Was I supposed to take the air temp sensor and drill a hole to screw it into the plastic piece attached to the filter?

Right now it's just sitting where it was placed .. that hood scoop which is absolutely useless ...

 

I thought u want to keep the air scoop for the cold air sensor. keep it in there.

 

Take off the scoop and zip tie the sensor to something.

 

Tkx guys!

 

Hmmmm. If you zip tie the sensor to something inside the engine bay, you'll be removing it from the fresh air stream provided by the air scoop and exposing it directly to heat soak from the engine. The sensor will then send a false reading to the ECU telling it that the intake air temperature is much higher than it is in reality. Is that a good idea?



I wonder if we'd actually be better off leaving the sensor in the air scoop and sealing up the back end of the scoop to prevent engine heat from contaminating the sensor. Does that make sense?

 

very good point and u are absolutley correct as well, it would be a very smart idea to just leave the scoop in, it doesnt hurt anything...

 

Leave that sensor there!!

 

As far as I know, the temperature sensor does not contribute to the operation of the engine but is only used for diagnostic purposes (as per the ESM). Therefore it really doesn't matter where it's placed (at least for engine optimization/operation purposes).

 

I've also heard this but haven't verified it in the ESM yet. Once the car starts moving, air flow into the engine bay will cool down the sensor (same idea as intake air). Wouldn't this be the same as if you left the sensor in the scoop (this is not a question)? Hehehe

If things stay heat soaked, underhood intakes would be useless.

 

I concur with your rhetorical question . Once the airbox is removed the temperature sensor is exposed to the hot engine air even if it remains in the scoop.

 

Right . . . hence my idea about sealing up the back of the scoop to prevent heat from contaminating the sensor. Keep in mind that when the OEM air box is attached to the scoop, the sensor is not subject to heat soak at all.

I don't know if having the sensor in a semi-enclosed housing (aka, the air scoop) helps prevent it from becoming heat soaked. But whether or not that's the case, there's really no good reason to remove the air scoop and relocate the sensor. So for me it's a moot point.

Also, I understand that the sensor does provide information to the ECU that the ECU uses to adjust air/fuel ratios. If that's the case, heat soaking the sensor may adversely affect engine performance. (BTW, I just got off the phone with Dave Burnette and he's of the same opinion.)

BUT WAIT! We're not through yet.

Consider this. You want the sensor to read the actual air temperature entering the intake. If you isolate the sensor from engine heat and expose the air filter to engine heat, the sensor may actually send temperature information to the ECU that's lower than the air temperature entering the throttle body. What affect might that have on A/F ratios?

Are we having fun yet?

 

I'm always having fun.

As per the ESM (I wish I had it in front of me so that I could scan the page...I loaned it to Max_Gator to diagnose the VIAS problem) the temperature sensor plays no part in the air/fuel calculations but is only used for diagnostic purposes. This is the basis of my assertion. If that's incorrect (the ESM) or if I read it incorrectly then I stand corrected.

 

OK. Here's what the ESM says:

--------------------------------------------------------------------

DTC P0110 INTAKE AIR TEMPERATURE SENSOR

Component Description:

The intake air temperature sensor is mounted to the air duct housing. The sensor detects intake air temperature and transmits a signal to the ECM.

The temperature sensing unit uses a thermistor which is sensitive to the change in temperature. Electrical resistance of the thermistor decreases in response to the temperature rise.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Unfortunately, the ESM does not indicate what the ECM does with the signal it receives from the sensor.

 

Keep searching...it's in there.

 

I'm looking . . . I'm looking. . .

 

All right. The ESM goes on to say:

------------------------------------------------------------------
On Board Diagnosis Logic

Malfunction is detected when:

(Malfunction A) an excessively low or high voltage from the sensor is sent to ECM,

(Malfunction B) rationally incorrect voltage from the sensor is sent to ECM, compared with the voltage signal from engine coolant temperature sensor.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Now I suppose you could infer from this that the sensor is used only to provide diagnostic data. But the problem is that the ESM is just that, a Service Manual, not an Operations Manual. It doesn't care what function the sensor actually performs or how the ECM uses the data it collects from it. The only thing a Service Manual cares about is how to fix the sensor and/or it's affected components when an error is generated. So unless you've got something else you can refer me to, I'm just not prepared to conclude that the Service Manual addresses the operational aspects of the sensor and its affected components, especially in light of this article:

http://www.autoshop101.com/forms/h32.pdf

I've looked through the rest of the section and I can't find anything else that speaks to this. Let me know if you've got something else you can refer me to, 2K2DEMAX. Thanks.

 

yes it does contribute to engine operation, a simple explanation of this is that cold air is denser then hot air, so if he air temp sensor senses that hot air is goin into the engine, the injecters are goin to throw in slightly less fuel, since hot air isnt as dense as hot air, also when the sensor picks up cold air, the injecters dump in more fuel in balance things out, but if the sensor it left unpluged, the injectors are gonna be blind as to how dense the air is, so they will just dump in the max ammount that cold air would need, so it creates slightly more power, but the check engine light will go on, trust me i know, it makes a small diff in power, so people dont go unplugging these things and calling it a mod....

