soundmike

iTrader: (24)

Redbird over at the X posted the Dyno graph of his 2k2 Alt and I thought it looked awefully familiar.

Upon a closer look it seemed similar to th 6spd Max's. I decided to make an overlay of both graphs for an unofficial comparison.

Just thought this was a rather interesting graph:


Now, i'm not saying that Nissan is overrating/underrating the power specs but could this similarity in performance #'s be due to the (allegedly) higher drivetrain loss on the 6spd tranny?

SmokinOdum

Id like to know how they got the better top end

soundmike

iTrader: (24)

That seems to be what Emax was saying all along, some VQ's breath a bit better up there while some don't. If it happens on our Max's i'm sure some Alt V6's have the same problem as well.

Y2KevSE

iTrader: (13)

Alty top end is better.

AznWontonboy

2k-2k1 Top end is better

Y2KevSE

iTrader: (13)

KaxMaxSEAE

It's probably unfair to come to any conclusions with only a two car sample, but could it be that (gasp) Nissan fudged some numbers so Max sales wouldn't toilet farther than they expected them to?

On the other hand, if altima (a newer design) has fewer parasitic losses than the max (not only the 5sp vs. the 6sp, but in other driveline components too,) then they could put out a lower hp rated engine, but get the same hp at the wheels.

We need more samples.

ssiperko

Seems to pull a little longer on top >>> possibly exhaust differances?
l8tr -- SS

dwapenyi

iTrader: (3)

The 6 speed tranny is not as efficient as the 5 speed tranny. Maybe 2K2 Max guys should look into swapping Altima 5 speed trannies into their car.


DW

soundmike

iTrader: (24)

I know, but just based on these two graph's it's quite interesting to see how similar the performance is between them.

If someone with a 2k2 Pathfinder could dyno their car as well i have a feeling we'd find close (if not similar) results.

The Pathfinder seems to be "marketed" as having 265tq which as i figure seems to be the fact with the 2k2 Max's as well (based on dyno). I could, however be wrong - so take this with a grain of salt.

To add to the "conspiracy theory", this is what i also figured:

Nissan Spec (per datasheet)
Altima - 240hp @ 5800rpm / 246tq @ 4400rpm
Maxima - 255hp @ 5800rpm / 246tq @ 4400rpm
Pathfinder - 240 @ 6000rpm / 265 @ 3200rpm

You'd think they'd be fairly accurate. But if you look at the dyno's so far TQ is way up there and HP is relatively the same from car to car (or SUV?).

Additionally, peak TQ and HP is achieved before the supposedly specified rpm range.

Peak TQ is achieved @ around 2700 - 3500rpm
Peak HP is achieved @ around 4700 - 5600rpm (lower gap for some VQ's - e.g. high rpm hard-breathers)

Is Nissan playing the numbers game on us?

dwapenyi

iTrader: (3)

Don't think it's a numbers game, just the same engine being tweaked for different applications. In the Altima, make it powerful, but don't step on the flagship Maxima. In the Maxima, make it the most powerful FWD. In the Pathfinder, make it torquey for AWD off roading. In the 350Z, go ALL out with the VQ35. IN the G35 and G35 Coupe, make it badass, but ultimately leave the 350Z as king.

Same with the Corvette and Camaro V8. Same motors. Chevy/GM will not let the Camaro outshine the king corvette.

DW

soundmike

iTrader: (24)

I'm just stating the fact that if the Max has 246lb.ft of TQ shouldn't the dyno show it as having less output than the 255HP the max is rated at?

Just looking at the dyno "seems" to show that it has higher than 246lb.ft of TQ at the crank. If factoring in the same % of loss for HP you theoretically come up to the 260+ lb.ft. of TQ range.

As far as HP goes, Max 255, Alt 240... the transmission may be the culprit. I guess the best way to compare it is with 4spd Auto's from both the Max and Alt camp.

dwapenyi

iTrader: (3)

Yeah, an auto comparison would be more fair, since they'll each have the same exact tranny.

I see what you're getting at with the TQ numbers, but then, I don't know how efficiency relates to HP or TQ. If we had an equation which shows the relationship, then we could better understand why those dynos are the way they are.

DW

AltyPaul

Looks like the Maxima has better midrange.

Keven97SE

I see no significant differences between the two motor dynos. None at all. The slight increase in midrange torque on the Maxima motor and the slight increase in top-end torque on the Altima are well within motor-to-motor and run-to-run differences you might expect to see on the same motor.

These two motors are EXACTLY THE SAME.

soundmike

iTrader: (24)

Exactly! So where's the supposedly 15hp advantage on the Max? *dum dum dum dum duuummm!*

Keven97SE

The advantage is CLEAR....


...LY labeled on the window sticker of the Maxima!

That's it.

Dave B

I had been saying the Altima and Max VQs are the exact same motors ever since both these came out last year and I recieved a bunch of crap for this too from the Maxima elite. Now everyone believes they are in fact the same motors. What's up with that? I really doubt the extra cog in the 6 speed is going to reduce power that much. One thing to consider is if these cars were run on the same dyno and on the same day. It does make a difference. I'd bet that the Maxima and Altima make roughly the same power if tested on the same machine. Both cars are capable of mid 14s in stock form and even low 14s under the right conditions.


Dave