Knock Sensor
10-04-2014, 03:48 AM
#1
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Knock Sensor
I have a 2000 Infiniti I30t. Bought it from a guy who was pretty **** retentive in taking care of it—he put a bunch of new parts on it, shocks, struts, ball joints, etc. He always used Midgrade fuel so I kept up that by using Midgrade myself. About three weeks ago I had AZ do a code check and they came up with three codes: P0430, P0420 and P1440.
I've been doing a lot of searching about these things on the forum and so with the P1440 code I thought I'd check the gas cap first. I checked it, no rust or anything, gasket was good, and there was hissing when I first unscrewed it. I screwed it back on (3-4 clicks), then cleared the codes. I put some more gas in it and drove around for a couple days. The CES stayed off until yesterday. Went back to AZ and had them scan it again. This time I only got two codes: P0430 and P0325.
I started searching the forums again for the KS. Found one big how-to thread, but unfortunately there were no pictures to aid me in finding/fixing the bloody thing. I was wondering if there were anymore how-tos or directions (with pics) so I could figure out how to do this thing myself?
I would like to replace it, since my car is 14 years old it's probably bad. I've started to notice a significant drop in my gas mileage and most threads I've read have blamed a bad/faulty KS for this.
I've been doing a lot of searching about these things on the forum and so with the P1440 code I thought I'd check the gas cap first. I checked it, no rust or anything, gasket was good, and there was hissing when I first unscrewed it. I screwed it back on (3-4 clicks), then cleared the codes. I put some more gas in it and drove around for a couple days. The CES stayed off until yesterday. Went back to AZ and had them scan it again. This time I only got two codes: P0430 and P0325.
I started searching the forums again for the KS. Found one big how-to thread, but unfortunately there were no pictures to aid me in finding/fixing the bloody thing. I was wondering if there were anymore how-tos or directions (with pics) so I could figure out how to do this thing myself?
I would like to replace it, since my car is 14 years old it's probably bad. I've started to notice a significant drop in my gas mileage and most threads I've read have blamed a bad/faulty KS for this.
10-04-2014, 07:58 AM
#2
PO430 Catalyst Bank 2 - Precats.. Gut them both and problem solved, the code will remain but there is a way for code to go away, dont remember what is called but search here and you will find
http://www.justanswer.com/nissan-inf...initi-i30.html
http://x.infinitihelp.com/forum/show...sor-6181.html?
http://forums.nicoclub.com/2000-i30-...r-t226122.html
http://www.justanswer.com/nissan-inf...initi-i30.html
http://x.infinitihelp.com/forum/show...sor-6181.html?
http://forums.nicoclub.com/2000-i30-...r-t226122.html
10-04-2014, 09:26 AM
#3
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Lontar, thanks for the links. I think I can remove and install this thing without removing the intake manifolds. I found another link via the one you gave me that describes a good way of doing this.
10-04-2014, 10:40 AM
#4
The last thing you want to do is replace the knock sensor.
Almost any time you have a code, the knock sensor code will be there. The P0325 knock sensor code is referred to as a ghost code because it is not always real.
Fix all the other problems first, clear the codes and see if the knock sensor code comes back.
Almost any time you have a code, the knock sensor code will be there. The P0325 knock sensor code is referred to as a ghost code because it is not always real.
Fix all the other problems first, clear the codes and see if the knock sensor code comes back.
10-04-2014, 10:48 AM
#5
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Hi Dennis. So I should work on the P0430 issue instead? I was reading up on that one and a lot of threads mention replacing the O2 sensors and seeing if that fixes the problem. Since the 0430 says Cat on Bank 2 is that the rear cat or the front cat?
Also, since there are quite a few O2 sensors on this car I'm not sure which sensor (or sensors) I should address. Would you have any suggestions on that?
Also, since there are quite a few O2 sensors on this car I'm not sure which sensor (or sensors) I should address. Would you have any suggestions on that?
10-04-2014, 12:35 PM
#7
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10-04-2014, 12:51 PM
#8
That code indicates that the cat is not operating as well as it should which could be caused by a bad O2 sensor or more likely that cat is at its end of life.
The options then become
1. replacing the cat. PPros: seamlessly solves the problem. No codes no simulators. Cons: Expensive.
