IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

Purely theoretical right now, but maybe it could be possible in a couple years when people start rebuilding their engines. **cough**Kev**cough** I'm ignoring the transmission differences for THEORETICAL sake, since where there is a will, there is a way.

Anways, I was reading an article in Turbo & High-Tech Performance June 2002 issue, about taking a Honda 1.8L LS(B18A) non-VTEC bottom end and putting it with a 1.6L(B16A) top end in a 1.6L chasis. Basically, you get the better breathing 1.6L VTEC benefits with the 1.8Ls' torque(more displacement and longer stroke).

My question is would a "Frankenstein" engine be THEORETICALLY possible with the VQ30 top-end and the VQ35 bottom end?

Basically, you would have the torque of the 3.5L due to the added displacement PLUS the high RPM breathing of the 3.0L due to the VIAS system.

Is the engine design so different between the 3.0L and 3.5L that this would be IMPOSSIBLE? I'm wondering more about what's different between the 3.0L and the 3.5L MECHANICALLY, not fuel and ECU issues, since there is always a way around that(Haltech, TEC-II, etc.).

All you VQ engine gurus please deflate my hypothesis.

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

This type of swapping doesn't make sense. The VQ3.5 is just plain better in all areaa. Bigger displacement, same or better heads, varible intake cam timing and varible length intake manifold. You would just want to use the whole thing if possible. You have to understand that the power of the 3.5vq is not just from the displacement, it's from the varible cam timing and intake manifold also.

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

Ok, then why do they drop off after 5600rpms or so?

I'm just wondering if you couldn't get the VQ35 to pull all the way to redline like a VQ30.

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

Dunno. But the VQ30's power dies after 5000 unless you have Ian's ME intake manifold. Which is the exact same idea as the new 3.5VQ engine.

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

You mean the VG30 dies after 5000rpms, right? The ME intake supposedly makes the VG30 act like the 2K-2K1 VQ30 VIAS system/manifold.

I'm still not clear as to what is "variable" on the VQ30 vs. VQ35, any clue?

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

No. The stock VQ30's power dies after 5000 rpm. At least on the 4-gens. And you are right, the ME intake on the 4-gen is a great mod to hold the hp/torque to the upper rpms.

VQ3.5 features varible cam timing on the intake cams. Varible cam timing. An advanced version of the VE30DE's varible cam timing. The 3.5VQ also has varible intake manifold similar to the ME intake(probably more advanced to accomodate the 3.5 liter displacement)

I didn't know the 2000-2001 3.0VQs had varible chamber intake manifolds? I thought they were just black plastic?

There was nothing "varible" on the 4-gen 3.0VQs. That was the problem.

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

I swore 4th gens. were NOT VQ's ONLY 5th gens.

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

Your confusing me here...

I have a VQ30 which pulls to redline and has a VIAS system which allows the manifold to switch from the long runners to short runners at ~5600rpms. This is what the 4th gens. NEVER had until the ME manifolds showed up.

The 1995-1999 = VG30DE
2000-2001 = VQ30DE
2K2 = VQ35DE

Right?

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

oh boy...hehe.

Nissan introduced the brand new VQ30 all aluminum V6 with the introduction of the new styled (beam bar'd hehe) Maxima in 1995'. 190hp and 205ftlbs torque. Nice engine but ran out of breath over 5000rpm.

2001SE

VQ engines are in maxima's since 95, the 00/01 engines is just a better version of the first one (95-99)

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

Ok,

1989-1994 GXE
1989-1991 SE
VG30E
SOHC
3.0L
2nd Gen: 152hp@ 5200, 167tq@ 3600
3rd Gen: 160hp@ 5200, 182tq@ 3200


1992-1994 SE
VE30DE
DOHC
3.0L
190hp@ 5600
190tq@ 4000
DOHC and variable valve timing comes to the Maxima.

1995-1999 All
VQ30DE
DOHC
3.0L
190hp@ 5600
205tq@ 4000
No variable valve timing or intake length path here... just lots of torque! Judged a top 10 engine, worldwide.

2000-2001
VQ30DE-K
DOHC
3.0L
222@ 6400
217@ 4000
New and improved VQ

2K2
VQ35
3.5-liter DOHC 24-valve V6 engine
255 hp @ 5,800 rpm
246 lb-ft of torque @ 4,400 rpm
Double-tipped platinum spark plugs
Continuously Variable Timing Control System (CVTCS)
Variable Intake Manifold


Can't believe I didn't know that!

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

Also varible intake volume intakes(but the VG had it too but the VE's design most closely resembles what Nissan is using for the VQ3.5)and direct coil on plug distributorless ignition

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

One more question, VQ Master, why don't the 4th gens. swap the 5th gen. NVIS and manifold instead of the ME?

soundmike

iTrader: (24)

When you guys say that the power dies off at 5k rpm what exactly does that mean?

a) Power peaks at 5k rpm and levels off
b) Power peaks at 5k rpm and starts going down

I'm just curious as when i dynoed my 2k2 (albeit, wrong gear) HP peaked at 5400rpm, remained constant until 6400rpm, spiked a bit and dropped at 6500rpm (limiter).

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

It peaks, levels off, and then close to 6000rpms it starts dropping:
http://www.greghome.com/images/Maxim...2Max_Dyno3.jpg

soundmike

iTrader: (24)

Interesting, mine shows different.

http://www.rootaxs.com/soundmikedyno.gif

Could it be because it was run in the wrong gear? (2nd instead of 3rd for an auto)

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

Wrong gear, STD vs. SAE, and AUTO vs. 6-speed.