 

So if I understand what you're saying, 2K1HoMax, you want the air temp sensor to remain as cold as possible in order to force the fuel injectors to inject the maximum amount of fuel possible into the the cylinders. That would mean that you DO NOT want to expose the sensor to heat soak from the engine, correct?

 

Not necessarly, u see the sensor is placed in a path at which air flow is constant, and the air flowin threw the tube will keep in a cool enough environment, the sensor basically picks up 99% of the info it needs while that air is flowin threw it, but when the engine is at idle, (redlight, ect...) its a diff story, thats why say 99%, but when the car is moving say about 30mph the sensor wont be able to pick up the engines temp due to the fact that outside air blows away the engines heat, as well as the sensor being completly isolated from the rest of the engine. so the heat from the engine will effect the sensors reading only at idle at which we dont really car about its power at idle anyway. but if the sensor is placed in a cold only environment, while its hot out, its goin to run slighly rich, but if its cold out and the sensor is in a hot environment, (anywhere out of the tube which would expose it to the engines heat) its will make the engine run somewhat lean, causing your engine to produce less power, so i personally would either leave it in the tube, or just place it in a cooler inside my car (damn explantions take too long, why am i so technical )

 

Well I was thinking the same thing, except I was trying to figure out a way to pack some dry ice into the front of the air scoop.

Seriously, I agree with you that we're just as well off leaving the scoop in place and keeping the sensor in the scoop. Thanks for the info.

 

well.....to tell u the truth, instead of trying to cool the thing, i found a slightly better way, if u want it to just dump in the amount of fuel it does when it senses dense air, u can just unplug the thing. yeah for some reason instead of makin it run lean, it does the opposite and make the injectors spray the way they would if the air was cold/dense, the only down side is that the service engine light goes on, but it will go off once u plug it back in, and store the problem as a memory code, which i have the computer to reset whenver i want. but it goes off within a few hrs of driving, of a day or two topps (i found out the hard way ) but im personally just leaving mine alone, im not gonna risk nothing for couple of hp.

 

Roger that.

 

What is the purpose of O2 sensors?

 

http://www.forparts.com/o-2.htm

So it appears as if several systems impact on A/F ratios, Kev.

 

We've had this discussion before.

Air temp Sensor is used to send info to ECM. How and Why ?

Air Temp vs MAF's reading of actual air coming in calculates actual "density" of air being ingested, and along those lines is the correct mixture of fuel added to the air, and once combusted the o2 picks up wether the A/F Ratio is rich, lean or stoich, and adjust accordingly w/ timing changes and injector pulse width changes, which I will not go into.
Amazing what you learn reprogramming the 5th Gen ECU. Yeah, read the sig.

 

OH those things.....i know, i think they are there for only one reason and one reason only. thats to make your service engine soon light go on, dont know why the max has 4 of them one above the pre-cat in the front of the car, one directly below it, same with the other side of the engine, but the y-pipe got ride or that pre-cat, but the front one is still there, . i kinda worked a way around it, but i bet i cant pass emissons now, but i still hate that damn light.

 

im still waitin on that reprogramable ecu of yours. i want that thing.

 

Thank one of my friends who told me about it. I just hounded the manufacturer in Japan for it, just to test and see what happens.
Just remember depending on project goals w/ your car, you will be spending ALOT of time on a dyno, testing and tuning. This isn't some G-Force ECU, you just slap in, and run. This system allows full tailoring of every mod on your car, so everything works as a "system", and not just "mods."

 

Is it similar to The PROgram Piggyback ECU/UNICHIP, Chimp Dj?

(See http://www.theracersgroup.com/theprogram_unichip.html.)

 

damn, now that can be a problem, u see i dont have remot access to a dyno, dont even know where one is around here to tell u the truth. even if i find one, repeated tests are going to be way too costly. unless i buy a dyno but those things cost as much as a new car.

 

Please note sarcasm when I posted about O2 sensors.

 

I figured it had to have been sarcasm ... a guy with your knowledge of Maxima's should know quite well what O2 sensors are for

 

IT'S NOT A PIGGYBACK ECU. This system is similar to AEM's EMS.
True programmable ECU, there is software to program the ECU, you will need several hours on the dyno to fully realize the car's potential.

Kev has been shown the system, so enough w/ emails about it doesn't exist.

-Peace

 

Easy does it, Chimp Dj. I never suggested it doesn't exist.

I checked out the AEM EMS at http://www.lightningmotorsports.com/aemems.htm. That system appears to completely replace the OEM ECU. So I'm assuming that the Programmable ECU you're referring to does the same thing.

Also, Lightning Motorsports sells the AEM EMS for $1400. Is that approximately what the Programmable ECU will sell for? Or has a price for the Programmable ECU been established yet?

 

It's not you, I have "fans"(Maxtor, and others) on the forum.

Yes, it replaces the OEM ECU, pricing has not been 100% established. The manufacturer sells ECU/software + accessories needed, it will not be more than the AEM EMS, though. I will have better idea after mid June. Too close to getting license back, and don't wanna take the drive to dyno test and tune.

 

Hmmmm. I'm not sure if I want to become one of your "fans" then.

I'll stand by for more info . . .

 

yes kev i know u were being sarcastic, thats why my reply was they are there to make ur ses light go on, and not the real purpose of them. but im pretty sure u know that