2. gut the cat of the material inside it. Pros: Cheap if you can do it yourself, better flow. Cons: Can be expensive if you need someone to do it for you and could be hard to find someone to do it because it's likely illegal. To avoid a check engine light you will need either an O2 sensor simulator or spacers at the O2 (antifoulers) that will remove the sensor from the direct flow of exhaust.
The options then become
1. replacing the cat. PPros: seamlessly solves the problem. No codes no simulators. Cons: Expensive.
2. gut the cat of the material inside it. Pros: Cheap if you can do it yourself, better flow. Cons: Can be expensive if you need someone to do it for you and could be hard to find someone to do it because it's likely illegal. To avoid a check engine light you will need either an O2 sensor simulator or spacers at the O2 (antifoulers) that will remove the sensor from the direct flow of exhaust.
10-04-2014, 10:21 PM
#9
That code indicates that the cat is not operating as well as it should which could be caused by a bad O2 sensor or more likely that cat is at its end of life.
The options then become
1. replacing the cat.
The options then become
1. replacing the cat.
Pros: seamlessly solves the problem. No codes no simulators.
Cons: Expensive.
2. gut the cat of the material inside it. Pros: Cheap if you can do it yourself, better flow.
Cons: Can be expensive if you need someone to do it for you and could be hard to find someone to do it because it's likely illegal.
To avoid a check engine light you will need either an O2 sensor simulator or spacers at the O2 (antifoulers) that will remove the sensor from the direct flow of exhaust.But this gets a little tricky based on whether your car is California emissions or not. If you have a non-California car, it is easier.
On a California emissions car, a y-pipe only eliminates the bank 1 precat. You would still have to gut the bank 2 precat, but that is an easy one to do.
10-05-2014, 07:09 AM
#10
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There is a 3rd option. Replace the Nissan y-pipe with one that doesn't have precats. Warpspeed is a commonly used brand.
But this gets a little tricky based on whether your car is California emissions or not. If you have a non-California car, it is easier.
On a California emissions car, a y-pipe only eliminates the bank 1 precat. You would still have to gut the bank 2 precat, but that is an easy one to do.
But this gets a little tricky based on whether your car is California emissions or not. If you have a non-California car, it is easier.
On a California emissions car, a y-pipe only eliminates the bank 1 precat. You would still have to gut the bank 2 precat, but that is an easy one to do.
Is the bank 1 precat the one in front? I got a P0430 code, which is for the CAT on bank 2.
Last edited by desktop; 10-05-2014 at 09:57 AM.
10-05-2014, 10:25 AM
#11
Just because you live in Michigan, that does not guarantee that you do not have a California emissions car. Check the label under the hood.
Bank 1 is the side of the engine towards the firewall. Bank 2 is towards the radiator.
I looked for a link to the Warpspeed y-pipe but none came up. This is not a good thing.
Bank 1 is the side of the engine towards the firewall. Bank 2 is towards the radiator.
I looked for a link to the Warpspeed y-pipe but none came up. This is not a good thing.
10-05-2014, 11:06 AM
#12
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Just because you live in Michigan, that does not guarantee that you do not have a California emissions car. Check the label under the hood.
Bank 1 is the side of the engine towards the firewall. Bank 2 is towards the radiator.
I looked for a link to the Warpspeed y-pipe but none came up. This is not a good thing.
Bank 1 is the side of the engine towards the firewall. Bank 2 is towards the radiator.
I looked for a link to the Warpspeed y-pipe but none came up. This is not a good thing.
10-05-2014, 12:15 PM
#13
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Hi Dennis. So I should work on the P0430 issue instead? I was reading up on that one and a lot of threads mention replacing the O2 sensors and seeing if that fixes the problem. Since the 0430 says Cat on Bank 2 is that the rear cat or the front cat?
Also, since there are quite a few O2 sensors on this car I'm not sure which sensor (or sensors) I should address. Would you have any suggestions on that?
Also, since there are quite a few O2 sensors on this car I'm not sure which sensor (or sensors) I should address. Would you have any suggestions on that?
If I were in your position, I would do the following:
- I would switch from Midgrade gas to Premium gas immediately. If your precats are in poor shape, then the use of Midgrade gas was almost certainly a factor. There are threads on this forum that document this fact.