I don't know, too many variables and I'm DEFINITELY not the expert on reading dynos. My statement was based on my recollection of a typical 2K2 6-speed dyno.

soundmike

iTrader: (24)

I don't think correction should affect it. 6spd vs. Auto, it seems Emax95's dyno plot also had a similar effect as mine (pulled all the way to redline)

Hmm...

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

Yeah, he and a lucky few call that "top end breathers" or something. I'm still questioning that it's not just dyno error.

woosh

So does the 2K/2K1 peak at 5000rpms?

If so, would Ian's ME manifold technique increase the peak point?

AznWontonboy

nope, the 5th gens (2k-2k1) have the intake runners that kept making horsepower all the way up to redline.

dmbmaxima2k2

iTrader: (1)

95-99 VQ30DE power to about 5600rpms levels and drops
2000-2001 VQ30DE-K variable intake switches around 5k and hold power to redline
2k2 VQ35DE Variable runner switches around 3800rpms hold power to about 5900rpms.

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

Steve,

What were your traps on those back-to-back 14.3 runs?

Thanks.

WILLSE

look at my dyno chart http://members.cardomain.com/willse2002 if thats not making power to redline than i dont know what is! if u get intake and free up components in ur exhuast ur car will pull to red line on the 2k2s at least!

will

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

What's up with that dyno? First, the HP and TQ lines don't cross at 5250 rpms(HP = TQ x 5250/RPMs) Second, the breaks in the lines at 3900-4000 and 5700-6200. Third, the HP curve STOPS at 5700-5800 rpms and then it looks like a rev limiter bounce is recorded.

However, the dyno STILL levels off from 4700 rpms with a rise at about 5250 compared to the 2K-2K1s, which pull consistently and with the SAME SLOPE till 6400.

I'm NOT knocking your 2K2, it CLEARLY makes some serious numbers. If you were to pull from 5700-6400 the same way you went from 4000-4800, you would be closer to 245+hp with your mods, but that's also where the torque starts droping FAST.

Did you get a file with the RAW data or only the graph? I'd like to extrapolate to see what you would have got.

dmbmaxima2k2

iTrader: (1)

94+mphs. the traps were low but other people got 99's around the same times. i think it was because i was nervous and shifted early 6200rpms and my LOW LOW 60foot times 2.16 and 2.17

-steve

Maxima06071

That's why all the advertisements for the 2000 maxima said "engine rated Top ten seven years running" or something like that. which makes sense sorta.....

ru4real

iTrader: (3)

Doesn't anybody remember the discussions about the VQ33DE possibility?
I used "Search" (, the horror!) and found these:

Engine part swaps ==> VQ33D ... woohoo!

Interesting "stroking" thread - hehe

There also was a sticky or important thread that detailed the dimensional differences between the VQ30 and VQ35, but somebody hid it under a rock somewhere.

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

Like I said, I can't believe I didn't know that.

Anyways, ONLY 5th gens. really exist in my little world. I have a hard enough time keeping up on all 5th gen. info, let alone, for multiple gens. that I don't even own.

Learned something new.

Anachronism

The head (I think) on the 5th gen VQ is different so no easy upgrade for us 4th gen guys --- until now

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

THANK YOU!

That first thread ROCKS!

Any idea where is Part 2? It seems to have died or went to another thread that the link doesn't work for. Any idea?

Screw the Frankenstein motor idea, just give me a VQ33DE-K!

Max_Gator

On the DE-K the variable intake switchover doesn't hold power, it increases it substantially - 25hp to the wheels difference or so. When my variable intake was not working, peak hp was at 5k and then it leveled off and began to decline when it got to redline.

As far as I know, the 2k2 uses the same variable intake. It just may be that the tuning effect of the switchover is not as great on the 3.5 as it is on the 3.0.

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

I agree.

I would also like to know from someone with a 2K2 FSM, if the 2K2 uses the same VIAS type system for the intake long-to-short runner at 5Krpm switchover.

DAVEB

iTrader: (133)

They are totally different. While the '00-'01 has the VIAS built into that funky plastic upper intake, the '02 has an aluminum upper that has a removeable, external valve that switches between the two stages. I guess the function is the same, but the execution is way diff.

Max_Gator

Yeah, probably because they figured out that when the internal valves broke there was no way to fix them.

Not that they would ever even admit its possible let alone fix it without hassle!!

Are you saying that if you opened up the 2k2 intake plenum, you'd be able to actually see the butterflys?

PrinzII

iTrader: (2)

Wrong....

VG30DE; 3rd Gen Max Motor (2V, 160hp)(SE 1989-91, GXE 1989-1994)
VE30DE; 3rd Gen Max Motor (4V, 190hp)(SE 1992-94)
VQ30DE; 4th Gen (4V, 190hp)(1995-1999)
VQ30DE; 5th Gen (4V, 222hp)(2000-2001)
VQ35DE; 5th Gen (4V, 255hp)(2002)

I owned a Max with a VG30DE before my 2k2.

Rob'sAE

You forgot:

VQ30DE; 5th Gen (4V, 227 hp) (2001)

Rob'sAE

speaking of which, has anyone every figured out if nissan was just BS'ing AE owners about the "EXTRA" 5hp or if it is really there. If it is there where are the 5 extra ponies coming from?

DAVEB

iTrader: (133)

The valve bolts to the RH side of the upper plenum. You can even see the butterfly flap in the parts illusration. Looks very easy to sevice/diagnose! Pity the '00-'01

MAX2000JP

Out of curiosity....How much does a 2k-2k1 Upper Plenum cost???