i•maxx

Maxima moves up in upgradable equipment and price changes as well.
Quoted from the NAAS auto show, "The Maxima goes on sale in March, with prices expected to range from $28,000 to $34,000".

92drexel

I'm wondering what the 34k will get you, is that fully loaded including elite package and navi? Since the '03 max is $32k including navi, it's probably a 2k increase. We'll see. I wish Nissan announced the pricing at the debut like they did with the Z last year.

rubman

Nissan N.A. smoking crack again. It's a hideous looking Wannabe Saturn, with a 255FWD hp, worst of all MADE IN THE U.S.A. FOR $34k, what's up with that? I'll pay the 5th Genner Max. off and look at the G35 Coupe or a 330CI.

Mr. Nismo

iTrader: (36)

Infiniti is the way to go. 260hp on a front wheel drive is like having a V8 that's front wheel drive. YUK!

SteVTEC

The Honda Accord is built in the US.
The Honda Civic is built in the US.
The Toyota Camry is built in the US.
The Toyota Corolla is built in the US.

Just because something is built in the US does not automatically mean that it sucks.


Are the above mentioned cars known to be problematic pieces of crap?



MOST of the problems that you see on cars today are DESIGN ISSUES, and have absolutely NOTHING to do with WHERE it was built or WHO put it together. Why is it that people only think about where a car is built? Do they not realize that hundreds of ENGINEERS are the people that actually designed the cars and specified parts, and that THEY are the ones responsible for most of the design issues and problems with a car?



SIGH!...........

Quicksilver

iTrader: (1)

Amen to that!

swallac2

Your 100% right. I've seen too much Made in USA bashing around here. Most American's take pride in there work and in recent surveys it has been shown that American's work more than any other population in the world. We displaced Japan for that spot a few years back. Also both GM and Ford beat Nissan in "Average Problems per Vehicle" http://www.detnews.com/2002/autosins.../a01-38029.htm Within the next 5 years you will see GM get extremely close to Honda and Toyota.

RF951

I'm gonna bet that the G35 goes up a bunch in price now. There seems to be a lot of demand for the car. That would make the Max appear more reasonable. Of course I could be completely wrong....

joaquink

You have to watch those numbers. Raw stats can be misleading. The most recent JD Power survey actually did put GM ahead of Toyota but you should ask why. The redesigned Camry casued Toyota to drop and the number one complaint for the Camry was a poor fitting interior trim piece. That goes down in the same category as if your engine blew up - defective. Toyota has since redesigned the piece and application method and expects no further problems. My personal experience with all things GM is that if you're not talking about 2k+ C5 or one of their large trucks, you're dealing with transmission, electrical and engine problems. I'd rather have issues with a poorly fitted interior piece.

maximachad

Amen to THAT!

blbrizzi

Not only that, but the article was regarding problems reported within the first 90 days. Generally, reliability isn't established in just 90 days of owning a car. It's also possible Nissan owners have come to expect more of their vehicles than the average consumer, therefore they may have more to complain about because of the higher expectation.

Brent

SteVTEC

...because an ENGINEER screwed up and didn't design it so that it would fit properly, thus causing problems for the people that actually build it.

Redesign = ENGINEERing problem.

The people that build the cars put them together how the ENGINEERs tell them to. If it ain't working right, it's not the guy on the assembly line's fault, now is it.

joaquink

I'm going to have to disagree with you here. There is a significant difference between the union and non-union shops. None of the foreign-owned factories are unionized (yet) and neither is Saturn. Say what you will about the Saturn brand but the cars are continually well rated for reliability and owner satisfaction. My girlfriend's uncle worked through the tumultuous labor wars of the late 70s and early 80s in detroit. He was telling us how they would put marbles in the truck frames to sabotage production.

American workers can assemble well-made vehicles - that's not the issue. The issue is the entitlement culture, lack of incentive to improve and so forth that makes the unionized shops tend to produce at a lower level of quality and efficiency than their non-union counterparts.

Engineering is a part of the problem but not the entire problem. That is, why can't GM, Ford, even Daimler-Chrysler, match the efficiency of Honda, Toyota and Nissan factories here in the USA? There are primary differences in management, compensation and labor relations and, in my humble opinion, the root of those differences lies in the fact that the "American" brands are union shops.

The nissan issues with tactile quality of plastics for the Altima stem from the procurement process rather than assembly or engineering. Finance cut costs with "cheap" plastics and there's nothing engineering, assembly and operations management can do about that.