- To clean your engine, incl. the precats, use an additive such as "Guaranteed to Pass" (http://www.amazon.com/CRC-05063-Guar...anteed+to+pass) . You can also try Seafoam or other.
- Subsequently, clear your SES light and your codes, by disconnecting the battery overnight.
- Then keep driving while watching for light/codes. I suggest buying and ODBC reader. I bought Actron for ~$39 (http://www.amazon.com/Actron-CP9125-...rds=odb+reader) and I am very happy with it; there are now even less expensive readers (http://www.amazon.com/Autel-MaxiScan...rds=odb+reader) with good reviews available.
- If your CES light does not come on soon, you are done. If it does come on soon (within 2 months or so), you have either bad precat(s), or bad O2 sensor, or both. Dennis and others already suggested solutions. I would just add that if you don't live in California, you can get after-market CATs for a very decent price (1/3 to 1/2 of the OEM price).
Good luck and let us know how it goes.
Last edited by maxiiiboy; 10-05-2014 at 12:50 PM.
10-05-2014, 12:27 PM
#14
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Desktop, yes you should should work on your p0430. However, I would not rush into replacing parts (precats and/or sensors) as some people here suggest. On my 2000 SE, I have had this code twice during the last 4 years (several times in 2011 and once again this year). In both cases, I resolved the issue resolved without replacing any parts. My car, with 125k miles and close to 15 years old, runs just fine.
I've consistently gotten 22ish city/28 hwy forever with my auto 01 (also 87 octane mostly). Premium gets put in every now and again and it does run a tiny bit smoother. I can also attest to some pinging being noticed every year as the heat of summer kicks in. I do a lot of long trips with plenty of time to obsess about recording mpg's and such. Premium hasn't shown itself to gain me much in fuel efficiency to warrant the price with long distance driving, but again it does feel better. Additionally, I have to add that I do stay on top of the simple things; tire pressure checked often, syn oil changed on schedule, air filter replaced, and I keep her properly aligned. That probably makes more of a difference than anything else.
I know this is controversial to some of you here but if your car is not pinging on regular you don't need premium. It's just in your head. Like your stupid little cone filter that gives you 20hp. If there was a sticker saying using 91 for maximum performance on a prius gas door the prius guys would be going on about only using 91 in their priuses. Going camping in death valley hauling a trailer full of junk up a hill, 91 would be a good idea to use though.
Just one more thing I want to say is that it's federal law for cars here to run on 87 just fine and our 5gen maximas aren't exactly AMGs that it's constally de-tuning the engine with 87. It's not. 91 is not adding performance.
Just one more thing I want to say is that it's federal law for cars here to run on 87 just fine and our 5gen maximas aren't exactly AMGs that it's constally de-tuning the engine with 87. It's not. 91 is not adding performance.
Last edited by desktop; 10-05-2014 at 12:58 PM.
10-05-2014, 10:01 PM
#15
All cars, not just Nissan, with a V type engine have 3 cats. The California cars have larger cats under the hood area than the federal spec cars do.
10-05-2014, 10:12 PM
#16
The last thing you want to do is replace the knock sensor.
Almost any time you have a code, the knock sensor code will be there. The P0325 knock sensor code is referred to as a ghost code because it is not always real.
Fix all the other problems first, clear the codes and see if the knock sensor code comes back.
Almost any time you have a code, the knock sensor code will be there. The P0325 knock sensor code is referred to as a ghost code because it is not always real.
Fix all the other problems first, clear the codes and see if the knock sensor code comes back.
And FYI, in case you didn't see my reply in the other thread...
Since you have a 2000, you have a lower intake manifold with swirl valves, which blocks access to the knock sensor (KS). Therefore, you're screwed and you're gonna have to take the long road and remove the upper intake manifold, then the fuel rail, and then the lower intake manifold to get to the KS. Let's hope that once you address your other code, the KS code won't return.
10-05-2014, 11:17 PM
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10-05-2014, 11:23 PM
#18
Sorry, but I disagree: the Cali spec cars have four O2 sensors (2 front + 2 back) whereas the Fed spec cars have three (2 front +1 back). Check out the FSM, or this thread https://maxima.org/forums/5th-genera...on-issues.html.
10-06-2014, 04:57 AM
#20
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Totally agree with Dennis and other guys stating to look into and solve the 0430 code first.
