Take a look at the attached dynos.

http://web.tampabay.rr.com/maxgator/oldVSrecent.BMP

Run 1 is my original all stock (with a big blip at rev limiter), the other is all stock today.

Original stock = 197 (really only about 193)
Current stock = 163.7

In fact, there's about a 40 hp loss at red-line and peak hp has moved from redline all the way back to 5k.

I won't go into all the problems I'm having with getting Nissan to diagnose the problem. Suffice it to say, I think getting them to admit there is a problem will win the war.

What I'm trying to figure out is - what's causing the problem. The dyno graph almost looks like it is a 4th gen.

It sure seems like the problem is in the variable intake (VIAS system), since the curves follow all the way up to intake switchover, but once the switchover happens, there is no power increase.

After much prodding (2days worth) They've done the VIAS diagnostic and everything checks out. I figured it would since you can visually watch the actuator flip when the car hits 5k rpms.

Anyone else have this problem?
Any suggestions on what it might be?


Thanks.

John.

 

Good luck in finding and fixing this problem.

 

I'm having the same sort of issue with Nissan. There has been a noticible power loss on my 2k and they refuse to believe there is a problem.

I'm not sure where the power loss is.. I'm still seeking it out.

I have not gotten the car on the dyno yet due to cost. Is there a site somewhere that has dyno results archived for different years? (Or the 2k specifically) I would love to have some comparisons.

- Bryan

P.S. Don't get me started on the treatment I received when reporting that my brakes were warping every 11k!

 

Damn, that is a big drop. I hope everything works out for ya. Keep us updated.

 

Warranty?

 

Oh, it's warranty all right - If I can get them to admit there is a problem.

Short of it is they will have to admit it.

I'll have comparable cars for them to drive AND dyno results.

If that doesn't work . . .

 

Can you explain your car a bit more. Did you run twice rigth after each other, or at different times. Is your car 2001 5spd?

 

Dynos were done many months apart - but on the same dyno by same operator. Second stock dyno was done after I noticed the loss of hp. It is a 2000 5spd.

 

Bryan -

My power loss is almost 100% above 5000 rpms. That's what makes it so hard for them to accept. You get a tech who doesn't normally drive a 5spd max and he drives it under 5k and says - oh it's fine.

I've got a dyno and they don't believe me. The way I'm going to have to prove it is comparing it to another 2k 5spd. Maybe there is someone near you that you can test against.

What I notice is that before the problem, car would pull harder and harder through redline. It would feel like the car should go past redline. Now after I hit about 5500 rpms, it feels like there is no point in using those additional 1000 rpms and that it would be better to shift.

If I didn't have the dyno as proof, I might have been accepted the b.s. from the dealer. Find a dyno shop and put it up on the dyno. If your dyno looks like my second one, then you've got a problem.

 

That is my plan (getting the car on a dyno). I remember specifically when it happened. It was a 90+ degree day last summer. The car was at the correct operating temp. I let the clutch out too quickly and got some heavy wheel hop.. and then noticed the drop in power. I've had the car in for it's 30k service (yes.. I actually paid them the money to do it) and they said everything looked good.

I hope to do the dyno run sometime in March unless someone knows a reasonable dyno shop in NY (Long Island area).

I currently need to completely replace the front and rear rotors as the stock ones have warped badly at 11k then 22k..

- Bryan

 

You know the rotors should be replaced under warranty, right?

There is a tsb on the list on this site.

Can't trace my power loss to that kind of a problem.

 

They cut them at 11k under warranty (wouldn't replace) but refused to consider doing it at 22k when the problem occured again. I have had a 3rd gen Max, a Fiero GT (ok.. no laughing), an older Camery, and other assorted cars with out warping issues. The dealer flat out told me that I was abusive to the brakes and that they would not be cutting or replacing them. Nissan corporate referred me back to the dealer with the parting comment from the cust svc rep "I will never give complimentary brake service".

I am not overly worried about the brakes, as I would like better stopping power.. increased life..etc.. that an aftermarket rotor/pad will give me.

Thanks for the pointer though.

- Bryan

 

Where is the actuator that you can see flip when the engine breaks 5K?

I've never had the pleasure of seeing under the hood while hitting 5K rpms.


Keep us posted if you find out what's wrong.

 

Try manually keeping the actuator on the manifold open and drive it around. You may have have a solenoid vacuum leak or maybe your cam advancing solenoids aren't functioning. But it would be easy just to rig the intake flapper and take it for a spin.

 

Where exactly are you talking about? On the passenger side of the engine bay on the manifold, I see what looks like an post that opens some sort of cam/lever during start up and then switches to closed after the car idles for a bit.

Anyone have a service manual for the 2k+ ?