SteVTEC

I agree with you on labor issues with American cars. GM can't and never will produce a quality product. They have to dump every penny they have into paying their unions and their pension funds.

If you have cheap materials in a car, it's because the finance people wouldn't let the engineers use better parts.

If you have a poor design and a part that just doesn't fit right and it's like that on just about every other car, it's because the engineer didn't design it right.

If you have a part that is misaligned or even falls off and it's not a problem on any other car, then that is finally an assembly-line issue directly.

vito1281

With the new pricing, it seems to me like the Max may no longer hold the title of the "Best Bang for the Buck". In the low 30's, you can now get a G35, and with an introduction of the 6sp on the sedan in the spring, I don't see a reason for MOST people to buy the Max when they can get a G35 for a couple g's more.

It seems like the Max most of us have come to know is no longer the same. Nissan is shifting gears, and making the Maxima more of a luxury car, with a more refined ride, rather than keeping it as a sports "family" sedan. Looks like the Altima will be filling in Maxima's spot as the affordable, sporty, family sedan.

TcobrA

If you want more bang -- get an '03 Cobra

95bluse

iTrader: (1)

Depends on what "bang" you mean. Maybe the sound of the parts falling off your Ford ? . Looks like you spent >$34G's to get that "muscle" car faster than a Max.
BTW, stock for stock I can beat any 'stang less than the Cobra which has a bigger engine & 2 less doors.

P.S I know you're a troll, I just couldn't resist it

Welcome to the org, stick around, maybe you can learn a thing or two

TcobrA

Well, nothing's fallen off the 5 fords I own. So?
Perhaps we can teach one another a thing or two.

The list:
1988 Mustang LX -- 347 stroker, GT40 heads, Paxton motivated, NOS (mildly) sprayed, 4.10 gears, spooled, tubbed, big Mickeys -- 685 wheel hp
1994 Taurus SHO -- chipped, K&Ned, and ported
1996 Winstar -- ported and bored -- 245 wheel HP (A parts chaiser)
1998 Mustang GT -- Paxton-Novi, Chipped, T5 w Pro5, 3.90 gears -- project car #1
2003 SVT Mustang Cobra -- WIP -- UPR Venom Kit, Bassani cat-back, Steeda Triax Shifter - more to come.. project car #2

AND

1964 Dodge Polara Max Wedge -- trailer queen

The only one that breaks from time to time is the Dodge, a factory built race car -- finicky........

You CAN get a bunch of power out of smaller engines, however it is usually at the cost of longevity. I am wondering how long my son's WRX will go (2002), but his mods are mostly cosmetic.

Maxima are ok in my book. I just don't care much for the euro tails I see all over the place. Then again, I don't like them an any car. To each his own, I suppose.

My brothers and father have some imports:
Audi S4 (Bro. Mike)
Audi A6(Bro. Mike)
BMW M3(Bro. Mike)
BMW M5 (I think it's a 2000, I have to ask the old man)
BMW M Coupe (the old man)
1984 Nissan 300 whatever (Bro. John)
2002 Maxima (Bro. John)
198? Mazda RX-7 (Bro. John)

But John also has a bunch of muscle cars and is a partner in an SVT dealership down south.

I've driven 'em all -- I still like my Fords -- perhaps there is too much lead in the water up here.

Peace, and enjoy your ride, and my tail lights

eternalmaxima

eternalmaxima

sorry bout that this is what I said....I used to drive fords.....I had a Stang 99 5.0...& Explorer....but I was beginning to get too close to my mechanic. I saw him more than the open road... remember Fix Or Repair Daily

TcobrA

I guess you're just unlucky then. My brother Mike has used the BMW RSA more than I have ever used the Ford RSA.... and mt son's WRX is on tranny number TWO (but that MAY be his fault)...... so I don't know--- but you WILL see my tail lights -- I'll use the Winstar to make it even...........

SteVTEC

Why is it that anybody that has owned a domestic and got mad because it fell apart on them are always "unlucky"?






If people that have bad experiences with domestic cars are just "unlucky" then why is it that DOMESTIC manufactures flat out DOMINATE the below average half of the rankings?

Quicksilver

iTrader: (1)

Must have been awfully tough getting that 5.0L V8 in the '99 model Mustang GT since they had a 0 production run.

TcobrA

And I said this where? Learn to read:
The 1988 LX HAD a 5.0 that was stroked and bored to 347.
The 1998 GT has a 4.6 Mod engine SOHC heads.
As for a 5.0 -- you can get them in crates if you want them. I think the 4.6 mod is a better engine.