And FYI, in case you didn't see my reply in the other thread...
Since you have a 2000, you have a lower intake manifold with swirl valves, which blocks access to the knock sensor (KS). Therefore, you're screwed and you're gonna have to take the long road and remove the upper intake manifold, then the fuel rail, and then the lower intake manifold to get to the KS. Let's hope that once you address your other code, the KS code won't return.
And FYI, in case you didn't see my reply in the other thread...
Since you have a 2000, you have a lower intake manifold with swirl valves, which blocks access to the knock sensor (KS). Therefore, you're screwed and you're gonna have to take the long road and remove the upper intake manifold, then the fuel rail, and then the lower intake manifold to get to the KS. Let's hope that once you address your other code, the KS code won't return.
I've looked up a few schematics which show the 02 sensors, but I'm not sure which one would be right. For example, which illustration on this page would be for my car? If checking the 02 sensors would be your first step is there a way to check if these things work?
The code p0430 refers to the left bank 2 cat, so which one would that be? I have the FSM, but I can't find anything in there about 02 sensor or CAT locations. Also, I should mention that I do have a small hole in my muffler. Would that be causing the 0430 code?
Last edited by desktop; 10-06-2014 at 05:00 AM.
10-06-2014, 09:59 AM
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Wizard, thank you for telling me this. So what would you recommend as the first step I should take toward addressing the 0430 issue? I have been searching and reading about this on the forums and people mention 02 sensors, gutting cats, y-pipes, etc. I don't have the kind of money to be buying y-pipes or replacing cats so I hope it doesn't come to that.
I've looked up a few schematics which show the 02 sensors, but I'm not sure which one would be right. For example, which illustration on this page would be for my car? If checking the 02 sensors would be your first step is there a way to check if these things work?
The code p0430 refers to the left bank 2 cat, so which one would that be? I have the FSM, but I can't find anything in there about 02 sensor or CAT locations. Also, I should mention that I do have a small hole in my muffler. Would that be causing the 0430 code?
I've looked up a few schematics which show the 02 sensors, but I'm not sure which one would be right. For example, which illustration on this page would be for my car? If checking the 02 sensors would be your first step is there a way to check if these things work?
The code p0430 refers to the left bank 2 cat, so which one would that be? I have the FSM, but I can't find anything in there about 02 sensor or CAT locations. Also, I should mention that I do have a small hole in my muffler. Would that be causing the 0430 code?
10-06-2014, 10:17 AM
#22
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Desktop, yes you should work on your p0430. However, I would not rush into replacing parts (precats and/or sensors) as some people here suggest. If I were in your position, I would do the following:
Good luck and let us know how it goes.
- I would switch from Midgrade gas to Premium gas immediately. If your precats are in poor shape, then the use of Midgrade gas was almost certainly a factor. There are threads on this forum that document this fact.
- To clean your engine, incl. the precats, use an additive such as "Guaranteed to Pass" (http://www.amazon.com/CRC-05063-Guar...anteed+to+pass) . You can also try Seafoam or other.
- Subsequently, clear your SES light and your codes, by disconnecting the battery overnight.
- Then keep driving while watching for light/codes. I suggest buying and ODBC reader. I bought Actron for ~$39 (http://www.amazon.com/Actron-CP9125-...rds=odb+reader) and I am very happy with it; there are now even less expensive readers (http://www.amazon.com/Autel-MaxiScan...rds=odb+reader) with good reviews available.
- If your CES light does not come on soon, you are done. If it does come on soon (within 2 months or so), you have either bad precat(s), or bad O2 sensor, or both. Dennis and others already suggested solutions. I would just add that if you don't live in California, you can get after-market CATs for a very decent price (1/3 to 1/2 of the OEM price).
Good luck and let us know how it goes.
Last edited by desktop; 10-06-2014 at 10:30 AM.
10-06-2014, 11:49 AM
#24
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Thanks
10-07-2014, 07:23 AM
#25
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If I were in your position, I would do the following:
- I would switch from Midgrade gas to Premium gas immediately. If your precats are in poor shape, then the use of Midgrade gas was almost certainly a factor. There are threads on this forum that document this fact.
- To clean your engine, incl. the precats, use an additive such as "Guaranteed to Pass" (http://www.amazon.com/CRC-05063-Guar...anteed+to+pass) . You can also try Seafoam or other.
