consult with the engine mounts unplugged. Once i plugged those in then the consult allowed me to move foward with tge idle re learn procedure.
Last edited by lux97Max; 06-01-2016 at 07:02 PM.
06-01-2016, 07:34 PM
#33
It doesn't just prevent 15 amps from coming through in the event of a short but it prevents anymore than 7.5amps from coming into the circuit. So your left with 7.5 amps that is unaccounted for. Go talk to an automotive electrical engineer about it. Don't tell anyone else to do that!
For the record, a component draws what it needs from the battery regardless of the fuse. If there's a malfunction, and the draw increases, the fuse pops and kills the circuit to protect it. That's it, period. A fuse has no other regulating effect at all. Until it pops it's just another bit of wire.
If you don't know something then come up with an intelligent question. Don't go accusing respected members of breaking your car when they're trying to help you.
Last edited by Derrick2k2SE; 06-01-2016 at 07:37 PM.
06-01-2016, 07:49 PM
#34
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I got a used ecu because i wasnt paying $700 for a new one. I have access to ecus not a problem.I had a feeling the ecu was done. Because car wouldnt hold idle, i have access to the official nissan consult tool. I couldnt get a proper reading from the consult with the engine mounts unplugged. Once i plugged those in then the consult allowed me to move foward with tge idle re learn procedure.
So without a consult one way would be to test the IACV impedance with a volt meter. If you can pick up on the circuit you can disconnect the crankshaft sensor and/or coil packs and test the entire circuit with a volt meter for shorts. Getting the ECM schematics one would be able to test the circuits within the ECM as well. I wouldn't just replace the ECM on a feeling. It's important to pinpoint each issue to me.
With the idle re-learn I wouldn't know...:
06-01-2016, 10:06 PM
#36
Anyone remember Aviation005, aka planecrash?
"I do not let anyone tell me anything. When someone tries to teach you, theres a chance they can be wrong."
This guy drinketh from planecrash's cup of stupidity!
Last edited by DennisMik; 06-01-2016 at 10:46 PM.
06-02-2016, 04:37 AM
#37
It doesn't just prevent 15 amps from coming through in the event of a short but it prevents anymore than 7.5amps from coming into the circuit. So your left with 7.5 amps that is unaccounted for. Go talk to an automotive electrical engineer about it. Don't tell anyone else to do that!
06-02-2016, 06:33 AM
#39
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I won't take advise again from certain members.
Replacing a 15 amp fuse with a 7.5 amp is improper fusing and can damage the car.
Bypass the throttle can damage the car. These things take a few months/weeks to damage your car.
Stupid... well the only thing that's stupid here is members advising other maxima owners to improperly fuse the car.
If you replace a fuse in your car always observe the rated fuse and ALWAYS replace with the identical rated fusing.
Replacing a 15 amp fuse with a 7.5 amp is improper fusing and can damage the car.
Bypass the throttle can damage the car. These things take a few months/weeks to damage your car.
Stupid... well the only thing that's stupid here is members advising other maxima owners to improperly fuse the car.
If you replace a fuse in your car always observe the rated fuse and ALWAYS replace with the identical rated fusing.
Last edited by maximatech12; 06-02-2016 at 06:45 AM.
06-02-2016, 07:08 AM
#40
I won't take advise again from certain members.
Replacing a 15 amp fuse with a 7.5 amp is improper fusing and can damage the car.
Absolutely not! Swapping to a smaller fuse means the fuse will pop sooner if there's a malfunction. The fuse has ZERO effect on the circuit till it pops. You've been told this and could easily confirm this with two minutes on Google. I believe you've just crossed the line from ignorance to lying.
Bypass the throttle can damage the car. These things take a few months/weeks to damage your car.
Absolutely not. The coolant passes through a small void in the manifold and doesn't touch any moving parts, electronics etc...
Stupid... well the only thing that's stupid here is members advising other maxima owners to improperly fuse the car.
What's stupid is you not wanting to learn what a fuse is. The answers are right at your fingertips but you'd rather tell lies than learn something.
I've messaged a few members about their nationality because honestly Americans wouldn't get away with this type of ignorance.
The root word of "ignorance" is "ignore". You've been told the facts and you could easily confirm what you've been told. You've chosen to IGNORE the resources at your fingertips in order to stick to your crazy theories.
Replacing a 15 amp fuse with a 7.5 amp is improper fusing and can damage the car.
Absolutely not! Swapping to a smaller fuse means the fuse will pop sooner if there's a malfunction. The fuse has ZERO effect on the circuit till it pops. You've been told this and could easily confirm this with two minutes on Google. I believe you've just crossed the line from ignorance to lying.
Bypass the throttle can damage the car. These things take a few months/weeks to damage your car.
Absolutely not. The coolant passes through a small void in the manifold and doesn't touch any moving parts, electronics etc...
Stupid... well the only thing that's stupid here is members advising other maxima owners to improperly fuse the car.
What's stupid is you not wanting to learn what a fuse is. The answers are right at your fingertips but you'd rather tell lies than learn something.
I've messaged a few members about their nationality because honestly Americans wouldn't get away with this type of ignorance.
The root word of "ignorance" is "ignore". You've been told the facts and you could easily confirm what you've been told. You've chosen to IGNORE the resources at your fingertips in order to stick to your crazy theories.
Last edited by Derrick2k2SE; 06-02-2016 at 07:15 AM.