Now where did I place a 5.0 in a 99 model???

Oops, sorry that '99 5.0 was someones add on. Sorry Quicksilver, I guess I need new glasses. These bifocals are killing me!

And regarding the earlier post with J.D. Power charts, look closely:
Mercury, Lincoln, and Jaguar are FORD divisions. Jaguar reliability increased SIGNIFICANTLY since the aquisition. The Big 3 US manufacturers put out a lot of cars and a lot of models. With a bigger percentage of the total number of models, I would expect a bit of a squew in the numbers.

SteVTEC

Honda and Toyota sell a ZILLION cars per year too. So why are they at the top of the list, and then why is FORD at the bottom?



Because FORD's, in general, are not nearly as reliable as Japanese imports. If your Ford breaks down and falls apart on you it's NOT because you're unlucky. It's because it wasn't designed and built as well as the equivalent Japanese cars. Even Ford has openly admitted in trade publications that their tranny's are not as durable as they'd like them to be and they're trying to improve them for future models.

fearthegecko

my first car was a 93 ford tempo...and for as much **** that i got for driving it, it was damn near unstoppable. The only time i got stuck in snow was when i purposely drove it into a 6-foot snowbank. On ice, i was passing 4WD SUVs. And with the exception of the 15 or so balljoints i had replaced, and the motor mount i had to replace because i kept neutral-dropping it, the car was good.

TcobrA

J.D. Power reflects OUR domestic market. There are no such surveys over seas. Ford, for instance, is very popular in Europe. The Focus is a European-market design that has been quite successful over seas. There is always some kind perception problem with any product. Until someone does an all-market study of satisfaction, it's tough to say what is realy reliable. I love my Honda snow blower and generator. They are very reliable. I don't like the cars because they are not my type of car.
As for durable trannys, no engineer ever thinks his design is good enough and looks for ways to improve: American, German, or Japanese. Do you think the East Germans were proud of the Trabat, or the French of the Renault le Car, or the Japanese of the rusts-in-one-year late 70's and early 80's Corrola? At present there is talk of a possible tranny recall on some BMW M Coupes (even the Ultimate Driving Machine sometimes has problems). And, let's not talk about fuel delivery problems in some Toyota RAV4s.
Bottom line is some people vote Democrat because their Dad did, and his Dad did before him, and so on and so on, without ever realy knowing why. Have you, and BE HONEST HERE, driven a Ford Lately?
I will, by the way, still be VERY happy to show you my tail lights.
Peace

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

Consumer Reports don't really give the domestics a good light either. However they are getting better. Plus some JD Powers surveys are consumer satisfaction based not fault or reliablity based.

My family grew up on Fords. I think for the PRICE that they sell them for, they are "okay". But I HONESTLY don't think that something like a Tarus/Sable is up to par to a Camry/Accord/Maxima in terms of quality parts/workmanship/fitment. But the Camry/Accord/Maxima are priced higher also.

I have a 1992 Maxima SE and it's in EXCELLENT condition and has not really received any special car in terms of paint/interior care. At the same time, I have a hard enough time even SEEING a 1992 Ford Tarus much less a Tarus in even decent condition. I know Ford sold a buttload of these cars also.

Highlander

My last non-Nissan was a 1998 Ford Detour - since it was always in the shop - like 7 recalls and at least 4-5 warranty jobs, plus they could never figure out why my air bag light kept flashing - but they certainly wanted to charge me $75 to figure it out when the warranty ran out... Anyway, the car was fun to drive but it sucked... Last Ford I will own for a LOOOONG time..

Next up for me is probably a G35 Sedan... I don't like the look of the front of the new Maxima, and I'd love to have a quick, sporty, 4-door RWD sedan that won't cost me $40+ (like the BMW 330).