- Subsequently, clear your SES light and your codes, by disconnecting the battery overnight.
- Then keep driving while watching for light/codes. I suggest buying and ODBC reader. I bought Actron for ~$39 (http://www.amazon.com/Actron-CP9125-...rds=odb+reader) and I am very happy with it; there are now even less expensive readers (http://www.amazon.com/Autel-MaxiScan...rds=odb+reader) with good reviews available.
- If your CES light does not come on soon, you are done. If it does come on soon (within 2 months or so), you have either bad precat(s), or bad O2 sensor, or both. Dennis and others already suggested solutions. I would just add that if you don't live in California, you can get after-market CATs for a very decent price (1/3 to 1/2 of the OEM price).
I went to the gas station and filled up with Premium (our Mobil station has Premium rated at 93). I then poured the additive into the tank and noticed an immediate change in the car when I went to leave. For the past couple months there has been a hesitation when starting the car—it almost seems like it's not getting any gas and the starter even kicks back sometimes. Leaving the gas station the car fired right up and I noticed a significant "pep" to the 'ol girl when I took off down the road.
Since then it has been starting up every time, without any hesitation at all. I unhooked the battery last night to clear the codes and hooked it back up this morning. AutoZone has a few code readers, but they're too expensive. I'll go to Amazon and check out what they have. I have a buddy who has Amazon Prime so he lets me order stuff using his account so I can get it quick.
I'm driving around today to see how she runs and keeping an eye on the dash for the CES light. It's amazing how the gas and additive has made such a drastic improvement in the car already. Kind of shocked me.
10-17-2014, 01:57 PM
#26
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Well the CES came back again. This time just the P0430. I'm still having the hard starting issues. The cycling of the key trick doesn't work every time, but if I pump the pedal a couple times it will start right away.
10-18-2014, 01:01 PM
#28
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Totally disagree about not replacing the KS. On a 14-year-old car it will probably be toast by now - the plastic body of the thing gets brittle and disintegrates. It costs hardly anything to replace so why not? A bad KS ruins performance.
10-18-2014, 02:33 PM
#29
you proly talkin about a 4gen cause in my 3.0 there no way to get it out thru the opening, i must remove the lower intake manifold and to someone paying to have it done its $$$$$$
10-18-2014, 02:48 PM
#30
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Anyone got a pic of where this thing would be on my 2000 I30? I've been searching around but haven't located anything that helps.
10-18-2014, 05:01 PM
#31
No. Most definitely not.
This will show you the general vicinity of the KS. This pic only applies to 95-98 Maximas.
http://www.motorvate.ca/node/40
Previously, I mispoke when I said you have a swirl valve in the way. That's just a 99 thing. On your engine, it's even worse. There is a coolant log in the way and the KS is even further back on your 2000 compared to 99's. It's so far back under the manifold, you can't even see it!
I took some pictures of my 2000 Maxima to show where the KS is. I'll post them asap.
http://www.motorvate.ca/node/40
Previously, I mispoke when I said you have a swirl valve in the way. That's just a 99 thing. On your engine, it's even worse. There is a coolant log in the way and the KS is even further back on your 2000 compared to 99's. It's so far back under the manifold, you can't even see it!
I took some pictures of my 2000 Maxima to show where the KS is. I'll post them asap.
10-18-2014, 05:33 PM
#32
Here are the pics as promised. I start out zoomed out and slowly start zooming in.
In this final pic, I show the KS harness connector. Find this connector, then follow the yellow brick road to the KS. You'll see that you can't even see it! It's burried under the manifold.
In this final pic, I show the KS harness connector. Find this connector, then follow the yellow brick road to the KS. You'll see that you can't even see it! It's burried under the manifold.
10-18-2014, 06:08 PM
#33
It just dawned on me that I have a partially dissambled 2000 engine in my garage. 
Here are 3 more pictures which clearly show that the KS is impossible to get to without removing the UIM, fuel rail components, and LIM.
Here are 3 more pictures which clearly show that the KS is impossible to get to without removing the UIM, fuel rail components, and LIM.
10-18-2014, 06:14 PM
#34
Don't assume your KS is bad. Always use logic and troubleshoot accordingly. As previously mentioned, the KS code is often a piggyback code to other codes.