- Bryan

 

It is on the driver's side of the manifold - and it looks like a little rectangular black box. If you look under the driver's side of that rectangular box, you'll see an "L" shaped piece of metal coming out of the box. It comes out toward the driver's side and then curves so its end faces the front of the car. When you hit 5k, it will rotate so the end is facing up toward the hood rather than toward the front.

I've watched it the whole time the car is above 5k on the dyno and it flips open and stays there. That piece "appears" to be operating normally. I don't think it is losing vacuum - it wasn't on the dyno and still I had the problem.

I have to wait until the svc manager get back to town next week to take in another 2k 5spd to test it against.

 

But - where is your power loss? Is it above 5k???

 

It's mainly noticible in 3,4,5th gear after 4k RPM. Also, sometimes the accel and the RPM don't also feel like they line up.

 

My car is low on power too. Check my post in the General Forums. I only dynoed at 171.1 and I have a Cattman Y and JWT.

 

did you dyno yours before the mods jp?

 

I messed around with my engine for a little bit this afternoon. I had my brother rev the engine in neutral under the box you were reffering to I saw something move up. I then took the vacuum hose attached to the box out to see if it made any difference and it didnt. I then unplugged the electrical connector attached to the box and took the car for a ride and it didnt throw any codes or have any power loss.
Is that "L" shaped peice that you are talking about black and does it come out the far side of the box. The peice im talking about has a rubber tip on the end and when i revved the engine it didnt move. It looks like it is made to rotate 90 degrees right. I am not very sure how our Variable Intake works, so please excuse my ignorance.

 

It sounds like you are dealing with the right "assembly" of pieces but looking at the wrong piece.

I believe the hose you removed is the vacuum hose. That hose attaches to the side of the box facing the front of the car.

The plastic piece you are talking about is on the driver's side of the box and is a round piece with a rubber tip sticking out of it. As far as I know - that piece does not move and it is not the one I'm talking about.

You need to look UNDER the box - on the driver's side. There you will see a metal piece as I described above. You should see that piece flip up when you hit 5k rpms. You won't be able to move it by hand.

Hopefully, for you - that piece doesn't move. Then you will have identified your problem.

By the way, the system is called the VIAS system. Check out this VIAS diagnostic that 2k2dmax sent me. it is what the dealer should do.

http://web.tampabay.rr.com/maxgator/...20NFEC0598.doc

 

Hey John, it's 2K2DEMAX.

 

Keep us all in the loop, we are anxious to hear how this turns out.

 

Awwww. . . Jerome I'm sorry!!

 

I just had my ignition coils replaced today and, let me tell you, what an amazing difference. I had essentially the same problem that is being described here. It seems that many early (pre 5/00 build dates) 2000 builds have been popping up with bad coils (I have a 2000 SE that was built during 10/99). There is a TSB out on it, but no one has posted it yet. If you do a search on "ignition coils", you'll see what I mean. Plus, if you're under 36k (or maybe even 60k, not sure) it's covered under warrenty. However, trying to convince your dealer of the problem with out the check engine light coming on (my situation) may be difficult. Interestingly enough, my local dealer was very quick to replace all six coils.

Just a thought.....

Jason

 

Ok I looked under the assembly and found that the valve opened up when my brother floored the car. I also tried to move the "valve" when the car was off and I could open it all the way, is this normal. I dont now about taking the Y-pipe off, but I will definetly take my Intake off.

 

I don't know if the actuator is supposed to move by hand or not. I thought when I tried, it wouldn't move - but at the time I didn't really understand how it moved. So, movement by hand may be normal.

As for the y-pipe, you may be able to get away without them finding it since they never put my car up on a lift - to my knowledge. HOWEVER, if they find the y-pipe, I can almost guarantee that they will blame the problem on the pipe and refuse to fix it.

I have had a VERY HARD TIME getting Nissan to even admit there is a problem. If they had the excuse of a y-pipe, I would be dead meat.

I'm taking my car in today for comparison with another 2k and hopefully, I'll make some progress shortly.

 

Well, it appears that after the comparison today I am going to get the "there is nothing wrong with your car" / "its a normal variation between vehicles" / "We aren't going to do anything about it" quasi-final determination.

This despite the fact that from a 4k rpm roll in 3rd gear Madmax2k's 5spd pulled almost 1 full car through 5750 rpms. I won't go into the various problems with the comparisons done. Suffice it to say that both the tech and the service manager aren't going to admit there is a problem. I'm betting they continue to ignore my dyno.

I'll get a chance to "appeal" directly to Nissan's Customer Service line which will likely yield the same result despite my threats to not purchase any more nissan/infiniti products.

Hopefully Nissan will surprise me - but I doubt it.