TcobrA

A word on resale:
Value at resale is based on many factors. Among these are foremost availibility and popularity, followed by milage, maintenance, and perceived reliability. Based on cars sold, the sited Taurus has an above average reliability rating. However, there have been some problems over the years, namely: head gaskets on some V6 models and AODs on some others. Due to sheer volume, the occurance of these issues seems high. But, there have been and continue to be MANY of these cars out there.
The Camry, for instance, is seen as a reliable car, and by records, it is. However, it seems that when there is a problem, owners of these cars are close-mouthed about it. I have done some chatting with repair shop owners in the area, specialists and generalists alike. It appears the numbers, among this small sample of local NH shops, are pretty even.
The way I see it: buy what you like to drive and drive it with passion. All things man-made break. With knowlege, parts, and tools, you can fix them all. Fortunately I love to twist wrenches. Some of my cars have been painful to work on, some have been fun. Having worked with friends on some Japanese makes, Maximas included, I'd say that most are no too bad to work on, but the parts are expensive. Aftermarket parts are very expensive. A friend just did (October actually) a BPU to his Supra. WOW! EXPENSIVE! All told, and after watching the BJ car auction last week end, he saw, with horror, that he could have had a Ferrari for less than what he's invested in his BPU Supra! BTW, he still has a good view of my tail lights. We will be installing a NOS system in his car this spring.

Peace

SteVTEC

No I haven't actually, but if my Maxima died tomorrow there's a good chance I would be buying a Mazda 6s. Does that count?

You can go ahead and do that and I'll just laugh at you for wasting all of that gas on a lowly 190HP Maxima


Peace.

TcobrA

The Mazda is a decent car. I'd give the Focus a test drive. I'd also have a look at the new Dodge Neon.

It's too bad Mazda doesn't use Wankels in cars other than the RX-7. That's a fun engine.

Right now I'm looking for a 1972 White-on-White Lincoln. Or a 1972 Cadilac Coupe de Ville. Or a 1972 Olds 98 455 LS. I need a Canon-Mobile.

190Hp -- Ok then, I'll show you the Minivan's tail lights!

Peace Brudda

SteVTEC

Don't make me break out my snake-eatin GoPed on ya!!

JimmyH

iTrader: (2)

I am looking forward to the Mazda 6. It looks like they are pickup where Nissan left off with the Maxima (before they pushed it above $30k I mean)

I read today that the new rotary engine isnt a Wankel. Different format with the intake and exhaust moved from the sidewall to the ends.

Forget the hydrocarbons and go for the plain hydrogen, and we may have the perfect, cleanest engine there.

Street Reeper

I know it's blasphemy to say this here, but I would rather have a conservative looking TL over the bubbled up new maxima for that price.

My picks for great deals

Dodge neon SRT-4

03 Cobra

Subaru WRX

About reliability issues. A camaro and mustange are going to be driven much differently than a camry. Also, if you have an engine that is about as strong as a sewing machine obviously your car will last longer, but if you have a car with close to 300hp than things are going to break.

Modify a reliable import to run with camaroes, and you will have a new unreliable car.

my .02

AltyPaul

I had a 86 Ford Tempo. It was the biggest POS I've ever had. The tranny broke with about 80K on it. The dealer told me a plastic part in the tranny broke. We had a few Ford Trucks, '76 and '85. They were fairly unreliable. I did like the '85 F250 with the stump pulling 460 under the hood though. It actually had 2 gas tanks to feed the beast. Major fuel and electrical problems on both trucks though. My wife's 2000 Taurus is pretty solid though. Ford has definitely improved over the past 20 years. I still wouldn't buy most of them though.

AltyPaul

Actually I think the best bang for the buck is the 03 Mach 1.

JimmyH

iTrader: (2)

Havent driven a Mustang in a while. Last one I did was a 98 GT. 70 miles on the odometer when I took it for a test drive. The dash board rattled like a baby's toy.

I would hope they have improved since then. Considering the demographic they are targeting (with its priority being power, not finesse) I somehow doubt it.

Jimmy

greer

I will say this: If you buy a 34K maxima, when you could have gone G35 coup or sedan you are being hosed or you are very nostalgic for the Maxima.

and that is where the shame comes in, because this car is really the fat ugly sister of the Altima. This car is also very long in length so you maxima purists are going to be very surprised driving this car.

IMHO,this car has turned its back on the core maxima group.

JimmyH

iTrader: (2)

I kind of have to disagree with you, on everything except the price issue. They are making it too expensive for US. Not for everyone.

In comparison to the G35, it is not a fair comparison. The new max is at the upper end of the mid-size spectrum. The G35 is somewhat smaller I think. Even if they are close, you are looking at rear drive versus front drive. People here may thing RWD is the way to go, but for 95% of the buying market, I would suspect, front drive is not what they want. I am a driving enthusiast, and I am not sure I would want rear drive. (still considering though)

And as far a large car handling well, I have two letters for you: S8 (Audi that is.)

Nissan is reaching out to a wider demographic. Of course somebody is going to be displaced. Too often, that means the niche buyers like us.

JimmyH