If nothing else, at least you know where the KS is located on your 2000 I30t.
If nothing else, at least you know where the KS is located on your 2000 I30t.
10-18-2014, 06:30 PM
#35
10-19-2014, 06:28 AM
#36
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Sounds like a big job and not cheap, so I'll hold off on that for now. The car runs great otherwise—no stalling or rough idling. But the hard starting isn't caused by the KS, so I'm back to figuring out the fuel system problem. I got a local junk yard getting a I30 just like mine soon and he says it starts right up and runs great. So I'm thinking whatever parts I need for the fuel problem I'll just take them off that car. Be a lot cheaper.
Last edited by desktop; 10-19-2014 at 06:40 AM.
10-19-2014, 08:05 AM
#37
Wow, thanks for those pics, Wiz! So IF I need to replace my KS I'll have to take all that crap off first. Lovely..... Slamrod told me the same thing and he said if I do change the KS I might as well do a full tune up since I'll be taking off the intake. He suggested putting in new TB +IACV gaskets, IM gasket, and valve cover gaskets as well as the EGR. Toss in new spark plugs while I'm at it.
Sounds like a big job and not cheap, so I'll hold off on that for now. The car runs great otherwise—no stalling or rough idling. But the hard starting isn't caused by the KS, so I'm back to figuring out the fuel system problem. I got a local junk yard getting a I30 just like mine soon and he says it starts right up and runs great. So I'm thinking whatever parts I need for the fuel problem I'll just take them off that car. Be a lot cheaper.
Sounds like a big job and not cheap, so I'll hold off on that for now. The car runs great otherwise—no stalling or rough idling. But the hard starting isn't caused by the KS, so I'm back to figuring out the fuel system problem. I got a local junk yard getting a I30 just like mine soon and he says it starts right up and runs great. So I'm thinking whatever parts I need for the fuel problem I'll just take them off that car. Be a lot cheaper.
If you noticed a slight change with gas treatment additive (to be fair it was likely placebo), then changing the fuel filter should work even better. A clogged up fuel filter seems like a very rational explanation to why your car has difficulties starting.
Its an easy job even for a person with zero knowledge of cars or mechanical devices (i was able to do it when i was first starting out and clueless which says alot), and its very cheap. And its certainly where you should start before you touch anything else, especially considering its an item that is required to be replaced multiple times throughtout the lifetime of your car. Always start with the small, cheap parts, ESPECIALLY if they are "maintainence" parts AKA parts literally designed and intended to be replaced.
If that doesnt help, then you can move up the line to the other suspect parts.
Also Wiz has a very good point about the KS code being caused by another code - your car will just "ice the cake" so to speak with that code when another code/problem is present.
PS- you may end up being lucky and not have to deal with the KS at all. However if you plan on keeping the car for the long haul it certainly cant hurt to do that full tune-up anyways if you have the time/money for it.
Edit: just wanted to add that you should, in my opinion, buy a brand new fuel filter and replace that before you start spending lots of money for parts from the junkyard car.
10-19-2014, 08:49 AM
#38
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Until you get around to replacing the KS - (and sorry, I forgot this was an i30 car) - you could always just defeat it by connecting an appropriate value resistor across the harness instead, and make sure to use premium fuel to avoid knocking. The ks has no effect on starting as noted above by others. If it is faulty then the engine timing will be permanently retarded, causing retarded acceleration and high fuel use.
10-19-2014, 09:20 AM
#40
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Id def start with replacing the fuel filter. Unless youve done it or paid for it to be done in the past, it probably has never been changed.
Edit: just wanted to add that you should, in my opinion, buy a brand new fuel filter and replace that before you start spending lots of money for parts from the junkyard car.
Edit: just wanted to add that you should, in my opinion, buy a brand new fuel filter and replace that before you start spending lots of money for parts from the junkyard car.
Where can I find the exact fuel filter I need for my car? Seems funny Autozone would have one that I don't even see on my car in the FSM.
Until you get around to replacing the KS - (and sorry, I forgot this was an i30 car) - you could always just defeat it by connecting an appropriate value resistor across the harness instead, and make sure to use premium fuel to avoid knocking. The ks has no effect on starting as noted above by others. If it is faulty then the engine timing will be permanently retarded, causing retarded acceleration and high fuel use.