If I don't get the result I want, my car will be sold shortly (of course the pilot sports and other parts will be for sale). It is not worth the time or expense to fight them legally and the return on any fight is too small to justify the hassle.

I'll just take my business elsewhere.

 

John-

Yeah....the service manager basically implied they werent going to do anything about it. What a joke. I guess they dont want to do any real repair work and are content to just change oil and tires

 

Someone please forgive me for asking but I thought that the Variable intake was only on the 2K2 Maximas? And after reading this post why is Nissan always negelecting their customers? Can't you call the better business burea on them for not fixing what is an obvious problem. I wouldn't doubt that they would admit to there being a problem if you were going to pay for it.

 

Why not lie and say you had the engine removed and dynoed? Then you can tell the dealer to dyno a stock 2k max and it will show the 30hp gain over your car. Have you tried tying the valve open on the manifold? This might cause a torque loss below 5k but it should help power up top. If the dealer is reluctant to service the car try another and tell them that your car seems alot slower than other 5th gens. Since they are going to charge you 1 labor hour anyway insist they drive both cars at WOT. Hell do a roll on if possible. I'm sure none of these guys know what a dynojet is .

 

I don't need to lie - I had the car dyno'd when I got it and after I started having the problem. Taking the engine out makes no difference. My dynos are even better than a comparison between two cars because they are a comparison between the same car. If necessary I do have another 2k dyno that is the same as my original (madmax2k).

Part of the problem is that they don't believe the dynos. The rest of the problem is that they don't know what's wrong with it and don't want to admit there is a problem because they will be stuck with it.

We did a roll on in 3rd gear and from 4k to about 5750 rpms madmax2k's car pulled about 1 car length on mine. Apparently, that is not conclusive enough for them. Roll on in second was less conclusive. But in both cases neither of them would wind the car out to redline.

You are right about the dynos - but SOMEONE AT NISSAN should be able to look at the dyno and say there is clearly a problem.

 

Well, I got the "go fly a kite" from my local Nissan service - apparently after they discussed the issue with engineering.

Basically, if the car is not throwing a code - then there is nothing wrong. They will not accept my dyno showing a 40 hp loss as evidence of a problem because there are "too many variables." They will not accept my suggestion to dyno anywhere at their choice.

And, they (the service manager and tech) don't see a significant performance difference between my car and madmax2k's - although it is hard to committ the service manager to actually saying that. (On our test roll-on with madmax2k, he pulled about 1 car length in 3rd between 4k and 5750k even though my car got the jump).

So now it's off to the regional service rep. and the Nissan 1 customer service line.

 

Well, I finally talked to the Nissan 1 service line:

Short of our conversation was that I should take it to another dealer.

They claim to have no control over service in any way - despite the fact that she is constantly quoting to me Nissan policy that they don't accept independent testing (i.e. my dynos). Then she has the ***** to tell me that Nissan doesn't have anything to do with the warranty - that's the dealer's problem!!! Of course, when I started asking her about Nissan Engineering that the Service Manager was allegedly talking to she told me we'd been on the call for 13 minutes and she was terminating it and referring it to her supervisor.

She obviously has no clue that if I wanted to make a lemon law claim, I'm required to make it to the manufacturer, not the dealer.

LOL.

 

That sucks. Hope you find a solution to this. These kinds of post make me reluctant to take my car in for the auto tranny TSB.

 

damn, dude, that's so crappy of nissan. i hope everything works out though. i wonder maybe my car might be slower than other 5th gens. but i'm not sure, it's probably up there close to the other auto's, hopefully.

if you plan on selling anything let me know though, i'm in orlando.

 

actually, the more I think about it the closer I get to a supra. Wanted one before .. . want one now.

I'll pm you with my e-mail

 

But I must say this - things will not work out without a substantial amount of effort.

To be quite honest with you, I don't feel like putting in the effort and have decided to simply sell rather than fight with Nissan.

 

Damn man, this really sucks!

It just p!sses me off that Nissan will not bother to fix something that is obviously a problem and under warranty.

As much as I love my new Maxima, shia like this and the fact that Nissan does not stand behind their products at all is the reason why I would buy another Accord V6 tomorrow if they made a damned stick shift version of it.

If something like this happened in my Accord (say VTEC wasn't engaging) and I got that kind of service from a dealership, a quick call to North American Honda would clear everything up and the NA Honda would call back that dealership and ream the **** out of the service manager for d!cking around a customer. The service manager would then call me back and my car would be fixed in 2 days max.

My clutch throwout bearing is a little flakey and it's under warranty. I'm going to take it in in a couple of weeks when I have some time and hopefully I won't get any retarded crap like this!

Anyways Gator, whatever you decide to do, best of luck to you

Sorry bout all the problems